You can want Poles gone for many reasons, but blaming him for...

[Bearly]

Fields scored on two minute drives and had them roaring back against Indy, he's significantly better than what Eberflus got out of him.

Monty was beloved here and left because it was a fucking mess. Mooney literally went MIA in the last two games of the year last year and nobody said anything -he's fucking playing better in Atlanta. Brisker has been going NUTS on Twitter and today said he's back on grass meaning the concussion stuff was related to him not wanting to play for Eberflus.

Brisker is a winner. Monty is a winner. Mooney was limited but a dude here for a minute. They all wanted out - this dude fucking sucked.

These dudes aren't assholes but they had to become that just to let the GM know that this dude sucks. They're going to get red hot here because they're really freaking talented.

Mooney was open, a lot, and not thrown to. You were also one of his dissenters last year, saying he fell off a cliff when he was the same player after about 5 games. He just wasn't the 1st read any longer. Enough revisionist history. Of course it wasn't all Fields fault but his 4th qrt rating was 53.4 and only 34.7 when within 7 points. Regardless if it was play calling etc, it was demonstrably bad.

Last year he fumbled twice in the 4th quarter against the Vikes and in another game he threw a pick that had Denver tie the game and then fumbled to give them the win. The fumbles aren't represented in those passer ratings. Was the coaching shit? Yes and of course it had an effect but his individual 4th quarter play left a lot to be desired.

He was a victim of a system that may not have put him in the best position to succeed but it's like people forget how late he slid and took unnecessary hits (while blaming the unfair refs), how long it took him to dump balls, instead taking sacks, and his reluctance to throw the middle (still there). He's getting better and is in a great spot but he still has some of the same tendencies.

I've said this before. Not every GM that needed a QB is an idiot and his market value appeared to be, at best, a 4th while on a cheap deal. Of course it wasn't all his fault but it was absolutely time to change horses under those draft circumstances. He'll have a long career with plenty of play in the NFL but I doubt he becomes a destination. I wish him well and hope I'm wrong about his ceiling.

 

[Bearly]

The Bears have a president, and he made it clear it was his decision to keep Eberflus another year.

The Bears need a new president as well. Friday morning was just as bad as Thursday afternoon. That was on Warren.

My guess is that his statement was of the buck stops here type and he was convinced by Poles to stick with Flus but no matter, it happened and he's the top of this totem pole.

 

[modo]

My guess is that his statement was of the buck stops here type and he was convinced by Poles to stick with Flus but no matter, it happened and he's the top of this totem pole.

If it needs Warren's approval, then its Warren's decision. Warren made it seem like he gave his blessing. If Warren could have vetoed it, then Poles' decision is just window dressing.

 

[Bearly]

If it needs Warren's approval, then its Warren's decision. Warren made it seem like he gave his blessing. If Warren could have vetoed it, then Poles' decision is just window dressing.

Sort of the point. The idea that Poles convinced his associates to move that direction is more than window dressing. 2 things can be true at the same time and yes, being convinced means you've come on board.

 

[Dstone5553]

You keep spewing out opinion as fact without any proof. You believing something is true doesn't make it true .

It is not George fucking McCaskey, it is the McCaskeys. It is a family business and as far as I know the only family business left in the NFL.
Yeah, Virginia getting pissed never happened. McCaskeys are just silent owners sitting back allowing all these GMs and HCs destroy their multibillion dollar business for the last 40 years with blatant incompetence.
Only one McCaskey at a time in the position to have the final say has any say and is smart enough to not use it, like Papa Bear isn't their birthright.

Warren and Cunningham coming in strongly point to nobody is Poles' yes man, he has McCaskey yes men watching his every move.
Did Poles follow through with his promise of trenches first? No because he's not a true GM.

It's amazing how McCaskeys can only manage to find GMs and HCs who want to build a team contrary to what the NFL has become and what the rule changes favor. Just ignore the one time the GM/HC built the team in a way to match the modern NFL they were fired after 2 years.
Just ignore the times the GMs/HCs come in talking about bringing the Bears into the modern NFL and then go right back to building the McCaskey PR release Bears from the 40s.

Yes, it's an opinion. Good job figuring that out.

And yes, it's George McCaskey who is chairman of the Chicago Bears right now and that is who I am talking about. Right now. In this present moment.

And right now, it's my opinion that he is following his GM, not the other way around.

Get it?
Got it?
Good.

 

[Dstone5553]

Happens all the time. Sometimes owners want what they want.

Blanks marched into the room and demanded that Penix be the next pick

Mara wanted Schoen to keep Saquan and he didn't. Now he's unemployed.

If George felt a certain way he'd make a request and the GM would have to do it. It happens. To think the GM is somehow the boss and has the final say is very naive.

I can't say what happened with the bears as I wasn't in the room but based on history Flus wasn't fired until Friday because of ownership. Last season they may have asked Poles and he suggested keeping at the end of last season, it's almost certain Poles, Warren, or anyone else would have run firing a coach mid season up the flag pole.

Owners make dumb requests sometimes and the GMs have to follow them.

I'm not talking about other owners, I'm talking about George McCaskey.

And I'm talking about the fact that he has awareness that when he has made decisions, they have not worked, whatever they were. That experience has made him understand that he's not going to be making football decisions anymore. That experience has made him be an owner who follows his GM.

Here's an example that probably a lot of people are going to disagree with. Let's say Poles walks into George's office last year and tells him that he thinks getting Harbaugh to be the next coach of the Bears would be putting this organization in the best position to be relevant again. And let's say George lets Poles know he's not really comfortable having Harbaugh be the coach of this team. My contention is that if Poles pushes hard enough, George will relent and agree to bring Harbaugh in for an interview.

My contention is the if Poles wanted Harbaugh badly enough, they would have made a push to get him because George would have gone along with it.

Of course owners stick their head into decisions about players, about the team. I'm not talking about other owners, I'm talking about this one.

 

[remydat]

This is such a ridiculous assertion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1743015447996293481

Again Flus may have sucked but the point is he could blame some of those losses on shit QB play and Poles appeared to have accepted that argument because he kept Flus and dumped Fields. Doesn't matter if you agree. Only matters if Poles agreed.

 

[remydat]

It was clearly cumulative. Secondly, if Warren and Cunningham did want Flus gone after last year and Poles kept him as rumored, you are wrong again.

Not to mention that there's no reason to offer an actual rebuttal to pure conjecture. The reasoning behind why Poles kept him is not only irrelevant, if what you say turned out to be true then Poles should be fired on the spot for being an idiot. Plenty of teams have bridge coaches that aren't expected to make it through a tear down, and once again it was absolutely clear that Eberflus was not making a difference. His handling of Fields alone should have been a huge red flag to Poles that you did not want this guy anywhere near Williams. There is no room in this business to be a nice guy. With the coaching candidates available last season, you cut bait and try to get someone like Harbaugh and just reset the clock. The fact that he didn't is a larger indictment on Poles than if he had.

Except Poles is the one that matters not Warren or Ian. So again it seems clear that Poles bought the argument that a lot of the 4th quarter struggles was due to Fields being shit.

If Flus got 5 years as rumored then he was viewed as a bridge coach. The argument as to why he asked and received a 5th year is because it was going to be a rebuild.

At the end of the day, Flud failed so it will always be a knock against Poles. Question is whether he recovers from it or not.

 

[ijustposthere]

Except Poles is the one that matters not Warren or Ian. So again it seems clear that Poles bought the argument that a lot of the 4th quarter struggles was due to Fields being shit.

If Flus got 5 years as removed then he was viewed as a bridge coach. The argument as to why he asked and received a 5th year is because it was going to be a rebuild.

Again, pure conjecture. You've made no argument, just nothing but guesses.

 

[remydat]

Again, pure conjecture. You've made no argument, just nothing but guesses.

And all you have done is counter conjecture. You literally just quoted a source claiming Warren and Ian wanted Flus fired.

 

[ijustposthere]

And all you have done is counter conjecture. You literally just quoted a source claiming Warren and Ian wanted Flus fired.

Yes, which is more than you've offered. As I've said, if Poles truly couldn't recognize that Flus game management was a problem with the Bears blowing games in epic fashion, then he isn't the guy that should be looking for the next HC. It was obvious, regardless of Fields' struggles.

 

[remydat]

Yes, which is more than you've offered. As I've said, if Poles truly couldn't recognize that Flus game management was a problem with the Bears blowing games in epic fashion, then he isn't the guy that should be looking for the next HC. It was obvious, regardless of Fields' struggles.

No I said it was rumored Flus had 5 years. That comes from Brad Biggs ie an actual reporter not some unknown dude on Twitter.

It isn't game management when Fields is throwing picks or having fumbles returned for TDs.

 

[Myk]

Maybe Fields didn't suck in the 4th qtr, maybe he was trying not to piss CCS off by stat padding in garbage time.

 

[jsu34]

I'm not talking about other owners, I'm talking about George McCaskey.

And I'm talking about the fact that he has awareness that when he has made decisions, they have not worked, whatever they were. That experience has made him understand that he's not going to be making football decisions anymore. That experience has made him be an owner who follows his GM.

Here's an example that probably a lot of people are going to disagree with. Let's say Poles walks into George's office last year and tells him that he thinks getting Harbaugh to be the next coach of the Bears would be putting this organization in the best position to be relevant again. And let's say George lets Poles know he's not really comfortable having Harbaugh be the coach of this team. My contention is that if Poles pushes hard enough, George will relent and agree to bring Harbaugh in for an interview.

My contention is the if Poles wanted Harbaugh badly enough, they would have made a push to get him because George would have gone along with it.

Of course owners stick their head into decisions about players, about the team. I'm not talking about other owners, I'm talking about this one.

But yet again you are speaking hypothetical based on how you think George acts.

Believe me when I say this: that is a very naive thing to believe.

The guy may be totally clueless when it comes to actual football but it is a bit foolish to believe he doesn't know he's the boss.

Will he listen to Poles and Warren, of course. But if he wants something done his way no matter how dumb it may seem, he's going to get his way.

George is the boss just like every other owner in any other franchise that way.

GMs don't tell their bosses how things go. They suggest based on their expertise. It's up to the owner to greenlight, especially if it's a big decision that will be seen in the public. George is no different.

 

[Myk]

But yet again you are speaking hypothetical based on how you think George acts.

Believe me when I say this: that is a very naive thing to believe.

The guy may be totally clueless when it comes to actual football but it is a bit foolish to believe he doesn't know he's the boss.

Will he listen to Poles and Warren, of course. But if he wants something done his way no matter how dumb it may seem, he's going to get his way.

George is the boss just like every other owner in any other franchise that way.

GMs don't tell their bosses how things go. They suggest based on their expertise. It's up to the owner to greenlight, especially if it's a big decision that will be seen in the public. George is no different.

I think it's denial as much as naive. If the McCaskey family is the source of all the problems since '85 we have no hope until they sell or come to their senses.
But after 40 years of seeing the same things by different FOs it's getting hard to deny what's going on.

Even with George I saw someone mention how all the rookie QBs get a year with a HC and is then fired.
Are we really supposed to believe that's different GMs doing the same thing?

 

[TheEarlofRobin]

You can give Poles a pass on everything and speculate that every bad decision was someone else's responsibility, but IMO there are two things that cannot be dismissed....his 14-32 record and the Bears inability to even pursue Jim Harbaugh this past offseason. That was definitely a missed opportunity to change the course of the franchise. Instead, we have this.

 

[Dstone5553]

But yet again you are speaking hypothetical based on how you think George acts.

Believe me when I say this: that is a very naive thing to believe.

The guy may be totally clueless when it comes to actual football but it is a bit foolish to believe he doesn't know he's the boss.

Will he listen to Poles and Warren, of course. But if he wants something done his way no matter how dumb it may seem, he's going to get his way.

George is the boss just like every other owner in any other franchise that way.

GMs don't tell their bosses how things go. They suggest based on their expertise. It's up to the owner to greenlight, especially if it's a big decision that will be seen in the public. George is no different.

George knowing he's the boss does not translate into George making football decisions. Of course he's knows he's the chairman of the Chicago Bears. He does not have a delusional disorder or a psychotic disorder as far as I know. Yes this is how I think he is behaving right now. I think it's silly that people think he's actually going against what Poles is thinking and making decisions when it has to do with players, coaches, the team. I strongly believe he's not. I believe he's listening to Poles and whomever his next GM is and doing what they are advising. People who think otherwise, I think, are ridiculous.

Now, if you know George or know people who are in the room with him when these decisions are being made, that's another thing.

But it's completely irrelevant what other GMs do because that's other GMs. I'm talking about George McCaskey and what he does. And I believe he goes in the direction his GM thinks he should go and has no hands on the wheel when it comes to these kinds of decisions.

 

[Canth]

I can easily see George McCaskey as being a passive aggressive owner. He wants to sit back and act like the GM has all the football decisions while also wanting to control the outcome in the way he prefers it to be done.

He strikes me as the type to lay down a bunch of hints on what he wants but no clear statement so he can try and say he has no influence on the outcome. He is a coward in that sense where he seems to want the influence but none of the repercussions of making an actual decision.

 

[Myk]

You can give Poles a pass on everything and speculate that every bad decision was someone else's responsibility, but IMO there are two things that cannot be dismissed....his 14-32 record and the Bears inability to even pursue Jim Harbaugh this past offseason. That was definitely a missed opportunity to change the course of the franchise. Instead, we have this.

That's kind of what I say. You took the job to fall on someone else's sword. He took that job to heart so whether or not he is directly responsible he is responsible.

He didn't have to support Flus as hard as he did. A "Flus is our HC" would be enough to tell everyone what was going on.

 

[jsu34]

George knowing he's the boss does not translate into George making football decisions. Of course he's knows he's the chairman of the Chicago Bears. He does not have a delusional disorder or a psychotic disorder as far as I know. Yes this is how I think he is behaving right now. I think it's silly that people think he's actually going against what Poles is thinking and making decisions when it has to do with players, coaches, the team. I strongly believe he's not. I believe he's listening to Poles and whomever his next GM is and doing what they are advising. People who think otherwise, I think, are ridiculous.

Now, if you know George or know people who are in the room with him when these decisions are being made, that's another thing.

But it's completely irrelevant what other GMs do because that's other GMs. I'm talking about George McCaskey and what he does. And I believe he goes in the direction his GM thinks he should go and has no hands on the wheel when it comes to these kinds of decisions.

Again, why do you belive George is any different?

There's no evidence one way or the other but you seem to have convinced yourself.

Poles didn't invent the whole "we don't fire coaches during the season" stance.

That's a McCaskey thing plain and simple. So George had to be involved in this decision whether you choose to believe it or not.

Going forward, it may now be Warren/Poles considering George may see they were correct in wanting to move forward without Flus.