Who still thinks CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

[FirstTimer]

What a joke. Way to make claims with absolutely nothing more to back them up than the point of '43% is BAD!'

You've summed up your entire posting career here in one sentence.

And, yeah, I "ignored" that "43%." Especially when I broke it down to the 38% from beyond the arc (efficient), and the 45+% from two-point range (efficient).

The fuckign total still is equal to 43%. You can "break it down" any way you want. The overall total is still bad. It'd be like taking the ACT, bragging about getting 25's in Math and Reading but scoring a 19 overall.

Who cares? The big picture sucks and you aren't getting into state.

When you are the type of player who can score in high volume efficiently, do you know what that makes you? - A great scorer.

Ok? Great. Kevin Martin does neither. So he's not great. You've made no point.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

So because Kevin Martin's FG% is slightly below the NBA average, it means that he is an inefficient scorer according to Firsttimer.

And that is despite the fact that his FG% is right along where you would expect it to be at the SG position.

FG% is a bloated statistic that cannot, in itself, show player efficiency.

If Player A averaged 38% from three-point range, and never attempted a two-pointer in his career, that player (by definition) would be an efficient player. And that is despite the fact that his FG% would be 38%.

 

[FirstTimer]

And that is despite the fact that his FG% is right along where you would expect it to be at the SG position.

Yeah, I remember when Iverson was winning scoring titles at 42% people were all "What's the big deal? It's where it should be."

WUT?!

FG% is a bloated statistic that cannot, in itself, show player efficiency.

Yeah so let's throw more shit into the pot and call it TS%!

If Player A averaged 38% from three-point range, and never attempted a two-pointer in his career, that player

Would never see the floor.

What an absolutely Special person example.

Let's just ignore how the actual game ofbasketball is played.

This is like arguing with WearShades more mentally unstable cousin.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Player A is a classic example of a player who could be brought in, in late game situations, when his team needs a three-point basket. Scoring efficiency does not equal scoring ability.

You implied that a player who has a 43% FG% cannot be an efficient scoring player. And I just proved that it is possible for a player to have a 38% FG% and still be an efficient scorer.

And in no way did you prove Martin is an inefficient scorer because that is mathematically impossible.

 

[FirstTimer]

Player A is a classic example of a player who could be brought in, in late game situations, when his team needs a three-point basket.

Player A is a classic example of a player who has never existed.

You implied that a player who has a 43% FG% cannot be an efficient scoring player.

Yes because that player is shooting both shots and actually exists.

And I just proved that it is possible for a player to have a 38% FG% and still be an efficient scorer.

Your player 1. Isn't real. and 2. Doesn't shoot the most important shot in the game in relative terms to scoring based on volume.

You don't see the issue here.

I'd ask that as a question but you're too dumb to get it so I will just state it as fact.

And in no way did you prove Martin is an inefficient scorer because that is mathematically impossible.

Then LOL at you in here trying to use math to show he is.

Are you a fucking moron?

 

[MSOADE54]

Player A is a classic example of a player who has never existed.

Kyle Korver? ... dumbass

 

[FirstTimer]

Kyle Korver? ... dumbass

Odd,

Kyle Korver shoots 2pt FG's.


This mystery player does not.

Try again moron.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Congrats on restating what I said.

Polly want a cracker?



He also gets hurt when he plays more.

Nothing screams "efficient" to me like a guy who the more he plays the worse he shoots and the more he gets hurt.

Yes I would like a cracker. With cheese if you'd be so kind.

Yeah Kevin Martin is injury prone, so is Carlos Boozer and Luol Deng. They also happen to have higher FG% than Kevin Martin. Would you rather have them as your primary offensive options?

Efficiency and durability aren't the same thing.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yes I would like a cracker. With cheese if you'd be so kind.

Cheese is bad for birds.

Yeah Kevin Martin is injury prone, so is Carlos Boozer and Luol Deng.

Ironically enough two of my least favorite Bulls players.

They also happen to have higher FG% than Kevin Martin. Would you rather have them as your primary offensive options?

I'd rather have them all go away.
Forever.
Choosing between them makes my stomach hurt.

Efficiency and durability aren't the same thing.

Tough to be efficient when you aren't on the floor.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

An NBA player who averages 50% from two-point range is equally as efficient at scoring as an NBA player who averages 33% from three-point range.

Kevin Martin's three-point shooting is much greater than the efficiency of even Kevin Garnett's and LaMarcus Aldridge's two-point shooting.

Kevin Martin's two-point shooting is 46.7% which is 1-2% lower than the NBA average two-point percentage and at (or better) than that of cumulative SG's.

Not to mention, Martin's 88% free throw shooting which is 13% higher than the league average.

 

[FirstTimer]

An NBA player who averages 50% from two-point range is equally as efficient at scoring as an NBA player who averages 33% from three-point range.

Bastardization of eFG% another shitty stat!

Horray!

Nice try.

LOL at the continued attempt to make a 43% and oft injured shoot seem efficient.

Rami was "done" with Martin pages agao but continues to defend this steaming pile of a two guard.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Cheese is bad for birds.



Ironically enough two of my least favorite Bulls players.

I'd rather have them all go away.
Forever.
Choosing between them makes my stomach hurt.



Tough to be efficient when you aren't on the floor.

Well I'm clearly not a bird, but you're free to think whatever you want of me.

Sorry to make your stomach hurt. Trade you those cheese and crackers for some pepto bismol.

And I agree, tough to do anything when you're not on the floor except increase your games missed due to injury stat.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Being injured has absolutely nothing to do with shooting efficiency or overall scoring efficiency. You are trying to change the subject from whether or not Martin is an efficient shooter relative to the average NBA player into his injury status.

 

[FirstTimer]

Well I'm clearly not a bird, but you're free to think whatever you want of me.

Whatever Sweet Dee

Sorry to make your stomach hurt. Trade you those cheese and crackers for some pepto bismol.

Alka Seltzer


4 Lyfe

 

[FirstTimer]

Being injured has absolutely nothing to do with shooting efficiency or overall scoring efficiency.

Tell that to Martin who the more he plays the more he gets hurt the worse he shoots.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Whatever Sweet Dee



Alka Seltzer


4 Lyfe

:elephant:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Bastardization of eFG% another shitty stat!

That is a fact-
shooting 33.333% on three's = shooting 50% on two's.

When a player averages 3% better than the league average three-point shooter,

and averages 1-2% worse than the league average two-point shooter,

and averages 13% better than the league average free-throw shooter,

then it is fair to say that player is an efficient scorer, relative to all NBA players, as long as that player isn't putting up a ridiculously high amount of two-point attempts. And not even half of that players' possessions attempting points represent two-point attempts.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kevin Martin's scoring efficiency when shooting three's is just a shade under Dwight Howard's scoring efficiency when shooting two's.

However, Martin only shoots a three-pointer in a mere 28% of the possessions in which he attempts points. 50.5% of Martin's possessions, in which he attempts points, are two-point attempts (in which he shoots about 1-2% lower than the NBA average NBA two-point shooter).

But then you need to also factor in that 20.5% of Martin's possessions, in which he attempts points, come in the form of free-throws (in which he shoots about 13% higher than the average NBA free-throw shooter).

All in all, Martin is definitely a sufficient scorer relative to all NBA players, and a very efficient scorer relative to his position.

Needless to say, when you consider Martin's superb efficiency in terms of free-throw shooting and three-point shooting, and his sufficiency (relative to the league)/efficiency (relative to his position), in terms of two-point scoring, it is extremely impressive that Martin is able to do that despite his high number of total possessions per-game in which he attempts points (relative to all NBA players).

 

[houheffna]

I will have to disagree with FirstTimer on this one...

Martin's level of efficiency is high simply because he scores at a very high level when the clock stops. That and hitting 38% of his three pointers makes him an efficient scorer...

Iverson took more shots, while shooting for a lesser amount from both the 3pt line and the freethrow line...considerably less. Those facts don't measure who the better player is, but it does explain why Martin would be more efficient at scoring.

I would never put Martin at the helm of a franchise, but it would be interesting to see what he could do playing with a superstar. I think Rose and Martin would make for a very interesting duo.

Field goal percentage, like batting average, doesn't tell the whole tale, and its importance is decreasing...that is why OPS is used...TS% is similar to OPS...it combines more statistical averages to get a truer gauge of scoring efficiency.

 

[Anytime23]

Damn i miss arguing with you guys. We need NBA basketball back NOW!