You can want Poles gone for many reasons, but blaming him for...

[Myk]

That's a McCaskey thing plain and simple.

To be fair it was also a Halas thing for the first 50 years. By the time the McCaskeys got their mitts on things it was tradition.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Fact - Eberflus had a 14-32 record for the Bears

Fact - Poles currently has a 14-32 record with the Bears

The decisions Poles has made from personnel to draft picks to coaches are on him. The length they kept those coaches is also likely on him. I do look at the situation as of now with the roster and the cap space/draft picks upcoming and we do sit in a good position. He has made many bad mistakes but we are in good position going forward, that is what gives him grace with ownership. He has to own this season as much as Eberflus but because of the position we are in going forward he gets to continue. If he screws up this coaching hire and the cap space/draft capital this upcoming offseason then he will be in hot water. If we are 4-8 at this time next year he needs to go, he has to nail it.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Fact - Eberflus had a 14-32 record for the Bears

Fact - Poles currently has a 14-32 record with the Bears

The decisions Poles has made from personnel to draft picks to coaches are on him. The length they kept those coaches is also likely on him. I do look at the situation as of now with the roster and the cap space/draft picks upcoming and we do sit in a good position. He has made many bad mistakes but we are in good position going forward, that is what gives him grace with ownership. He has to own this season as much as Eberflus but because of the position we are in going forward he gets to continue. If he screws up this coaching hire and the cap space/draft capital this upcoming offseason then he will be in hot water. If we are 4-8 at this time next year he needs to go, he has to nail it.

Our offensive line is as bad as it has been for going on 2 decades, and I expected that to change from a gm who had been even a subpar oline player

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Our offensive line is as bad as it has been for going on 2 decades, and I expected that to change from a gm who had been even a subpar oline player

Yep, squarely on Poles

 

[onebud34]

Our offensive line is as bad as it has been for going on 2 decades, and I expected that to change from a gm who had been even a subpar oline player

That's been my disappointment so far. They need to stop dumpster diving for da trenches

 

[Myk]

Yep, squarely on Poles

Are you sure about that because it's been like this no matter who the GM has been for a very long time.

 

[Dstone5553]

Again, why do you belive George is any different?

There's no evidence one way or the other but you seem to have convinced yourself.

Poles didn't invent the whole "we don't fire coaches during the season" stance.

That's a McCaskey thing plain and simple. So George had to be involved in this decision whether you choose to believe it or not.

Going forward, it may now be Warren/Poles considering George may see they were correct in wanting to move forward without Flus.

That's a Michael McCaskey thing, not George. That was handed to George. EVERYTHNG was handed to George. And I'm sure George loved the idea and wanted to continue with it but guess what happened, Flus got fired in the middle of the season. And guess why that happened? Because Poles thought it was the right thing to do for the Chicago Bears.

If Poles thought it was the right thing to do for the Chicago Bears to keep Flus, guess what would have happened? The Bears would have him as their head coach right now.

Why? Because George would have listened to Poles. Why? Because I think George actually knows that Poles knows a shit ton more about this than he does. I think he knows it.

You may want to put George with all the other billionaire shit head owners and he may be like them in many ways but one way he's not like them, in my opinion, is that he goes with what his GM says. At least right now.

Why are you convinced George is calling the shots or has anything to do with calling them? "There is no evidence one way or the other but you seem to have convinced yourself."

I'm fairly certain you are dead wrong. George has nothing to do with this stuff. He leaves it up to Poles and company.

If you think he actually butts his head in this stuff, I think you are out of your freaking mind.

But it's also cool we disagree cause we are guessing here. Maybe 20 years down the road, we'll know and one of us can think about the other and how right or wrong he was.

 

[jsu34]

That's a Michael McCaskey thing, not George. That was handed to George. EVERYTHNG was handed to George. And I'm sure George loved the idea and wanted to continue with it but guess what happened, Flus got fired in the middle of the season. And guess why that happened? Because Poles thought it was the right thing to do for the Chicago Bears.

If Poles thought it was the right thing to do for the Chicago Bears to keep Flus, guess what would have happened? The Bears would have him as their head coach right now.

Why? Because George would have listened to Poles. Why? Because I think George actually knows that Poles knows a shit ton more about this than he does. I think he knows it.

You may want to put George with all the other billionaire shit head owners and he may be like them in many ways but one way he's not like them, in my opinion, is that he goes with what his GM says. At least right now.

Why are you convinced George is calling the shots or has anything to do with calling them? "There is no evidence one way or the other but you seem to have convinced yourself."

I'm fairly certain you are dead wrong. George has nothing to do with this stuff. He leaves it up to Poles and company.

If you think he actually butts his head in this stuff, I think you are out of your freaking mind.

But it's also cool we disagree cause we are guessing here. Maybe 20 years down the road, we'll know and one of us can think about the other and how right or wrong he was.

First of all: no one is saying he called the shots.
What I did say is this didn't and could not happen without his involvement.

In fact those giving behind the scenes say things such as "George realized Flus could no longer remain the head coach".

I don't get what you don't get. You act like George is at the coffee shop while the business of the bears is going on.

In fact he was aware of what went on Thursday, was present Thursday evening, made the call to allow the Flus presser, all the while meeting with Poles and Warren regarding what to do with Flus.

I don't understand why you seem to want to believe George isn't involved.

If he's only following his GM I never want to hear another word from you or anyone else about selling the team.

There's no need for another owner to come in because as you say George does what Poles says.

I call BS.

They had to run this by the McCaskeys plain and simple.

 

[Bearly]

That 6 billion is imaginary money until they sell. The poorest owners in the NFL that had never paid more than 1 yr of dead contract weren't cutting bait 2 years into a 5 yr contract.

I was surprised they offed Waldron that quickly. He had to have a few years left on that deal. Last year's Williams fiasco doesn't count. He resigned under duress to keep things quiet. However, it does point to Flus's lack of awareness and judgement in selecting his coaches. There are also lots of financial repercussion from a HC change. You will likely change your Coordinators plus some position coaches etc.

If Brown excels and gets the gig I sure hope he doesn't roll over on his staff.

 

[Bearly]

First of all: no one is saying he called the shots.
What I did say is this didn't and could not happen without his involvement.

In fact those giving behind the scenes say things such as "George realized Flus could no longer remain the head coach".

I don't get what you don't get. You act like George is at the coffee shop while the business of the bears is going on.

In fact he was aware of what went on Thursday, was present Thursday evening, made the call to allow the Flus presser, all the while meeting with Poles and Warren regarding what to do with Flus.

I don't understand why you seem to want to believe George isn't involved.

If he's only following his GM I never want to hear another word from you or anyone else about selling the team.

There's no need for another owner to come in because as you say George does what Poles says.

I call BS.

They had to run this by the McCaskeys plain and simple.

Like any business? It's called courtesy. If Poles and Warren are on board, they are no longer asking permission as it's understood that they become unlikely to remain under those circumstances, especially Warren. How many owners aren't made aware of an in season HC termination before it happens?

This argument becomes one of bias and semantics. History my be on your side but recent history of hiring a football president would have me think there was a reason for that. This was Poles decision. waiting until he could meet with the Pres and owner to do so is not unusual and actually expected.

That they couldn't do it before Flus's press conference is a different issue. That's a WTF and still feeds into your take on this org. My guess is that they got a late start on this due to a holiday after an away game and wanted to settle the new coaching structure before announcing. Timing was bad and it would have actually been better if they waited an extra day. Who knows? Maybe Flus's insistence on his incompetency being the right call in that conference expedited the events. It would sure have me steaming if I were Poles.

 

[iueyedoc]

I was surprised they offed Waldron that quickly. He had to have a few years left on that deal. Last year's Williams fiasco doesn't count. He resigned under duress to keep things quiet. However, it does point to Flus's lack of awareness and judgement in selecting his coaches. There are also lots of financial repercussion from a HC change. You will likely change your Coordinators plus some position coaches etc.

If Brown excels and gets the gig I sure hope he doesn't roll over on his staff.

I imagine the McCaskeys are spending a fair amount of time praying Thomas Brown does well enough to offer him a bottom 5 NFL HC contract and keep a large portion of the staff in place.

 

[Bearly]

I imagine the McCaskeys are spending a fair amount of time praying Thomas Brown does well enough to offer him a bottom 5 NFL HC contract and keep a large portion of the staff in place.

Dat 2... but considering their luck, they're due, LOL.

 

[Myk]

Dat 2... but considering their luck, they're due, LOL.

Have you ever noticed how people who are just bad at things blame luck?
It's a coping mechanism so they don't have to try to git gud, bro. Just ride it out and maybe someday luck will change.

Even if this is all like some of you want to believe (except GMs having free will to hire and fire, that's ridiculous, nothing has ever pointed to that and there have been times they said it wasn't that way) and McCaskeys don't pick yes men at every position or meddle/micromanage practice or team construction, we have gone way beyond luck decades ago.

As they say even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's not luck, it's not a curse, it's just bad.

Why could the Cubs and Bears be this bad? Because Chicago people keep going to games anyway. The population outgrew the capacities.
Why git gud when you get paid the same for producing a substandard product?

 

[Dstone5553]

First of all: no one is saying he called the shots.
What I did say is this didn't and could not happen without his involvement.

In fact those giving behind the scenes say things such as "George realized Flus could no longer remain the head coach".

I don't get what you don't get. You act like George is at the coffee shop while the business of the bears is going on.

In fact he was aware of what went on Thursday, was present Thursday evening, made the call to allow the Flus presser, all the while meeting with Poles and Warren regarding what to do with Flus.

I don't understand why you seem to want to believe George isn't involved.

If he's only following his GM I never want to hear another word from you or anyone else about selling the team.

There's no need for another owner to come in because as you say George does what Poles says.

I call BS.

They had to run this by the McCaskeys plain and simple.

You are not understanding. He HAS to have some involvement. As I said earlier in one of my posts. He is involved in picking the person who starts the entire merry-go-round when this team needs a new GM. And he is involved when that person (or persons) gives him 5 or whatever finalists to choose from. He picked Ted for god sakes to help him make these decisions! Right now, he's one of the huge reasons why the wrong person (or persons) has been picked every time. It's clear that if there were a pool of 20 finalists and 19 of them would be great GMs and one of them would be a terrible GM, George would try his hardest to land the terrible one.

AND...stay with me here because you seem to get lost in the weeds some, once he picks the wrong GM (we are all praying for the blind squirrel/broken clock thing to happen figuring it HAS to at some point), but once he picks the GM, then right now in the year 2024, he takes that GMs lead, stays out of the way when it comes to players, coaches and the like and let's that GM call the shots.

Do you understand? Of course he's involved, that's why we suck balls as an organization. Even Lovie Smith, whom some people love was the wrong choice, he just had HOF players on defense that no coach could have screwed up. It was pretty clear what kind of coach he was in all of his stops after CHI. Had we had a better one, that team would have actually won a ring or 2 is my guess.

But I digress and I don't want to do that because it might confuse you. Yes, George is involved and that's why we suck. And yes once that wrong GM is picked, then he pretty much stays out of it and follows his GM.

I have no idea about the presser. That's on all of them (including George) to not understand how that's going to make this org look to the country, not to mention other coaches who could lead this team to good things but might not want to after seeing something like that.

Hope you "get what you haven't been able to get" up to this point.

 

[Bearly]

Have you ever noticed how people who are just bad at things blame luck?
It's a coping mechanism so they don't have to try to git gud, bro. Just ride it out and maybe someday luck will change.

Even if this is all like some of you want to believe (except GMs having free will to hire and fire, that's ridiculous, nothing has ever pointed to that and there have been times they said it wasn't that way) and McCaskeys don't pick yes men at every position or meddle/micromanage practice or team construction, we have gone way beyond luck decades ago.

As they say even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It's not luck, it's not a curse, it's just bad.

Why could the Cubs and Bears be this bad? Because Chicago people keep going to games anyway. The population outgrew the capacities.
Why git gud when you get paid the same for producing a substandard product?

I suspect you're aware that in what you're responding to, 'luck' was facetious.

 

[jsu34]

You are not understanding. He HAS to have some involvement. As I said earlier in one of my posts. He is involved in picking the person who starts the entire merry-go-round when this team needs a new GM. And he is involved when that person (or persons) gives him 5 or whatever finalists to choose from. He picked Ted for god sakes to help him make these decisions! Right now, he's one of the huge reasons why the wrong person (or persons) has been picked every time. It's clear that if there were a pool of 20 finalists and 19 of them would be great GMs and one of them would be a terrible GM, George would try his hardest to land the terrible one.

AND...stay with me here because you seem to get lost in the weeds some, once he picks the wrong GM (we are all praying for the blind squirrel/broken clock thing to happen figuring it HAS to at some point), but once he picks the GM, then right now in the year 2024, he takes that GMs lead, stays out of the way when it comes to players, coaches and the like and let's that GM call the shots.

Do you understand? Of course he's involved, that's why we suck balls as an organization. Even Lovie Smith, whom some people love was the wrong choice, he just had HOF players on defense that no coach could have screwed up. It was pretty clear what kind of coach he was in all of his stops after CHI. Had we had a better one, that team would have actually won a ring or 2 is my guess.

But I digress and I don't want to do that because it might confuse you. Yes, George is involved and that's why we suck. And yes once that wrong GM is picked, then he pretty much stays out of it and follows his GM.

I have no idea about the presser. That's on all of them (including George) to not understand how that's going to make this org look to the country, not to mention other coaches who could lead this team to good things but might not want to after seeing something like that.

Hope you "get what you haven't been able to get" up to this point.

No, I understand completely. You are misunderstanding the power dynamic. It doesn't matter who gets hired and whether they are a good GM or bad GM (George isn't the only person involved in the hire BTW). Once they are the GM for the Chicago bears, they REPORT to George.

When it's time to make a big descision, they need to square it with George. I don't know how that flies over your head. That's how the entire world works.

 

[Dstone5553]

No, I understand completely. You are misunderstanding the power dynamic. It doesn't matter who gets hired and whether they are a good GM or bad GM (George isn't the only person involved in the hire BTW). Once they are the GM for the Chicago bears, they REPORT to George.

When it's time to make a big descision, they need to square it with George. I don't know how that flies over your head. That's how the entire world works.

How do you arrive at this stuff?

"(George isn't the only person involved in the hire BTW)"

I'm serious, how is the fuk do you come up with something like that? Where did u arrive at the conclusion I thought it was just George sitting there in his oversized race car bed doing the Dr. Evil thing with his pinky, picking a name out of a hat for our next GM?

Yes, they do "report" to George. That's right. That is correct. Who else in the world would they report to? He's the freaking chairman of this team. Would they report to Doug Kramer?

And the person they are "reporting" to now, who said to the world "I'm not a football evaluator, I'm a fan" listens to that report. This "fan" who is not a "football evaluator" listens and goes in the direction his "football evaluators" advise him to go. That's what he does right now in my opinion.

You don't have to accept this, you're more than welcome to think otherwise. It clearly fits your narrative and the story you so desperately want to believe, need to believe. I don't think you're a moron for thinking this because we are all guessing here, none of us are in these rooms, but I do think you are dead wrong.

George isn't making any big football decisions right now. He's leaving that up to people who work for him. People can work for him AND guide him into steering his toy ship in the direction they deem best for the Chicago Bears. Both things can be true. And in this situation, they are.

And a third thing can be true too and that third thing is that this team would be much better off if George's family sold this team to competent owners.

 

[jsu34]

How do you arrive at this stuff?

"(George isn't the only person involved in the hire BTW)"

I'm serious, how is the fuk do you come up with something like that? Where did u arrive at the conclusion I thought it was just George sitting there in his oversized race car bed doing the Dr. Evil thing with his pinky, picking a name out of a hat for our next GM?

Yes, they do "report" to George. That's right. That is correct. Who else in the world would they report to? He's the freaking chairman of this team. Would they report to Doug Kramer?

And the person they are "reporting" to now, who said to the world "I'm not a football evaluator, I'm a fan" listens to that report. This "fan" who is not a "football evaluator" listens and goes in the direction his "football evaluators" advise him to go. That's what he does right now in my opinion.

You don't have to accept this, you're more than welcome to think otherwise. It clearly fits your narrative and the story you so desperately want to believe, need to believe. I don't think you're a moron for thinking this because we are all guessing here, none of us are in these rooms, but I do think you are dead wrong.

George isn't making any big football decisions right now. He's leaving that up to people who work for him. People can work for him AND guide him into steering his toy ship in the direction they deem best for the Chicago Bears. Both things can be true. And in this situation, they are.

And a third thing can be true too and that third thing is that this team would be much better off if George's family sold this team to competent owners.

I get it now. George is living rent free in your head. You're trying figure out how someone like that continue failing in life and still wind up in such a position.

But you are arguing a point no one is making right now. Get over it. George is making decisions. Some of them are his alone. Some of them are at the advice of his GM. Some are at the advice of his President. Some are because his mother told him so.

I feel sad for you. Because even when you make your point, you are making my point.

When you said George hires a bad GM and then listens to them. He is still MAKING THE F*KING DECISION.

This is my final reply because you are frustrating yourself. I didn't create the situation up at Halas. You are unhappy with the McCaskeys. So are millions of others.

It is what it is.

 

[Dstone5553]

I get it now. George is living rent free in your head. You're trying figure out how someone like that continue failing in life and still wind up in such a position.

But you are arguing a point no one is making right now. Get over it. George is making decisions. Some of them are his alone. Some of them are at the advice of his GM. Some are at the advice of his President. Some are because his mother told him so.

I feel sad for you. Because even when you make your point, you are making my point.

When you said George hires a bad GM and then listens to them. He is still MAKING THE F*KING DECISION.

This is my final reply because you are frustrating yourself. I didn't create the situation up at Halas. You are unhappy with the McCaskeys. So are millions of others.

It is what it is.

George is part of the team who decides on a "panel" of folks who are selected to pick another group of people for the job of GM for this team. Then George is part of the team who decides on that GM. That's how it went last time.

And then George lets that GM (and now a president of football operations) make the football decisions going forward because as he admitted, they are the football evaluators while he is just a fan.

You are like a child who needs something really simple to be explained again and again and again.

I said I didn't think you were a moron but I'm rethinking that position.

I'll get back to you.

 

[iueyedoc]

George is part of the team who decides on a "panel" of folks who are selected to pick another group of people for the job of GM for this team. Then George is part of the team who decides on that GM. That's how it went last time.

And then George lets that GM (and now a president of football operations) make the football decisions going forward because as he admitted, they are the football evaluators while he is just a fan.

Except not firing a guy obviously over his head but with 3 years left on his contract is not a football decision, it is a financial decision.

It's really easy, do you think Poles would have extended Eberflus if he was coming out of contract with a 10 -24 record in his 2 yrs as HC?

If no, then he didn't make the decision.

If yes, well then you would be what we call special.