Who still thinks CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

[Gustavus Adolphus]

The Wire was one of the best shows on television, ever.

 

[houheffna]

Lebron is one of the most skilled players ever play the game.But the fact that he is considered the best player ever from day 1 without proving anything make him one of the most hated players ever.Media are to blame for this.Happens easily when media try to influence people's minds.

When people hear that someone is THE BEST EVER,the greatest and stuff like that they expect to see someone that can take the ball and score in every situation.He can't.He is not that good.He can't dribble everyone in front of him and make a winning play.Kobe can,Rose can,Durant can,Wade can.He can't.So that's why they hate all this hype about him.

I have never heard anyone say Lebron is the best ever...I heard Pippen say something akin to that but I don't know about anyone else saying that.

And Lebron wasn't hated that much until "The Decision" went down. Before that, damn near everyone wanted Lebron James on their team. You don't get THAT much fanfare from teams if you aren't that good.

The other stuff about winning plays...anybody watch the ECF last year?

 

[houheffna]

lol of course this always gets back to the same regurgitated crap about lebron and rose

Sorry, wasn't trying to go there...

 

[Diddy1122]

Lebron is one of the most skilled players ever play the game.But the fact that he is considered the best player ever from day 1 without proving anything make him one of the most hated players ever.Media are to blame for this.Happens easily when media try to influence people's minds.

When people hear that someone is THE BEST EVER,the greatest and stuff like that they expect to see someone that can take the ball and score in every situation.He can't.He is not that good.He can't dribble everyone in front of him and make a winning play.Kobe can,Rose can,Durant can,Wade can.He can't.So that's why they hate all this hype about him.

I hate Lebron because he's an asshat, with no sense of loyalty or respect for the game. Game 5 of the East semis vs. the Celtics in 2010 was a disgusting, selfish display from an indignant, self-indulgent man-child. He will never be in the same conversation with greats like MJ, Bird, Magic etc. because of this.

 

[thechosenone]

The other stuff about winning plays...anybody watch the ECF last year?

Yes.Everybody can fail some and everybody can make some.The matter is who can make it more times.

And idk if you hear someone saying him the best ever but i would like to inform you that every single person around the world who don't watch NBA games and only watch highlights believe that he is way better than Jordan because nowdays basketball is more difficult than in Jordan's days and crap like that.But he is not that great and he don't respect the game at all.

For example.Last day the bucks won the game.All media focused on one single dunk of Lebron an noone wrote a fucking line about Ilyasova and Jennings.An other example from the yesterday game is that when it was 1 minute left with the heat losing for 3 points the bucks took the offensive rebound LBJ flopped and pretend to be injured so the refs called a loose ball foul on Bogut.His 6th.Noone wrote something about this too.Thats why everyone watching the games just hating him for all this hype and not being that great.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwQoGsv_eFE"]Lebron James wink after a flop - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JosMin]

I hate Lebron because he's an asshat, with no sense of loyalty or respect for the game. Game 5 of the East semis vs. the Celtics in 2010 was a disgusting, selfish display from an indignant, self-indulgent man-child. He will never be in the same conversation with greats like MJ, Bird, Magic etc. because of this.

Yup, pretty much this. He's the Dr. J of our generation. Also, can this thread just die. We aren't getting Carmelo, nor any other major free agent signing unless our front office wants to completely negate all the hard work it has put in over the last five years. I just don't see it happening.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yup, pretty much this. He's the Dr. J of our generation. Also, can this thread just die. We aren't getting Carmelo, nor any other major free agent signing unless our front office wants to completely negate all the hard work it has put in over the last five years. I just don't see it happening.

i understand the comparison..but james is already ahead of Dr. J.

 

[JosMin]

Dr. J had three titles (2 ABA, 1 NBA). He's one of the greatest in-game dunkers ever, he's renowned for his captivating style (The Baseline move in the 1980 finals is still one of the most incredible feats I've ever seen in sports) and his legacy of consistency and impact on the game still supersedes anything LeBron has done up to this point.

As great a player as he is (LeBron), the thing that sticks out in my mind for him is how many times he's choked under pressure. When I think of Dr. J, I think of a bad ass son of a ***** taking off from the free throw line, causing an entire stadium to completely lose it. I think of his ABA years, him teaming up with Mo Cheeks and Moses Malone and battling the Lakers and Rockets in the early 80s. LeBron? I just think of a quitter. I think of "The Decision." That's it. Sure, LeBron has a more complete skill set, but I still don't think he's a greater player at this point.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Dr. J had three titles (2 ABA, 1 NBA).

ABA titles mean jack

He's one of the greatest in-game dunkers ever,

so is lebron

he's renowned for his captivating style (The Baseline move in the 1980 finals is still one of the most incredible feats I've ever seen in sports) and his legacy of consistency and impact on the game still supersedes anything LeBron has done up to this point.

this whole quote is basically irrelevant...consistency? when has lebron ever had a bad year? or gotten hurt?

impact on the game? i dont think i really need to explain this one

As great a player as he is (LeBron), the thing that sticks out in my mind for him is how many times he's choked under pressure.

what do we consider under pressure..do we not consider the eastern conference finals perhaps a pressure situation? you have to establish this

is lebron the best under pressure...no not what im going to argue

i think people seriously forget a game against detroit in the palace in 07 ECF...one of the best performances i have ever seen

When I think of Dr. J, I think of a bad ass son of a ***** taking off from the free throw line, causing an entire stadium to completely lose it.

you're missing the point again...

I think of his ABA years, him teaming up with Mo Cheeks and Moses Malone and battling the Lakers and Rockets in the early 80s. LeBron? I just think of a quitter. I think of "The Decision." That's it. Sure, LeBron has a more complete skill set, but I still don't think he's a greater player at this point.

two things

A. you kinda contradicted your earlier statement comparing lebron and Dr J.

B. you seem to be judging this by a very subjective standard..also one that kinda misses the point

 

[houheffna]

Yes.Everybody can fail some and everybody can make some.The matter is who can make it more times.

And idk if you hear someone saying him the best ever but i would like to inform you that every single person around the world who don't watch NBA games and only watch highlights believe that he is way better than Jordan because nowdays basketball is more difficult than in Jordan's days and crap like that.But he is not that great and he don't respect the game at all.

For example.Last day the bucks won the game.All media focused on one single dunk of Lebron an noone wrote a fucking line about Ilyasova and Jennings.An other example from the yesterday game is that when it was 1 minute left with the heat losing for 3 points the bucks took the offensive rebound LBJ flopped and pretend to be injured so the refs called a loose ball foul on Bogut.His 6th.Noone wrote something about this too.Thats why everyone watching the games just hating him for all this hype and not being that great.

Lebron James wink after a flop - YouTube

Again...nobody has ever said that Lebron was the greatest ever...I have heard that from no NBA fan or NBA players or former players. Most talented? Yes, i believe that...but nobody said he was the best ever...

 

[Diddy1122]

ABA titles mean jack

Considering that a good portion of great players were playing in the ABA, the titles don't mean jack. Dr. J paved the way for every superstar in the NBA today, from playing style (high flying dunks, crossovers, & no-look passes) to off the court endorsements (He was the first NBA player to have endorsement deals & his own shoe). Overall, Dr. J's impact on the game is right up there with Chamberlain & MJ. Right now, Lebron's only real contribution to the game has been entertaining pre-game intros.

 

[houheffna]

Considering that a good portion of great players were playing in the ABA, the titles don't mean jack. Dr. J paved the way for every superstar in the NBA today, from playing style (high flying dunks, crossovers, & no-look passes) to off the court endorsements (He was the first NBA player to have endorsement deals & his own shoe). Overall, Dr. J's impact on the game is right up there with Chamberlain & MJ. Right now, Lebron's only real contribution to the game has been entertaining pre-game intros.

His point was Lebron is better than Dr. J. And no, Dr. J's impact on the game is not on level as Michael Jordan's impact...that is hilarious.

Dr. J's games were on tape delay on national television at the time. His impact isn't the same as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. And if Dr. J did anything close to "The Decision", NOBODY WOULD HAVE GIVEN A DAMN!!!

 

[zack54attack]

Please don't tell me people think that Dr. J > LeBron.

 

[Glide2keva]

I rest my case...when you have watched as much basketball as you claim to have watched, worked at Chicago Stadium for 10 years and now 40 years old...you should have a more mature outlook on the talent around the league.

Well, I look at more things than just stats. How you score, defend, etc. all play a role to me. lebron was shoved down our throats as the best without ever having to prove it. Does he put up stats? Sure he does. Does he come through when it matters, on the biggest stage in the game? Not so much. I rank Wade over him because Wade has led a team to a title. That defines greatness to me. You might like to go gaga over numbers, but I like to see when they perform rather than what they did.

"He sucks because I don't like him" (you did the same with Rondo) is a juvenile way to look at sports in my opinion. I hated Isiah Thomas...hated him. Don't care for him much now...but I know where he stands in the league history...or at least I can form an unbiased opinion of his accomplishments. You should try that sometime...

I hated Zeke also, but I know he was an all time great and I can be unbiased on him, now that he's not playing. Plus, I didn't pull the Rondo sucks because I don't him card. I said Rondo sucks because he does. He's an overrated scrub who got lucky. Have you even heard from the guy this year? No, because the Big 3 are declining so he can't pad his assists and hack players for steals like he used to do.

Maybe you should try sticking up for Bulls players since this is your favorite team when they are winning, the way you do players from other teams.

 

[zack54attack]

Lebron is one of the most skilled players ever play the game.But the fact that he is considered the best player ever from day 1 without proving anything make him one of the most hated players ever.Media are to blame for this.Happens easily when media try to influence people's minds.

When people hear that someone is THE BEST EVER,the greatest and stuff like that they expect to see someone that can take the ball and score in every situation.He can't.He is not that good.He can't dribble everyone in front of him and make a winning play.Kobe can,Rose can,Durant can,Wade can.He can't.So that's why they hate all this hype about him.

LeBron wasn't considered the Greatest Ever from day one. He was regarded as the best HS Basketball player ever, which he is. The hype on LeBron is that his skills were so unique and polished for his age that he could be the next Jordan.

I don't hate lebron because he's better than Rose. I'd have to think he's better than Rose in order to hate him for and I don't think that. Not because he doesn't play for my team, but because I never liked lebron period. He has all the talent and none of the heart. And if you hadn't been paying attention, Noah pumping himself up is way different than dancing on the sidelines while a game is going on, or taking fake pics before the game and walking off after you lose and not shaking hands or acknowledging the winner. I hate lebron because he was given the key to the jaguar without ever having to earn it.

The hype and fanfare that Rose gets was earned, because he worked hard and didn't shy away from the big moment. Can't say the same for lebronze.

You don't think LeBrons never worked hard? Talent is in every basketball player. Working hard is too. Just because LeBron was blessed with a talent doesn't mean he doesn't work hard. That's ludacris to say.

Rose hasn't shined away from a big moment, but how do you say LeBron has? What big moments has he shyed away from that Rose hasn't ?

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Considering that a good portion of great players were playing in the ABA, the titles don't mean jack.

and there were alot of crappy players in the league...it doesnt compare to the NBA...wasnt a bad league at all..but you have to think about the relative comparison between that and the NBA...stats were inflated in some cases as well..in Dr J's first season he averaged 15 RPG..WTF

Overall, Dr. J's impact on the game is right up there with Chamberlain & MJ. Right now, Lebron's only real contribution to the game has been entertaining pre-game intros.

lebron has had a massive impact....if you disagree, then why the hell do we have so many threads about him? why was the decision so big? is it just because he made it that big? no, lebron is an icon of the NBA(i dont mean necessarily a positive one though)...he basically WAS the cavs...

he made a franchise legitimate for 7 odd years...he had such an impact that cleveland,the city itself, had a significant downturn in regards to the economy once he left...

idk exactly what lebron has transcended..but is that really important? on that note perhaps the fact that he's 6'8 270 yet can do everything on the floor including passing is trascendent in itself

we get to the question about "impact"...and sure that is important but what's more important here in my interpretation of the comparison here...the supposed impact(alot of subjectivity here) or who actually is the better player?

and the truth is we will understand more what lebron's impact is after his career his over

 

[Glide2keva]

You don't think LeBrons never worked hard? Talent is in every basketball player. Working hard is too. Just because LeBron was blessed with a talent doesn't mean he doesn't work hard. That's ludacris to say.

Considering that he's had nothing but yes men and the everything handed to him and his game didn't evolve for 8 years, No I don't think he's worked hard. He's physically gifted enough that if he did work as hard as it appears that he is, he would have no problem stepping up when his team needs him and not being passive in the big moments.

Rose hasn't shined away from a big moment, but how do you say LeBron has? What big moments has he shyed away from that Rose hasn't ?

lebron has been in the Finals twice now. This last one showed that he isn't as clutch as people want him to be. Rose hasn't been in the Finals yet, but I believe when he gets there, he won't be passive when the game is in the balance like lebron did.

 

[zack54attack]

Considering that he's had nothing but yes men and the everything handed to him and his game didn't evolve for 8 years, No I don't think he's worked hard. He's physically gifted enough that if he did work as hard as it appears that he is, he would have no problem stepping up when his team needs him and not being passive in the big moments.

He's had everything handed to him? How? This is his second year with another true superstar. He had a bunch of decent role players in Cleveland for about three years.

Every year they contended, he ran into better teams. Just like what happened to the Bulls last season.

lebron has been in the Finals twice now. This last one showed that he isn't as clutch as people want him to be. Rose hasn't been in the Finals yet, but I believe when he gets there, he won't be passive when the game is in the balance like lebron did.

So how has Rose not shyed away if he hasn't been to the finals?

Even with the 2 finals losses (which I believe he lost to TWO better teams then his) his talent level is amazing. Whether you hate him or not he's going to be a great player. I can't stand him, but you can't deny the talent he has.

 

[houheffna]

Well, I look at more things than just stats. How you score, defend, etc. all play a role to me. lebron was shoved down our throats as the best without ever having to prove it. Does he put up stats? Sure he does. Does he come through when it matters, on the biggest stage in the game? Not so much. I rank Wade over him because Wade has led a team to a title. That defines greatness to me. You might like to go gaga over numbers, but I like to see when they perform rather than what they did.

I hated Zeke also, but I know he was an all time great and I can be unbiased on him, now that he's not playing. Plus, I didn't pull the Rondo sucks because I don't him card. I said Rondo sucks because he does. He's an overrated scrub who got lucky. Have you even heard from the guy this year? No, because the Big 3 are declining so he can't pad his assists and hack players for steals like he used to do.

Maybe you should try sticking up for Bulls players since this is your favorite team when they are winning, the way you do players from other teams.

That is the difference between me and you...I can consider a player what he is at the time and be impartial, not wait until the go to the HOF and then declare them an all time great.

I don't "stick up" for anybody...I call it like I see it.

Maybe you should try watching these guys play...Rondo is having another all star caliber year and is the best player on that team so far. And for a guy that talks about how you hate ESPN, and claim I rely on them for opinions, you have to "hear" about a guy to know whether he is having a good year or not? You should consider buying cable.

 

[Diddy1122]

His point was Lebron is better than Dr. J. And no, Dr. J's impact on the game is not on level as Michael Jordan's impact...that is hilarious.

Dr. J's games were on tape delay on national television at the time. His impact isn't the same as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. And if Dr. J did anything close to "The Decision", NOBODY WOULD HAVE GIVEN A DAMN!!!

I said his overall impact has been bigger. And I gave examples. There is no denying that what Dr. J accomplished set the stage for MJ & others. If you can't see that, you are totally blind. Endorsement deals were not around til Dr. J had 1. Ditto for shoe deals. And who does everyone in the NBA attribute the beginning of the slam dunk era with? :thinking:

And don't give me this crap about tape delay. The NBA was not as popular back then as it is today (that is thanks to MJ). Not to mention, ESPN was not the mega-Sports conglomerate that it is today. If Dr. J played in today's game, YES PEOPLE WOULD GIVE A DAMN WHERE HE WENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW I'M SHOUTING!!!! I LOVE TO SHOUT!!!!!