World Cup?

[xer0h0ur]

So long story short if your definition of outclassing an opponent is saying that they are the most talented team aka have the best players then that is why you don't agree with what I am saying. That isn't how I interpret outclassing an opponent.

 

[remydat]

I'm sure that was more of a reference to the fact they are the youngest team to ever win a WC. Of course they haven't played their best soccer yet. That is obvious. What I fail to believe however is that when a manager and the team intentionally changes their approach to how they play an opponent to ultimately come out with the win...its not interpreted as outclassing the opponent. If that wasn't true then every team would play using the same approach and there wouldn't be different alignments. Strategy is just as important as your talent.

Not it wasn't. Did you actually listen to the vid?

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24104832

He specifically said Croatia was the better team for the first 60 minutes. He also then made a point about the fact France's first 2 goals were controversial.

And no given how hard it is to score a goal, soccer matches are routinely decided by bad bounces, the refs or fluky plays.

There is nothing overly strategic about what France did. They were the weaker team for much of the game.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Not it wasn't. Did you actually listen to the vid?

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24104832

He specifically said Croatia was the better team for the first 60 minutes. He also then made a point about the fact France's first 2 goals were controversial.

And no given how hard it is to score a goals, soccer matches are routinely decided by bad bounces, the refs or fluky plays.

There is nothing overly strategic about what France did.

I can't watch videos on this potato of a PC at work which doesn't even have speakers or a headset anyways. Will have to catch that clip when I get home.

 

[dweebs19]

I'm not saying this because I'm biased, but I think that handball was deliberate. The way his hand comes down palm side to slap the ball, to me that's a penalty. I don't think his left hand comes down naturally at all. But again, I'm partially biased. I think Croatia played pretty well but they're not the better team. France is obviously the better team. I will agree that I think France underwhelmed their way to a world cup championship. I think the talent on this french team is too good to have played such a defensive type of game. They did win, so I guess that's all that matters. Good thing is that most of these french players are pretty young and will be back for the next Euro championship and world cup. Hugo Lloris and Giroud are the only two who will most likely not be around. Oh...chances are that the coach won't be around either. I think Zidane is getting ready to take over the French team.


Edit: Now that Messi and Ronaldo are on the back end of their careers, I'm looking forward to Neymar vs Mbappe arguments

 

[remydat]

He is jumping in the air, where do you expect his hands to be? He is putting his hands down because you get called for handball if you have you hands up over you head or away from your body. People naturally spread their arms when they jump and he is trying to bring his hands down closer to his body.

In real time, it is virtually impossible given he was right on top of the guy to realize he was heading the ball down. The France guy basically heads the ball as the guy is trying to get his hands down.

France is obviously the more talented team but the stats say Croatia was the better team for most of today. 2 different things really.

 

[remydat]

As for Neymar vs.Mbappe, Neymar is better and more consistent right now but Mbappe obviously has age on his side.

I would say Neymar is more like Messi and a better all around playmaker who can create chances from deeper as a winger/midfielder whereas I think Mbappe will develop more of a Ronaldo type game where he is more like a winger/striker. He is better closer to the goal.

 

[Bigfoot]

Croatia was my pick, but France was the better team. Great World Cup

 

[dweebs19]

He is jumping in the air, where do you expect his hands to be? He is putting his hands down because you get called for handball if you have you hands up over you head or away from your body. People naturally spread their arms when they jump and he is trying to bring his hands down closer to his body.

In real time, it is virtually impossible given he was right on top of the guy to realize he was heading the ball down. The France guy basically heads the ball as the guy is trying to get his hands down.

France is obviously the more talented team but the stats say Croatia was the better team for most of today. 2 different things really.

Look, when I see the replay, he clearly saw the ball. His hand is moving towards the ball. To me, that's a penalty. He knew where the ball was going and he turned his hand to hit the palm side. To me, that's a penalty. As far as intent, we can never truly know if it was intentional, but I think it was. Natural falling position doesn't have you raising your left leg towards the ball as you're falling down. So if it was a natural motion as he was landing after jumping, why does his left leg rise up to try and meet the ball? his left hand also goes towards the ball. So he obviously saw the ball. Now you can argue that he saw it too late and didn't have time for his hand to react, possibly, but I disagree on that.

As far as who was the better team today...eh...Croatia had more shots and more possession of the ball, but to me it doesn't mean they were the better team. Spain always has more possession of the ball for their tiki taka shit, but they never do anything with it. France has always played the counterattack game. That's what they have done all world cup. A reason why I never trusted them to win because I didn't like that tactic. They have too much offensive talent to rely on that imo. Only weaker teams play that game and Belgium. That's why I think they underwhelmed all world cup. France never really played to their full potential until they were down 2-1 against Argentina. They tried to do that against Argentina and then were forced to open it up when they went down 2-1.

 

[remydat]

Again he can't see the ball that fast. He is not superhuman. Replay is in slow mo. In real time it is virtually impossible for him to be able to see and react to the ball that fast. This explains it better and is from a former referee and players. All 5 of them say it is not hand ball. I honestly have yet to see a pundit who thinks it was a penalty although I watch main ESPN FC and Sky Sports.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24106748

The below has a ton of player tweets and they largely say the same thing. Perisic can't possible see and react to the ball that fast. Also talks about AG's dive that led to the first goal.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...all-world-reacted-to-frances-win-over-croatia

Even if you believe it was a penalty VAR is for clear and obvious mistakes. This was not clear and obvious as the ref even left the review booth and then went back to check again. He clearly wasn't sure which means he should have stuck with the original call. Same concept as not reversing in football unless it is incontrovertible.

As for the better team, Croatia did not merely dominate possession. They created chances as well. They just didnt convert them because shit happens in soccer.

 

[Warden of the Northeast]

France can personally thank me for this WC victory...now having said that, let's lock this thread up for 4 years.

 

[remydat]

Why was the girl whose France trip you paid for part of the VAR team?

 

[dweebs19]

you might be right in the fact that I'm watching it in slow motion. However, I still see his leg and hand both moving to meet the ball. Could just be that he was unlucky, Perhaps. As far as the first goal, I can't feel bad for them on that. Free kicks don't automatically lead to goals. Bad calls towards free kicks happen all the time and they don't all lead to own goals.

I think you and I have different ideas of the best team. Having possession doesn't automatically make you the best team. France's strategy has always been to play defensive. That's their strategy. It may not be pretty, but if that works, I can't say that they weren't the better team. For example, you could say Brazil were the better team against Belgium just because they had possession and more shots on goal...I disagree. I think Belgium were the better team. Belgium always plays like that. Point of the game is to be efficient with your shots. Same as when South Korea eliminated Germany. Was Germany the better team? not according to me. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I think France ended up with more shots on goal anyway.

Either way, I loved Croatia. If France were to lose to a team, I'd have wanted it to be to this team.

 

[remydat]

If all they had was more possession then I would agree with you. They had more chances whether you look at shots or corners. They were dangerous with that posession. You can play counter attacking football while still limiting a teams chances. That is not what France did.

I guess I make a distinction between being efficient and being the better team. France were more efficient. Croatia was better.

As for Brazil vs Belgium, Brazil were the better team statistically. Coutinho and Augusto in particular missed wide open shots in the box that didn't count as shots on goal because they didn't touch the goal and the goalie didn't have to make a save. The ref also missed a penalty against Jesus. Brazil created a ton of chances but they failed to convert. That is different than having possession but not creating chances.
Neymar alone created more chances overall and more chances for a specific player (Coutinho) over the course of the world cup. Because Coutinho and Jesus didn't convert, the narrative is he had a bad tournament despite leading everyone in chances created. That sitter he left for Coutinho that Coutinho normally converts but inexplicably flubbed is a microcosm of the point I am making. You can't set anyone up better than that bit because of the miss, it gets lost in the final result.

Soccer is a cruel sport where you can create a lot of scoring opportunities but in the end what matters is whether you convert. And a lot of that is just a function of if a particular player struck the ball particularly well on a given play. Point being soccer more than any other sport is one where individual brilliance or luck can overshadow the fact the other team played better.

In the end though it is subjective so to each his/her own.

 

[Bigfoot]

Croatia played the cross game, and gave France fits. Think the extra time that Croatia had in previous games caught up to them.

 

[bamainatlanta]

France can personally thank me for this WC victory...now having said that, let's lock this thread up for 4 years.

4.5 yrs. I believe next world cup is played in December.

 

[bamainatlanta]

As for Neymar vs.Mbappe, Neymar is better and more consistent right now but Mbappe obviously has age on his side.

I would say Neymar is more like Messi and a better all around playmaker who can create chances from deeper as a winger/midfielder whereas I think Mbappe will develop more of a Ronaldo type game where he is more like a winger/striker. He is better closer to the goal.

Neymar is a fucking disgrace to the game. Actually most of South America played the game like a bunch of cunts. FIFA needs to start assessing yellow cards after the match for these dives. Clean their act up right away.

 

[bamainatlanta]

FYI, France left Nasri, Benzema, Martial & Ribery off of their team--although I think Ribery has retired from Int'l play. This country is fucking stacked. A repeat is not unlikely.

 

[xer0h0ur]

FYI, France left Nasri, Benzema, Martial & Ribery off of their team--although I think Ribery has retired from Int'l play. This country is fucking stacked. A repeat is not unlikely.

Stacked and so god damned young. They will be a force in international play for the foreseeable future, save a plane crash or rash of injuries.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Stacked and so god damned young. They will be a force in international play for the foreseeable future, save a plane crash or rash of injuries.

still cant believe Benzema tried to blackmail his own teammate.

 

[xer0h0ur]

still cant believe Benzema tried to blackmail his own teammate.

Some people can't get out of their own damn way. But that case as far as I know isn't exactly open and shut nor is it even over? I don't know.