Which veteran should Derrick Rose study?

[Kerfuffle]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

My buddy Cory is a big Buff fan and that's how we got on the topic today. They were upset over the dismantling of the team or I should say the trading away of their favorite players. You don't have to sell me on Hossa guys - I was advocating for him and made the same points about repeating championships, his value to the team during the playoffs etc. But I confess I'm not the best debater and when it's 5 on 1 it's a little intimidating. They didn't think Hossa was bad - their main argument was that it was better to have a bunch of very good players rather than one stud player and a bunch of names surrounding him (i.e. spend all your money on one guy vs spread it around).

 

[Guest]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Point out to them this little fact.



Toews--6.3 mil



Kane ---6.3 mil



Campbell----7 mil



Keith --- 5.6 mil





Hossa --- 5.25 mil.



And Buff sure doesn't have many "old time Hawk fans" as huge fans primarily because of his HUGE inconsistencies. Most were advocating him gone long ago.

 

[puckjim]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Wisniewski: 3.25 million



Hossa: 5.25 million



BARGAIN!!!

 

[DBQHawkFan]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="R K"]



I'm overly college educated and I've been reading the old CBA for three months.



:clap:[/quote]



The fact that your even trying to read the CBA tells me a lot.

 

[nord]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]their main argument was that it was better to have a bunch of very good players rather than one stud player and a bunch of names surrounding him[/quote]

Their main argument fails.



What are Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, and Campbell, if not very good (or even stud) players? Chopped liver? The Conn Smythe and Norris trophies are pretty much stud territory by definition.

 

[DBQHawkFan]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]My buddy Cory is a big Buff fan and that's how we got on the topic today. They were upset over the dismantling of the team or I should say the trading away of their favorite players. You don't have to sell me on Hossa guys - I was advocating for him and made the same points about repeating championships, his value to the team during the playoffs etc. But I confess I'm not the best debater and when it's 5 on 1 it's a little intimidating. They didn't think Hossa was bad - their main argument was that it was better to have a bunch of very good players rather than one stud player and a bunch of names surrounding him (i.e. spend all your money on one guy vs spread it around).[/quote]



I loved Big Buff's potential. My son loved him because we met him a few times and he was cool to him. I didn't like his inconsitency (especially during the regular season), but I will miss him. Some people had to go and the choices weren't easy. I hope he does great and figures out how to maintain a high level the whole year. Just not against the Hawks.

 

[Pez68]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]My buddy Cory is a big Buff fan and that's how we got on the topic today. They were upset over the dismantling of the team or I should say the trading away of their favorite players. You don't have to sell me on Hossa guys - I was advocating for him and made the same points about repeating championships, his value to the team during the playoffs etc. But I confess I'm not the best debater and when it's 5 on 1 it's a little intimidating. They didn't think Hossa was bad - their main argument was that it was better to have a bunch of very good players rather than one stud player and a bunch of names surrounding him (i.e. spend all your money on one guy vs spread it around).[/quote]



Well, I don't understand how you're getting a "bunch of very good players" for $5.275M per year, but whatever. For that, you're likely getting a very good player($4M+ cap hit) and a slightly above average third liner... As I said, they don't know shit about hockey. When it comes to third and fourth liners, there's not much difference between a guy making 500k per season and a guy making 1M per season....



P.S. For the roles Buf, Versteeg, and Sopel played on this team, they were pretty drastically overpaid.... Paying 3 mil per season for third liners, and paying 2+ mil per season for your #5 defenseman, is pretty much unheard of. The Hawks were lucky that Toews/Kane/Keith/Hjalmarsson were still on very cap friendly contracts last year, and they could afford to do that.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="nord"]

Their main argument fails.



What are Toews, Kane, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, and Campbell, if not very good (or even stud) players? Chopped liver? The Conn Smythe and Norris trophies are pretty much stud territory by definition.[/quote]

They weren't referring to the names you mentioned but rather Skille, Bickell, Stalberg, Dowell, Scott, Hendry, Boynton.

 

[Pez68]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

They weren't referring to the names you mentioned but rather Skille, Bickell, Stalberg, Dowell, Scott, Hendry, Boynton.[/quote]



None of which will need to be superstars on this team.... They will just need to do their jobs, be defensively responsible, and chip in here and there.

 

[Guest]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

They weren't referring to the names you mentioned but rather Skille, Bickell, Stalberg, Dowell, Scott, Hendry, Boynton.[/quote]



Boynton has Two Stanley Cups.



Hendry has One Stanley Cup.



And all the rest have NHL experience. Dowell and Skille would have played here last year if we didn't have so much depth. That kept them off the team.



That argument fails too.

 

[Guest]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Pez68"]



None of which will need to be superstars on this team.... They will just need to do their jobs, be defensively responsible, and chip in here and there.[/quote]



Ding ding ding.



It's because of guys like Hossa that this statement rings so true. Hossa at 5.25 mil, could probably be one of the best values, player contract, in the entire NHL.

 

[Pez68]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="R K"]



Ding ding ding.



It's because of guys like Hossa that this statement rings so true. Hossa at 5.25 mil, could probably be one of the best values, player contract, in the entire NHL.[/quote]



Yep. And Sharp's contract is probably the second best... lol



Btw, I think the Hawks had the absolute best contract in the NHL last year, in Duncan Keith. The Norris winner and top defenseman on the Stanley Cup winning team, made $1.475M last season. :lol: :lol:

 

[noon]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="R K"]Hossa at 5.25 mil, could probably be one of the best values, player contract, in the entire NHL.[/quote]



QFT!

 

[LordKOTL]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Fuffle:

They're thinking about the game wrong. We're weaker without Hossa as a shutdown presence on the PK, a bonafied 2nd line sniper that can break a game open, and someone that can keep just about anyone from muscling him off the puck.



No combination of capspace, or 2nd-tier plaers tht would make up his salary could compensate for that lose and would make our 2nd line and PK a lot weaker.



Oh, and college-educated means little towards overall intellegence. I'm sure everyone on this board knows someone with a higher degree that only got it from parrotting back what the professer fed them, and it shows because they are dumber than a crate of anvils (and I apologize to any crates of anvils that are offended by being compared to a dumb human). After all, are your friends' degrees from the college of hockey operations and team building and was their professor Scotty Bowman? If not, they are likley know more knowledgable than the average fan who has followed the game as long as they have.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="LordKOTL"]

Oh, and college-educated means little towards overall intellegence. I'm sure everyone on this board knows someone with a higher degree that only got it from parrotting back what the professer fed them, and it shows because they are dumber than a crate of anvils (and I apologize to any crates of anvils that are offended by being compared to a dumb human). After all, are your friends' degrees from the college of hockey operations and team building and was their professor Scotty Bowman? If not, they are likley know more knowledgable than the average fan who has followed the game as long as they have.[/quote]

Agreed. My reference to them being college educated was in response to a couple posters asking if they were all stupid, dumb, etc. They are not dumb and all are pretty intelligent guys actually. But all of them are your average hockey fan at best - and not the gurus / diehards on this site. I've had plenty of moments this afternoon thinking to myself "I should have said this, or I should have said that" in response to their challenges.

 

[Tater]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

Not trying to be mean at all, but you should have them register to these forums. You can really learn a lot here even if you only just read.

I know I learn things here daily, even if it's BHP's poop-type each afternoon.

 

[nana]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="LordKOTL"]Fuffle:

They're thinking about the game wrong. We're weaker without Hossa as a shutdown presence on the PK, a bonafied 2nd line sniper that can break a game open, and someone that can keep just about anyone from muscling him off the puck.

No combination of capspace, or 2nd-tier plaers tht would make up his salary could compensate for that lose and would make our 2nd line and PK a lot weaker.



Oh, and college-educated means little towards overall intellegence. I'm sure everyone on this board knows someone with a higher degree that only got it from parrotting back what the professer fed them, and it shows because they are dumber than a crate of anvils (and I apologize to any crates of anvils that are offended by being compared to a dumb human). After all, are your friends' degrees from the college of hockey operations and team building and was their professor Scotty Bowman? If not, they are likley know more knowledgable than the average fan who has followed the game as long as they have.[/quote]



I think that is my favorite thing about him... absolute beast... well that, and he is just such a smart player. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a recent quote from Q about which Hawk does he see becoming a coach some day, and he said Hossa and noted that he is such a student of the game. I think you see that in his influence on Kane and clearly he provides leadership in the room if Q is saying that about him.

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]Have you ever thought about the flip side of this Hossa contract? i.e. the possible benefits if this contract was scrapped by the league. Assuming the Stanley Cup is still ours and they just void Hossa's contract, would you want to give him a similar deal like that again? Really, think about it. I had a good discussion with some friends today at lunch. They pointed out the benefits if this deal is scrapped - i.e. we get out from under a contract with 11 years remaining on it, we instantly get around $5.6M per year in additional cap room, and the best part is that we already won the cup so do we really still need him now. I hadn't thought of it that way before and always thought Hossa was an untouchable - but if you really think about it, it may not be that bad if somehow his deal was terminated by the league.[/quote]



Um, excuse me. I'm due back on planet earth.



-5Minutes

 

[JOVE23]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

[quote name="5Minutes4Fighting"]



Um, excuse me. I'm due back on planet earth.



-5Minutes[/quote]



How was Planet Lovetron?

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

Re: League looking at Hossa's contract....again

LOL. It was fine once i got used to the sunsets.