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MassHavoc

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

I don't know how anyone ever passes a bar to become a lawyer, with the way my head is spinning from all that, you couldn't keep me away from the booze.
 

nana

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="MassHavoc"]I don't know how anyone ever passes a bar to become a lawyer, with the way my head is spinning from all that, you couldn't keep me away from the booze.[/quote]



So... no different than today?
 

PatrickSharpRules

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Take away the title and I'll watch zero NHL games for many many years. I don't see that happening at all though.
 

noon

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="phranchk"]It makes sense, but also the way article 26 is written it sounds like to me that they can still take it to a system arbitrator after the 60 days. If they do that then they can require the player and club to turn over a lot more evidence than they would have otherwise gathered if they have good cause to request it.

Basically it sounds like it would be a long, drawn out legal mess. I really don't think the league would in any way want to go down that road. It would be league suicide if they did.[/quote]



They can take it to the system arbitrator after 60 days. They can take it to the arbitrator in two different ways:



First, as part of the Investigation, they can ask the arbitrator to authorize discovery that may lead to the discovery of admissible evidence of circumvention (i.e. require that certain documents be turned over, such as emails, telephone records, etc.). However, in making its request, there must be "good cause shown" for the arbitrator to permit discovery. What constitutes "good cause" is in the arbitrator's discretion. In this instance, were the league to request it, an arbitrator may permit discovery (but may not). If he did, that would just be part of the investigative process.



Second, if the league, through the discovery process or otherwise, actually discovers new evidence of Circumvention that was not and should not have been known to it 60 days ago, and, after conferring with the involved parties, the parties dispute the allegation of Circumvention, either party can demand arbitration and the system arbitrator will hear the new evidence and make his decision.



The bottom line is that for an arbitrator to hear a league complaint that Hossa's contract constitutes circumvention, the league has to discover new facts that it did not and should not have known 60 days prior.
 

phranchk

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Thank you for your legal expertise.
 

roshinaya

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

I just wish the league would OK the Hossa contract and the rest and be done with it. Just acknowledge they dropped the ball on them, but it's already too late and the Kovalchuk deal was too blatant and something had to be done. And deal with these issues when negotiating the next CBA.
 

fanof19

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

they already ok'd the contract with ALL lawyers when they approved it. Both the NHL and the players association. Unless the Hawks are looking to dump the contract, who is going to make a stink of it? Who would be next? Zetterberg?
 

Guest

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Probably Pronger but I don't think they have any stance on the other contracts.



If they did it would be a huge mistake for the NHL to even push the issue at this point.
 

Cornflake

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Out of all this, I hate hearing guys like some of the bloogers over at hockeybuzz who cheer for shite teams like edmonton taking it so far as saying well what about Keith's contract. I'd offer him x amount of dollars.



Gotta be sad that your teams suck so bad that you have to wish for this stuff to come true. While Hossa is involved, I don't wish this on any franchise or player. I actually don't like that Kovy wasn't signed since I figure it's the nhl's fault for not thinking that gm's will think of ways around a cap.



Oh well. lol
 

bri

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Re: Kovie arbitor looking at Hossa's contract.

[quote name="roshinaya"]



I hope you are right, and not looking at some old CBA ;)[/quote]





Hun, he's a lawyer and not a creepy sleezy one like that guy at the end of TMZ. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.
 

bookjones

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Cornflake"]Out of all this, I hate hearing guys like some of the bloogers over at hockeybuzz who cheer for shite teams like edmonton taking it so far as saying well what about Keith's contract. I'd offer him x amount of dollars.



Gotta be sad that your teams suck so bad that you have to wish for this stuff to come true. While Hossa is involved, I don't wish this on any franchise or player. I actually don't like that Kovy wasn't signed since I figure it's the nhl's fault for not thinking that gm's will think of ways around a cap.



Oh well. lol[/quote]



You know how folks can be. . .



2jb3bzd.jpg






Eff 'em! :D
 

EspoForever

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="winos5"]http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1262977



http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devi..._4wqFiOx6WIW0ufCLOEupKJ?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=



Wouldn't the NHL have to address each individual contract, thereby giving Hossa and the NHLPA an arbitration hearing? Is addressing these additional contracts outside the role of his arbitration between Kovie/NHLPA and the NHL?



Given the Hossa's contract stood for a season, isn't it a bit late to say it circumvented the cap.



Don't you have to throw Zetterberg's contract into the ring as well?[/quote]



Agreed on all accounts. The arbitrator specifically mentioned Hossa, Pronger and the others but the team that STARTED doing contracts like this was Detoilet and they did not get mentioned??? Something is stinking of curruption there.



I believe the wangs were the first to do a contract of this sort with Zetterberg and they also did one that way with Franzen.



What's more corrupt: the NHL or the Nicaraguan government?
 

bubbleheadchief

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

I thought the DiPietro contract was the first long term, front loaded contract. And if they are going to single out individuals such as Pronger, Hossa, Savard they also need to look at the way the Ovechkin contract is worded too.



Bettman and his front office cronies have no clue as to the pandora's box they have opnened here.
 

roshinaya

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

It could be argued that the Kiprusoff deal was the first one of its kind. It has the last year

@ $1.5m when the previous one was $5m. One could argue that the Zetterberg and Franzén are not looked at as they are not going over the arbitrary 40 year old limit. But as I understand the main problem the League has with these front-loaded contracts are the "dummy" years added that lower the cap, which in this light would also need to include the Detroit contracts.

Personally, I see very little consistency on what the league has done and the consequent rulings to manage these sort of contracts. There doesn't seem to be any specific goal the League is trying to achieve with all this crap. I say the BOG kick out Bettman and let someone with real knowledge run the show ASAP.
 

roshinaya

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]I thought the DiPietro contract was the first long term, front loaded contract.[/quote]



The DiPietro contract is not front-loaded as it pays the same the whole duration of it. It is very long, but that's it.
 

noon

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="EspoForever"]



Agreed on all accounts. The arbitrator specifically mentioned Hossa, Pronger and the others but the team that STARTED doing contracts like this was Detoilet and they did not get mentioned??? Something is stinking of curruption there.



I believe the wangs were the first to do a contract of this sort with Zetterberg and they also did one that way with Franzen.



What's more corrupt: the NHL or the Nicaraguan government?[/quote]



A little perspective on this: It was the NHLPA who raised those contracts in the arbitration. They submitted an Exhibit of eleven contracts, registered by the league, that they claimed were "similar in structure" to Kovalchuk's contract. They submitted the exhibit in an effort to provide evidence that the league was acting inconsistently in having registered those contracts while rejecting Kovalchuk's. The arbitrator singled out "four [of those eleven] agreements . . . [that] reflect provisions that are relatively more dramatic than the others." In rejecting the NHLPA's argument (in a footnote) that these contracts provide evidence that Kovalchuk's contract was inconsistently singled out, the arbitrator stated:
First, while the contracts have, in fact, been registered, their structure has not escaped League notice: those SPC's are being investigated currently with at least the possibility of a subsequent withdrawal of the registration. It is also the case that the figures in Kovalchuk's case are demonstrably more dramatic, including a 17-year term length, a $102,000,000 salary total and precipitous drop that lasts for the final six years of this contract.

This little footnote is the source of all the rumblings. It has been a known fact that Hossa's contract is under investigation -- it has been for about a year. This is not new information and is not a new investigation. Unless the investigation turns up some new facts (again, e.g., say they find an email between Hossa and his agent or the team indicating his intent to retire at age 38 or 39 and so used that as part of the negotiations to fix the point at which the salary would drop but extending the contract until age 42 anyway), the league cannot challenge his contract. Does the possibility of deregistration exist? Yes, because there is an ongoing investigation and that investigation could *possibly* turn up some hitherto unknown facts. That is all the arbitrator said. The media are really not understanding this one. Most media outlets employ lawyers to help them report on the legal aspects of traditional news stories, but it seems the sports media is sorely lacking in this regard.
 

roshinaya

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

I see the usual reporting on voiding contracts and even rescinding the Cup win as just sensationalist reporting and nothing more. Drama sells.
 

Kerfuffle

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Have you ever thought about the flip side of this Hossa contract? i.e. the possible benefits if this contract was scrapped by the league. Assuming the Stanley Cup is still ours and they just void Hossa's contract, would you want to give him a similar deal like that again? Really, think about it. I had a good discussion with some friends today at lunch. They pointed out the benefits if this deal is scrapped - i.e. we get out from under a contract with 11 years remaining on it, we instantly get around $5.6M per year in additional cap room, and the best part is that we already won the cup so do we really still need him now. I hadn't thought of it that way before and always thought Hossa was an untouchable - but if you really think about it, it may not be that bad if somehow his deal was terminated by the league.
 

LordKOTL

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Chalk it up to a mancrush, but I'd love it if Hossa plays out the rest of his years in the Indianhead.



So, no, I'd be upset if it was voided...especially since whatever curse he may have is voided by the Indianhead.
 

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Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]Have you ever thought about the flip side of this Hossa contract? i.e. the possible benefits if this contract was scrapped by the league. Assuming the Stanley Cup is still ours and they just void Hossa's contract, would you want to give him a similar deal like that again? Really, think about it. I had a good discussion with some friends today at lunch. They pointed out the benefits if this deal is scrapped - i.e. we get out from under a contract with 11 years remaining on it, we instantly get around $5.6M per year in additional cap room, and the best part is that we already won the cup so do we really still need him now. I hadn't thought of it that way before and always thought Hossa was an untouchable - but if you really think about it, it may not be that bad if somehow his deal was terminated by the league.[/quote]



You have some pretty dumb friends. Hossa's contract is a cap friendly as you can get. A world-class player such as Hossa for 5.6 million? Why the **** would the Hawks want to be oot from under that? I guess your lunch friends can't figure out that the deal is designed to let Hossa walk away at age 38 or so when the yearly payoots are smaller.



Losing Hossa would be a crippling blow with ZERO upside.
 

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