Who still thinks CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

[houheffna]

Regular season wins sure does mean a lot, right?

Oh wait... it doesn't.

Wade is far and beyond better as a player than Anthony. That is not even up for debate.

Bryant still is somewhat better than Anthony overall still. Despite his age and decline.

LeBron is so much better than Anthony, it is almost ridiculous.

The "far and beyond" stuff is over the top don't you think? And nobody is saying that Carmelo is as good as Lebron...but Melo is an elite player...period. The hype wouldn't have been there if he wasn't. That is all I am saying.

 

[houheffna]

Yes, Carmelo Anthony would have made the Bulls a LOT worse and would have taken any hope for the Bulls to win the championship last year away. And they did have a very good chance whether or not you want to admit it to yourself or not.

Noah at 100% is a lot better than the Noah we saw post-injury and post-return. He has dominated Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony, and was in Chris Bosh's head when he was at that 100% level. AND he was an offensive threat.

If Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem didn't come back, the Bulls might have won that series despite the fact Boozer and Noah were not at 100% and far from it. Making that trade would have absolutely gutted that team defensively and taken away their best rebounder (on the #1 rebounding team in the league).

Carmelo Anthony is not this superstar player. He has gotten owned by LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and the actual stars of the league since basically his arrival in Denver. Building a team with the main core of Rose+Anthony+Boozer does not belong on the same planet as a core of James+Wade+Bosh. All 3 of the Miami core are much better individual and team defenders than the 3 of the Bulls' core. You can't just sacrifice team chemistry to build a star team and expect to win a championship. The way the pieces fit together for the Bulls is already a much better fundamentally-sound group than how Miami plays. Miami has 3 mid-range shooters in the half court as their entire way of attack. The Bulls have Luol Deng who plays well of the ball and doesn't chuck ridiculous shots, and is arguably the best wing defender in the entire league. Carmelo is one of the worst all-around defensive wings in the league.

Saying Lebron, Wade and Kobe dominated Carmelo is absolutely untrue...saying Deng is the best wing defender (arguably) in the league is absolutely untrue (hint: watch Lebron play defense...breathtaking man...lol). If you saw the ECF last season...you know better than that. Deng couldn't do to Rose what Lebron did. Carmelo can score in more ways than Lebron or Wade...Carmelo has a complete game when it comes to scoring...he is not bad in any particular area. He is definitely an elite player...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

when i immediately look at this deal it seems pretty straighfoward

noah and deng are too confined dimensionally on offense to be sufficient..but are great defensively

melo is an average defender at the very best but a great offensive weapon

the question is, is it necessary to sacrifice a bit of defense for an offense weapon like melo?

certainly melo would help the team offensively..of course there is the argument that he has been more self serving than team serving an his offensive mindset may clash with rose's(ball domination and such)

but again, i think it comes down to which side of the ball do you really emphasize...are you looking to be stronger on D or on offense...but of course Thibs himself is a defensive minded coach...and there is the argument that his teaching ability on defense can compensate for having a team that may be stronger on offense than defense

for me...i like having deng and noah on the team...i think the bulls should really look elsewhere for their solutions..maybe a wilson chandler or a SG that can create and/or shoot the outside shot...outside shooting is a big issue imo that is overlooked

should the bulls overlook or ignore this trade if it became reality? absolutely not..it should certainly be considered..and certainly i think there is a legitimate argument for accepting the deal

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The "far and beyond" stuff is over the top don't you think? And nobody is saying that Carmelo is as good as Lebron...but Melo is an elite player...period. The hype wouldn't have been there if he wasn't. That is all I am saying.

To me, Anthony fits more in with the Paul Pierce's of the league than the LeBron James' of the league. Anthony borders between the worst of the elite and the best of the non-elite. That was what I meant in my original statement and there is no hyperbole in that. If Anthony is "elite" then there are about 10-15 players who are also worthy of that label. It just doesn't make sense to me to put that many players in that category because the word "elite" implies exclusivity.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Saying Lebron, Wade and Kobe dominated Carmelo is absolutely untrue...saying Deng is the best wing defender (arguably) in the league is absolutely untrue (hint: watch Lebron play defense...breathtaking man...lol). If you saw the ECF last season...you know better than that. Deng couldn't do to Rose what Lebron did. Carmelo can score in more ways than Lebron or Wade...Carmelo has a complete game when it comes to scoring...he is not bad in any particular area. He is definitely an elite player...

Luol Deng and LeBron James are both two of the best, if not the best, wing defenders. Putting one indefinitely above the other just is not fair at all. James definitely has more defensive let downs on his man than Luol Deng has had. Obviously, James expends a lot more energy on offense. When James wants to D-up his man, he may very well do it better than anyone. But he does not do it consistently better than Luol Deng. At least when it comes to man-to-man defense, what I am saying is true. When you factor in transition defense and weak side defense, James definitely is better than Deng there.

And Wade, Bryant, and James all dominate Anthony in terms of how complete players they are (defense is better; play-making is better). Head-to-head is irrelevant to me because nearly all of their head-to-head meetings have been in the regular season anyway. You never get the best effort out of teams during the 82-game season.

I don't disagree that Melo scores in more ways than Wade and James. He does not take higher percentage shots than them though. And there is more to offense than pure scoring ability. If Melo is a better scorer than Wade and James, it is by a relatively slight margin. Wade's and James' point guard skills and unselfishness trumps Melo's by a wide margin. Same story with Kobe, too.

Melo is an elite scorer. An elite player? That's a lot tougher because that would imply about a dozen more players (who are better than or about as good as Melo) are also elite. It just seems like a pretty big number.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

when i immediately look at this deal it seems pretty straighfoward

noah and deng are too confined dimensionally on offense to be sufficient..but are great defensively

melo is an average defender at the very best but a great offensive weapon

the question is, is it necessary to sacrifice a bit of defense for an offense weapon like melo?

certainly melo would help the team offensively..of course there is the argument that he has been more self serving than team serving an his offensive mindset may clash with rose's(ball domination and such)

but again, i think it comes down to which side of the ball do you really emphasize...are you looking to be stronger on D or on offense...but of course Thibs himself is a defensive minded coach...and there is the argument that his teaching ability on defense can compensate for having a team that may be stronger on offense than defense

for me...i like having deng and noah on the team...i think the bulls should really look elsewhere for their solutions..maybe a wilson chandler or a SG that can create and/or shoot the outside shot...outside shooting is a big issue imo that is overlooked

should the bulls overlook or ignore this trade if it became reality? absolutely not..it should certainly be considered..and certainly i think there is a legitimate argument for accepting the deal

Agreed with this 100%. And I do agree with the last statement, too. Especially if it proved true that the Bulls were unable to use those pieces to acquire Dwight Howard.

 

[FirstTimer]

Melo is an elite scorer. An elite player? That's a lot tougher because that would imply about a dozen more players (who are better than or about as good as Melo) are also elite. It just seems like a pretty big number.

1. There are not a dozen or more players better than Melo.

2. I will indulge your stupid ass and say there 15 or so players at or above
Melo in the game today.

Out of around 500 NBA players that's 3%.

That's a big number to you?

Do you ever think anything through before typing?

 

[houheffna]

Luol Deng and LeBron James are both two of the best, if not the best, wing defenders. Putting one indefinitely above the other just is not fair at all. James definitely has more defensive let downs on his man than Luol Deng has had. Obviously, James expends a lot more energy on offense. When James wants to D-up his man, he may very well do it better than anyone. But he does not do it consistently better than Luol Deng. At least when it comes to man-to-man defense, what I am saying is true. When you factor in transition defense and weak side defense, James definitely is better than Deng there.

And Wade, Bryant, and James all dominate Anthony in terms of how complete players they are (defense is better; play-making is better). Head-to-head is irrelevant to me because nearly all of their head-to-head meetings have been in the regular season anyway. You never get the best effort out of teams during the 82-game season.

I don't disagree that Melo scores in more ways than Wade and James. He does not take higher percentage shots than them though. And there is more to offense than pure scoring ability. If Melo is a better scorer than Wade and James, it is by a relatively slight margin. Wade's and James' point guard skills and unselfishness trumps Melo's by a wide margin. Same story with Kobe, too.

Melo is an elite scorer. An elite player? That's a lot tougher because that would imply about a dozen more players (who are better than or about as good as Melo) are also elite. It just seems like a pretty big number.

How many elite scorers are NOT elite players? In that case, you must think Durant is not elite also...you would be wrong in that case also.

LOL at the idea of Kobe being unseilfish...Carmelo is top 10, arguably top 5 in the league. Other players may be more complete on both sides of the ball...but again...there have been players who could only play on one side of the ball and are considered elite players in league history...Magic Johnson ring a bell?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

1. There are not a dozen or more players better than Melo.

2. I will indulge your stupid ass and say there 15 or so players at or above
Melo in the game today.

Out of around 500 NBA players that's 3%.

That's a big number to you?

Do you ever think anything through before typing?

James, Wade, Howard, Durant, Bryant, Nowitzki, Paul, Williams, Rose, Stoudemire, Griffin, Gasol are all players as good or at least a toss-up with Anthony. That's 12 right there. There's a solid 5 that are easily better.

The word "elite" is very subjective. To some, it could be the best couple of players, while to others it might mean a perennial all-star.

There's no way you can sit there and tell us as fact that this player is elite and this one isn't because it is all opinion. Especially when you get outside the top 5.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

How many elite scorers are NOT elite players? In that case, you must think Durant is not elite also...you would be wrong in that case also.

LOL at the idea of Kobe being unseilfish...Carmelo is top 10, arguably top 5 in the league. Other players may be more complete on both sides of the ball...but again...there have been players who could only play on one side of the ball and are considered elite players in league history...Magic Johnson ring a bell?

Durant is hands-down the best perimeter scorer in the league. Anthony takes a lot worse shots than Durant does. And Durant is also a better defender than Anthony. He's not far above average but he's better than Anthony.

And Kobe Bryant is capable of playing like a PG when the situation calls for it. Anthony isn't. You need some selfishness as a superstar, but being selfish exclusively is not anywhere near as helpful.

 

[inactiveuser1]

James, Wade, Howard, Durant, Bryant, Nowitzki, Paul, Williams, Rose, Stoudemire, Griffin, Gasol are all players as good or at least a toss-up with Anthony. That's 12 right there. There's a solid 5 that are easily better.

The word "elite" is very subjective. To some, it could be the best couple of players, while to others it might mean a perennial all-star.

There's no way you can sit there and tell us as fact that this player is elite and this one isn't because it is all opinion. Especially when you get outside the top 5.

I agree with all of those players except Gasol....he's a softie I don't think he's that great

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I agree with all of those players except Gasol....he's a softie I don't think he's that great

He is also a defensive presence and a top 15 or so rebounder in the league to go along with a great skilled offensive game so I think it would be more than fair to put him in the category of a guy like Carmelo Anthony.

 

[FirstTimer]

There's no way you can sit there and tell us as fact that this player is elite and this one isn't because it is all opinion. Especially when you get outside the top 5.

Bullshit.

Carmelo Anthony is an elite player.

So is every other player you named.

LOL at 3% being a big number.

Rami's mom: Hey honey! How'd you do on that Math test?

Rami: Really great! I scored a big number on it!

Rami's Mom: That's great sweetie! What did you score?

Rami: 3%!!

Rami's Mom:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Bullshit.

Carmelo Anthony is an elite player.

So is every other player you named.

LOL at 3% being a big number.

You do realize when we are talking about tiers of players this is all opinion, right? Anthony isn't in the top tier of NBA players. It's already pretty well established that players like James, Howard, Wade, Bryant, Durant, and Paul are clearly better basketball players than Anthony. Anthony would fall in maybe the top 2 of that entire list when it comes to scoring. Yet, all of those players can score at a very high level in their own right (and do lots more effectively on a basketball court than Anthony, as well).

 

[FirstTimer]

You do realize when we are talking about tiers of players this is all opinion, right?

Your opinion sucks and is absolutely Special person.

Therefore it is invalid.

Anthony isn't in the top tier of NBA players.

How many players to a tier?

Is 3% too high of a number?!

God you suck. I thought maybe letting you sleep of your retardation from yesterday would help, but apparently not. Back to the same ole stupid bullshit.

 

[FirstTimer]

Word of advice...when Skip Bayliss would write a completely nonsensical column just to incite anger/response, the next day he would write a new column and act as if what he wrote yesterday never existed. I suggest that you do the same.

You didn't follow this advice today.

Try it again tomorrow

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Again, you don't understand what the word subjective means. There is a group of players that Anthony clearly doesn't fall within. That could definitely classify as a tier of players that he doesn't quite make it into.

And just because you say something is "Special person" doesn't mean it is.

Saying things like "Special person" and "stupid" are general assertions that are not quantifiable.

If you actually could prove that I was stupid or Special person, you would do it without violating the rules of this forum by using profanity and insults via painting me with broad strokes.

 

[FirstTimer]

Again, you don't understand what the word subjective means.

I understand it fine.

Subjective =/= to not being stupid.

Way to go!

And just because you say something is "Special person" doesn't mean it is.

It absolutely does.

Saying things like "Special person" and "stupid" are general assertions that are not quantifiable.

The poll above this thread quantifies it.

I've already covered that.

If you actually could prove that I was stupid or Special person

I have. Repeatedly.

you would do it without violating the rules of this forum

LOL. What a fucking bitch.

:kick:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Way too take everything out of context once again. And completely ignore my point about being civil.

 

[FirstTimer]

Way too take everything out of context once again.

The context was fine. Your posts suck.

And completely ignore my point about being civil.

Quit being a moron, and I'll be civil.

Until then STFU and quit crying.