You can want Poles gone for many reasons, but blaming him for...

Dstone5553

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Except firing a guy obviously over his head but with 3 years left on his contract is not a football decision, it is a financial decision.

It's really easy, do you think Poles would have extended Eberflus if he was coming out of contract with a 10 -24 record in his 2 yrs as HC?

If no, then he didn't make the decision.

If yes, well then you would be what we call special.

Poles isn't the Chairman of the Chicago Bears so he doesn't make those decisions. George does. Michael did before him.

Poles is telling George that firing Flus is the best move for the Chicago Bears. He's making that argument. And so George fires Flus.

If Poles decided that keeping Flus was the best move for the Chicago Bears in this situation, guess what would have happened?

Flus would be getting the Bears ready for SF this Sunday.

I'm not saying George would give Flus a 20 year extension if Poles advised him to do so, this is the real world we are living in. But that's a stupid example because Poles would never advice that.
 
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jive

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I think some of you guys are giving George too much credit. His biggest weakness is that he has no conviction in his decisions, thus why he always seeks counsel. Even the firing of Flus after the Detroit debacle was marked by indecision. I don't think he had enough knowledge or conviction to go with Flus, and he would have easily gone with one of the other candidates if swayed harder.

He really liked Pace, and he really likes Poles even though they are pretty opposite in their approach to being GM. I don't think George has any underlying core knowledge or principles to guide him.
 

iueyedoc

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Poles isn't the Chairman of the Chicago Bears so he doesn't make those decisions. George does. Michael did before him.

Poles is telling George that firing Flus is the best move for the Chicago Bears. He's making that argument. And so George fires Flus.

If Poles decided the keeping Flus was the best move for the Chicago Bears in this situation, guess what would have happened?

Flus would be getting the Bears ready for SF this Sunday.

I'm not saying George would give Flus a 20 year extension if Poles advised him to do so, this is the real world we are living in. But that's a stupid example because Poles would never advice that.
Hence why firing him with 3 years left was not an option for Poles, it was a financial decision, one that Bears ownership has never made.

How do you not get it?
 

Dstone5553

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Hence why firing him with 3 years left was not an option for Poles, it was a financial decision, one that Bears ownership has never made.

How do you not get it?
The point is the decision wouldn't have been made had Poles advised George not to fire him, 3 years left or not.

You can call it a financial decision but the point here is that the Bears fired him because Poles and company told George that would be the best thing for this organization. That's the reason he's gone.

The argument is about whether George makes these decisions or just signs off on them because he's advised to make these decisions by people like Poles and now Warren.
 

Myk

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Poles isn't the Chairman of the Chicago Bears so he doesn't make those decisions. George does. Michael did before him.


Now we're getting somewhere. And who is "the board" in a family business? The rest of the family.

Poles doesn't go before the board he goes before the CEO and the CEO goes to the board. Hence the McCaskeys as a whole are who are calling the shots.

So Poles goes to George and says Flus really sucks. George goes to Virginia and says Poles says Flus really sucks. Virginia votes Flus stays because paying his salary for an extra year really sucks for the family bank account.
How far they delve into micromanaging the team may be up for question but this should not be for anyone.
 

iueyedoc

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The point is the decision wouldn't have been made had Poles advised George not to fire him, 3 years left or not.

You can call it a financial decision but the point here is that the Bears fired him because Poles and company told George that would be the best thing for this organization. That's the reason he's gone.

The argument is about whether George makes these decisions or just signs off on them because he's advised to make these decisions by people like Poles and now Warren.
It absolutely is not. Go back to the OP. The point is that whether advised to fire him or not, the McCaskeys were not firing Flus after 2 years for financial reasons, maybe even their moral reasons, or whatever.

You are all over the place from saying George makes no decisions, to George is Poles puppet, to him being a yes man, to Poles being his advisor, to George only making financial decisions.

I think it's really funny that there is anyone out there who actually thinks George makes any decisions at this point

George would have fired Eberflus after the Washington game if Poles said he thinks that's what this organization should do.

Warren has a say, not George.

George McCaskey is a yes man to this GM and every GM that comes after him.


That is what's going on here right now.

Pick one of your incorrect lanes and stick with it.
 

Dstone5553

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It absolutely is not. Go back to the OP. The point is that whether advised to fire him or not, the McCaskeys were not firing Flus after 2 years for financial reasons, maybe even their moral reasons, or whatever.

You are all over the place from saying George makes no decisions, to George is Poles puppet, to him being a yes man, to Poles being his advisor, to George only making financial decisions.





Pick one of your incorrect lanes and stick with it.


I'm not arguing about the OP's point. I thought that was obvious. I'm arguing a completely different point, which I brought up when I said I think it's funny people think George makes decisions when it comes to players, coaches the team. That's the only point I am arguing. The only point I have argued. Hope that clears some things up for you.

And your last point about picking lanes is an easy one.

George is the boss because he's the chairman of this organization and therefore he pushes the lever on every decision that has to do with this team. There's no one else who does that since he's the chairman. If he wants to fire Poles, he fires Poles. But that doesn't mean he MAKES those decisions. One more time, it doesn't mean he MAKES those decisions. Poles and company explain those decisions to him with that all important reason that they will be what's best for the Chicago Bears and he pulls the lever on them. That's my argument. That is what's happening right now in the winter of 2024 in my opinion.

He's the chairman of the Chicago Bears, the buck stops with him and he listens to Poles an company when it comes to decisions about his team. And he does that, he says, because he's a fan and not a football evaluator. Poles and Warren are football evaluators and so they will do the evaluating and George will listen and do the lever pulling.
 

iueyedoc

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I'm not arguing about the OP's point. I thought that was obvious. I'm arguing a completely different point, which I brought up when I said I think it's funny people think George makes decisions when it comes to players, coaches the team. That's the only point I am arguing. The only point I have argued. Hope that clears some things up for you.

And your last point about picking lanes is an easy one.

George is the boss because he's the chairman of this organization and therefore he pushes the lever on every decision that has to do with this team. There's no one else who does that since he's the chairman. If he wants to fire Poles, he fires Poles. But that doesn't mean he MAKES those decisions. One more time, it doesn't mean he MAKES those decisions. Poles and company explain those decisions to him with that all important reason that they will be what's best for the Chicago Bears and he pulls the lever on them. That's my argument. That is what's happening right now in the winter of 2024 in my opinion.

He's the chairman of the Chicago Bears, the buck stops with him and he listens to Poles an company when it comes to decisions about his team. And he does that, he says, because he's a fan and not a football evaluator. Poles and Warren are football evaluators and so they will do the evaluating and George will listen and do the lever pulling.
Clear as mud.

LTFOL, Jan!

 
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Dstone5553

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Clear as mud.

Great retort. Now I do think you're a moron, much like Mky. We disagree about how much influence George has on the football decisions that get made and you somehow can't accept that someone has that opinion?

To everyone else, there are a ton of Bears fans who hate the McCaskey's and George McCaskey. I'm not proud or anything to admit this but I do too. I hate the influence they've had on this team and I pretty much hate Michael and George. They are two examples of people who have somehow convinced themselves they are on third base because they've hit triples when in actuality, they were born there. But that hatred doesn't make me blind to the current situation, which in my opinion, is one where George McCaskey is guided by people who know about football, not by his own views and his own opinions. I think he actually now has awareness that he's in no position to make any decisions related to the players or coaches on this team. I think he's learned that. I could be wrong but that's what I believe.

Simple as that.

For folks like iueyedoc and Myk, there are a shit ton of football fans out there who aren't that smart, and you two are just a miniscule example of that it seems. In other words, you've got lots of company.

Know that you are what people refer to as meatheads though. Awareness is the first step.

:)
 

Myk

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Great retort. Now I do think you're a moron, much like Mky. We disagree about how much influence George has on the football decisions that get made and you somehow can't accept that someone has that opinion?

To everyone else, there are a ton of Bears fans who hate the McCaskey's and George McCaskey. I'm not proud or anything to admit this but I do too. I hate the influence they've had on this team and I pretty much hate Michael and George. They are two examples of people who have somehow convinced themselves they are on third base because they've hit triples when in actuality, they were born there. But that hatred doesn't make me blind to the current situation, which in my opinion, is one where George McCaskey is guided by people who know about football, not by his own views and his own opinions. I think he actually now has awareness that he's in no position to make any decisions related to the players or coaches on this team. I think he's learned that. I could be wrong but that's what I believe.

Simple as that.

For folks like iueyedoc and Myk, there are a shit ton of football fans out there who aren't that smart, and you two are just a miniscule example of that it seems. In other words, you've got lots of company.

Know that you are what people refer to as meatheads though. Awareness is the first step.

:)

LOL forget football, you don't seem to have a grasp of basic business concepts.

I bet Eye Doc loves being lumped in with me.
 

Calabis

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Basically Poles was forced to take Eberflus and had to negotiate that he can fire Flus if he doesn't produce. Same bs...NFL needs to force McCaskeys to sell team...f them

 

msadows

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Basically Poles was forced to take Eberflus and had to negotiate that he can fire Flus if he doesn't produce. Same bs...NFL needs to force McCaskeys to sell team...f them


According to David Kaplan, the same guy who's been wrong about news he's leaked multiple times and then never takes accountability.

This guy is a clown, he carries around a plastic owl. I wouldnt believe a single thing that comes out of that bald idiots mouth.
 

Myk

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Business concepts?

You are a fucking imbecile.

Here's your path to awareness. Go to the Bears website and look at the Front Office. Scroll down to the Board of Directors.

If anyone is the voice of football all those McCaskeys blindly listen to the name is in that list and it's not the first time GM.

But that is still not the natural order of business. The board collectively has a say with the majority owner/shareholder having most of the say. It doesn't matter who they give titles to or allow to buy shares.

Now just for shits and giggles hit ctrl+F and search McCaskey and see all the McCaskeys and the positions they hold. And that's just the ones that have the name.
 

Myk

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Basically Poles was forced to take Eberflus and had to negotiate that he can fire Flus if he doesn't produce. Same bs...NFL needs to force McCaskeys to sell team...f them

I can see not wanting to fire a coach early and pay their salary for years even for a real corporate team. But I would think there would be a production clause as an easy out.

Both sides could adjust it to their needs. Obviously Flus would get a free year for a rebuild but after that there should be production goals to meet or you can be fired with substantially less payment.

Flus was just bad - drafting Ryan Leaf bad. The CBA allowed for an out on bad high pick QBs. Those outs should be common for coaches and other staff.
Without the contract Flus is gone last year, and probably mid season last year.
 

Dstone5553

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Here's your path to awareness. Go to the Bears website and look at the Front Office. Scroll down to the Board of Directors.

If anyone is the voice of football all those McCaskeys blindly listen to the name is in that list and it's not the first time GM.

But that is still not the natural order of business. The board collectively has a say with the majority owner/shareholder having most of the say. It doesn't matter who they give titles to or allow to buy shares.

Now just for shits and giggles hit ctrl+F and search McCaskey and see all the McCaskeys and the positions they hold. And that's just the ones that have the name.

You are such a simpleton that you can't grasp that the Chairman of the Chicago Bears has openly said he doesn't make decisions when it comes to football matters, explaining to the world that he's "just a fan" and "not a football evaluator." You can't wrap your head around the notion that right now, while he is indeed in charge, he let's "football evaluators" like Poles make the football decisions and those are the decisions the he, the Chairman of the Chicago Bears, goes with.

You can disagree with this opinion but the fact you can't understand it is what makes you a dumb poster here.

You've shown me a mountain of evidence making that argument.
 

Myk

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You are such a simpleton that you can't grasp that the Chairman of the Chicago Bears has openly said he doesn't make decisions when it comes to football matters, explaining to the world that he's "just a fan" and "not a football evaluator." You can't wrap your head around the notion that right now, while he is indeed in charge, he let's "football evaluators" like Poles make the football decisions and those are the decisions the he, the Chairman of the Chicago Bears, goes with.

You can disagree with this opinion but the fact you can't understand it is what makes you a dumb poster here.

You've shown me a mountain of evidence making that argument.

I'm the simpleton?
You didn't even go to the website and look did you?
And you believe everything you're told, like a simpleton but call others simpletons? You are the moron who's too stupid to realize you're stupid.
There's 2 sides to every story, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

If Virginia is pissed she tells Warren who tells Poles who tells the coaches who tell the players.
It doesn't matter what title George has or what George says. It doesn't matter what the board members names are, other than Virginia is the majority owner and has the final say in anything she wants to final say in.
Warren is the CEO, he is on the board. Not Poles. If anyone is telling them the good football moves it is the CEO, you pinhead.

If the McCaskeys had no say in how the team was run we would notice a change in how the team was run with every GM/HC change. You simply couldn't find that many experienced in the NFL who would do this same loser vision of team building that even Papa Bear didn't practice.
Especially not when they come in saying they're going to do the opposite and build the team the right way.
 

zabavka

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That's been my disappointment so far. They need to stop dumpster diving for da trenches
Remember in the past few years when top O linemen were available and the Bears had money but they weren't a scheme fit?

Lol CCS full of geniuses I tell ya
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I think there are a multitude of issues with the Bears, ownership being chief among them.

But let's really break it down (long read - if you have a short attention span or an idiot, just skip this post):


* The McCaskey family are NOT your typical "rich" owners. They are basically first generation trust fund kids who inherited daddy's organization and have no idea how to run it. They don't have success in any other aspect of life. They basically milk the Bears for all its worth.

* "The McCaskey's are cheap" - both true and not. I don't think they set out to be cheap, but at the same time, because of their poor management and that the Bears are their only income basically, financial mistakes get magnified. They end up having to hold onto a coach or a GM too long because fiscally, despite owning an asset worth billions, they have no liquid capital to back it up. So they end up having to "eat" bad decisions a year too long.

* "When you sit down to play cards, your first job is to spot the sucker. IF you can't figure out who the sucker is, YOU'RE the sucker." This is the core of the McCaskeys. They go to search firms and OTHER TEAM OWNERS whom they technically are competing against for advice. Because they don't operate on a competitive plane. The McCaskeys think they are at a country club social. By all reports, they DO want to win, but frankly are too stupid, too gullible, and too clueless to do it, and that also includes matters of business - all this time, and they still haven't found ways to generate revenue to buoy potential expensive mistakes that they need to move on from but fiscally can't. THIS is how you end up with arranged marriages and people staying too long.

* Trace Armstrong - Kaplan wasn't wrong when he brought up Armstrong's hold on the McCaskeys, but even then, he didn't dig deep enough. The McCaskeys LOVE their former players - the association makes them feel special (so long as they don't have to pay them directly, hence Olin Kreutz and the famous $15 an hour). The McCaskeys are the type who absolutely would turn to someone like Armstrong to "help them". Does anyone remember the rumors going back even 5-10 years before his retirement that Armstrong may replace Ted Phillips as team president? Likely Armstrong angling for the spot and leaking things, and even though he didn't get the position, Kap covered just how much influence he has with the Bears based on their recent hires. Armstrong has a direct pipeline to the McCaskeys.

I think that paints a pretty good picture of the ineptitude of the McCaskey family.


So - any hope for change?

There actually IS one, but it is pure speculation on my part based on reading body language and what people are saying about the McCaskey's younger generation and the Inheritance tax.

First, let's start with the rumors most people have heard:

When Ginny dies, the inheritance tax will make it next to impossible for the McCaskeys to keep the team. And the other rumor is the kids of the McCaskeys who were in the room for the latest presser do not give a flying eff about the Bears - they basically are like spoiled rich kids and all want the team sold and they all get a cut. This is NOT what the elder McCaskeys want, but they have no choice - that inheritance tax is going to be a real *****, and they can't afford it. The board of directors for the Bears also knows this. The Board most likely leaned on the McCaskeys to face reality and try to get this team right and a stadium built so they can sell for maximum profit.

Somewhere in that process of internal evaluation, they got told by people evaluating the team for sale (it might even have come direct from the NFL) that their operation was basically too fucked up to get top dollar. The Board wouldn't have been happy about that. And Trace Armstrong, for all his ties, doesn't have expertise in that. They needed to hire an outsider.

Enter Kevin Warren.

However Kevin got here, the rhetoric around him is that he was looking for an opportunity to straighten out the Bears organization - likely for sale, imho. That includes the stadium deal, which, yes if we take on face value looks like the Bears don't know what they are doing, but the threat of staying downtown just provided enough leverage that Arlington Heights backed off on its demands and they agreed to the Bears original tax deal.

And the Stadium DOES need to be built in Arlington Heights. In addition to the land of the stadium itself,
there is enough room to build out an entire ecosystem around the stadium much like Wrigleyville has with the rooftops and bars and hotels and restaurants, all of which now are owned by the Ricketts. It actually provides a solution to the McCaskeys' cash flow problem if they could convince the kids not to sell - in Wrigleyville, the Ricketts' get a cut on everything they own, similar to how the city of Chicago gets a cut of parking and concessions in Soldier Field. If they were able to build all that up, all the income from game day revenues of not just in but outside the stadium would allow them to keep the team and provide steady income for generations, as well as allow the McCaskeys to move up to the tax brackets of some of their other owner counterparts.

Even if they sold the team, if they were smart, they could keep the land around the stadium and still get that income. But by all accounts, the McCaskey kids are just as stupid as their parents; they want everything sold and be done with it.

Anyway, pay close attention to Kevin Warren. Notice how in the press conference, he announced he felt like now was when he could start making the changes he wanted. Notice how the lone survior of Trace Armstrong's clients - the GM - looked like a broken man in that same presser. Warren, despite what he said about shared accountability and Ryan being the point person, looked in command, and Poles looked passive.

I think the only way you can read that, is that Warren has been there long enough, gotten a lay of the land, said what he has to in order to keep the idiot owners happy until he can get the stadium to break ground and can sell this thing, and now is ready to de-**** the Bears organization and get it ready for maximum sale. The presser sent an unspoken message imho - the days of Trace Armstrong's influence is over. For all the people wondering why it took so long to fire Eberflus, I think Warren finally made his move; he finally convinced George to do this the right way, convinced him that Trace's influence in the organization was a huge part of the problem, and to Poles's credit, seemed to see this coming, and worked with Warren, which is probably why he is still here.

But when you look at what Warren wants, and then see how passive Poles is, it definitely reads to me like they may move in a direction where the coach has more power than the GM - a first for the Bears.

I guess we will see, but so far, when I piece everything I've seen and heard together, that's what I come up with.


Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
 

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