Yanks called about Matt Garza

[Lex L.]

The financial flexibility is nice but now you're out an ace/almost-ace level pitcher, another solid pitcher who can anchor the rotation, and you'd have to use the savings to replace them anyway. I think you have to treat this separately, this isn't like the Royals throwing Yuni Betancourt in with Zack Greinke.

I'm not suggesting that the Cubs should pocket the money. On the contrary, that was the whole idea behind identifying the financial flexibility aspect. You just mentioned that "almost-ace level pitcher". Now the Cubs can pay for someone who is either an "almost-ace level pitcher" or better and someone who doesn't have the baggage.

 

[Rice Cube]

I'm not suggesting that the Cubs should pocket the money. On the contrary, that was the whole idea behind identifying the financial flexibility aspect. You just mentioned that "almost-ace level pitcher". Now the Cubs can pay for someone who is either an "almost-ace level pitcher" or better and someone who doesn't have the baggage.

That's fine, and the baggage part is important, but from an economics and efficiency standpoint it doesn't make sense to get rid of your cost-controlled almost-ace pitcher in trying to also get rid of the baggage, who might not be that bad at pitching still. Makes more sense just to keep them both, especially if they're entering the free agent market to try to win games.

I actually don't know what the Cubs' plan is but I imagine they're going to still want to win a few games here and there. The best pitcher who could've been on the market was CC Sabathia but he restructured his contract with the Yanks. The other guy is CJ Wilson and I don't think he's that good. So trying to save some money to buy pitchers that are potentially worse doesn't seem like a good plan. Unless, of course, the Cubs decide to throw that money at Mark Buehrle, but we don't really know how likely he wants to become a Cub regardless of money. Or they could try Brandon Webb and hope his arm doesn't fall off.

Interesting to think about, for sure. But my initial feeling is that it doesn't make sense to throw Z in a package with Garza because that dilutes the value of that trade even if you're saving some cash.

 

[Lex L.]

That's fine, and the baggage part is important, but from an economics and efficiency standpoint it doesn't make sense to get rid of your cost-controlled almost-ace pitcher in trying to also get rid of the baggage, who might not be that bad at pitching still. Makes more sense just to keep them both, especially if they're entering the free agent market to try to win games.

I actually don't know what the Cubs' plan is but I imagine they're going to still want to win a few games here and there. The best pitcher who could've been on the market was CC Sabathia but he restructured his contract with the Yanks. The other guy is CJ Wilson and I don't think he's that good. So trying to save some money to buy pitchers that are potentially worse doesn't seem like a good plan. Unless, of course, the Cubs decide to throw that money at Mark Buehrle, but we don't really know how likely he wants to become a Cub regardless of money. Or they could try Brandon Webb and hope his arm doesn't fall off.

Interesting to think about, for sure. But my initial feeling is that it doesn't make sense to throw Z in a package with Garza because that dilutes the value of that trade even if you're saving some cash.

"Cost controlled almost-ace"...this kind of nomenclature is hilarious. Zamrbrano is set to make 18.7 million dollars. Sorry but 18.7 million dollars isn't "almost-ace" money, especially with that kind of baggage.

And listen. I honestly don't have as big of a problem with Zambrano as many others do. I think you could make a case for Zambrano being scapegoated while guys like Dempster get a pass. But having said that, the team, itself, seems to be intently focused exclusively on Zambranos problems and it's around this reality that I'm discussing this topic.

BTW, I think the guy to go after is Kuroda, not CJ Wilson.

 

[Rice Cube]

"Cost controlled almost-ace"...this kind of nomenclature is hilarious. Zamrbrano is set to make 18.7 million dollars. Sorry but 18.7 million dollars isn't "almost-ace" money, especially with that kind of baggage.

Was talking about Garza. He's still arbitration-eligible as a Super-Two.

And listen. I honestly don't have as big of a problem with Zambrano as many others do. I think you could make a case for Zambrano being scapegoated while guys like Dempster get a pass. But having said that, the team, itself, seems to be intently focused exclusively on Zambranos problems and it's around this reality that I'm discussing this topic.

Fair enough I personally think that they're trying to drive up his value as much as possible by even suggesting that he could come back to the Cubs. They'll probably put out feelers at the Winter Meetings to figure out who would even want Z before deciding whether to try a trade. As others have said, if he comes back and does well in spring training, you were going to pay him anyway, let him pitch and amass some value. If he sucks or blows a gasket, release, done. I don't think the trade market for Z is going to be that hot. I'd rather see him eat some innings so that the salary can go towards some production rather than no production.

 

[Rice Cube]

Kuroda is also an good idea. I thought LA was trying to negotiate with him though even if they are in bankruptcy hearings.

 

[Lex L.]

Was talking about Garza. He's still arbitration-eligible as a Super-Two.



Fair enough I personally think that they're trying to drive up his value as much as possible by even suggesting that he could come back to the Cubs. They'll probably put out feelers at the Winter Meetings to figure out who would even want Z before deciding whether to try a trade. As others have said, if he comes back and does well in spring training, you were going to pay him anyway, let him pitch and amass some value. If he sucks or blows a gasket, release, done. I don't think the trade market for Z is going to be that hot. I'd rather see him eat some innings so that the salary can go towards some production rather than no production.

And it's upon this premise that I entered this discussion with my original proposal of linking Garza and Zambrano where the Yankees are concerened.

As you can probably tell by now, I'm not overly attached to any of these issues emotionally. I think keeping Zambrano and Garza could be beneficial. But I also think that if the Yankees are really that interested in Garza, you could generate an opportunity to unload Zambrano. And this is coming from someone who appreciates Garza as a gamer. He's not the best pitcher in the world but when you follow the Cubs as I did this past year, Garza represents a lot of games where the Cubs give up 5 or fewer runs in total. He was fairly consistent and I appreciate how he competed from game to game...and I wasn't really even on board with him from the beginning considering what was given up to acquire him. My point is, that I think people should be flexible with a variety of scenarios that represent ways to improve the Cubs. I know this isn't popular but I would even consider shopping Castro.

 

[Lex L.]

Kuroda is also an good idea. I thought LA was trying to negotiate with him though even if they are in bankruptcy hearings.

I see multiple benefits to acquiring Kuroda. First of all, he's already in his late 30s and has withstood the test of time where age is concerned. If he's pitched this well to this point, Im willing to overlook age. If anything, to me, his age means that he might retire before his deal expires.

Additionally, I think he might help facilitate landing someone like Darvish (even though it's up in the air where he's concerned in terms of compensating Japanese teams).

 

[Rice Cube]

I see multiple benefits to acquiring Kuroda. First of all, he's already in his late 30s and has withstood the test of time where age is concerned. If he's pitched this well to this point, Im willing to overlook age. If anything, to me, his age means that he might retire before his deal expires.

Additionally, I think he might help facilitate landing someone like Darvish (even though it's up in the air where he's concerned in terms of compensating Japanese teams).

His age may make Kuroda a bit cheaper too. It's probably already on the Cubs' list of things to do.

I am cool with trading anything really, but I'm just trying to think of what's best for the team. Your scenario with the package trade to the Yankees is very interesting as well. I just don't think I'd do it :lol:

 

[The Bandit]

Kuroda will either pitch in California or go back to Japan he has publicly stated it

 

[Lex L.]

Kuroda will either pitch in California or go back to Japan he has publicly stated it

So he would rather pitch in Sacramento than Chicago?

 

[The Bandit]

So he would rather pitch in Sacramento than Chicago?

don't ask me thats what the guy said. I think it was refined to the Angels or the Dodgers though but basically outside of them if he doesn't sign with them he will go back to Japan.

 

[AnythingChicago]

Epstein better have said

 

[Lex L.]

don't ask me thats what the guy said. I think it was refined to the Angels or the Dodgers though but basically outside of them if he doesn't sign with them he will go back to Japan.

I think you mean "confined".

 

[Rice Cube]

Twitter

Okay. Guess the Winter Meetings are going to be crazy fun.

@SI_JonHeyman: opposing gms think #cubs will trade garza. makes sense. rebuilding situation. aggressive front office.

 

[waldo7239117]

Yeah, but going into the Winter Meetings starting pitching is the need. So..that's what Theo Epstein says.

 

[daddies3angels]

Very condensending... Cause cubs want SP but willing to trade there best SP?

 

[Rice Cube]

Very condensending... Cause cubs want SP but willing to trade there best SP?

It's a bit confusing, but let's see what the ultimate plan is before there's too much judgment.

 

[daddies3angels]

@CSNMooney
Patrick Mooney Theo seems conflicted re: Garza, a short-term asset v. #Cubs long-range plan: "He’s exactly the type of guy that we’d like to build around.”

even the media confused lol

 

[Rice Cube]

even the media confused lol

That's because Theo has the best poker face in the history of Cubs transactions.

 

[daddies3angels]

@CSNMooney
Patrick Mooney Theo's challenge with Garza, #Cubs: "Being honest about where you are as an organization and when your opportunity to really win comes.”

Assuming Cubs brass thinks they far away..Why go after DeJesus and Capano type of players. I just dont get it