Youth Sports Coaching

[Ares]

My Dad wasn't hard on me nor anyone else on that Little League team.... he had no idea how to coach, he sucked, we sucked.... the poor man just enjoyed cutting grass and they forced him into coaching lol

 

[The Hawk]

I go into every season with 2 goals for the kids.

1st is for each kid to better than they were when they started the season.
2nd is to try to win as many as possible. Ive coached teams were we only won 1 game, and the kids legit stop playing or trying, but if they are winning they keep playing hard and trying. Now you do have those kids that play hard no matter if they win or lose

Sure. That should be the objective and winning sure beats losing. I also think that kids need rules to be established that they have to follow that are clear and enforced. You don't need to be a tyrant but basically the kids need to follow similar rules that any teacher would expect. I would also encourage guys coaching kids to set goals for each of them, to give them homework as in exercises to do, situational tests as in diagrams of plays to study. For example, I coached baseball so I would take illustrations from good baseball handbooks and give them to the kids to study about things like where a player should go on a relay from the outfield, baserunner signs, etc.

I also like to have team parties at pizza places, miniature golf, etc. The kids need to have fun within a structure. SOme parents and coaches take winning too far and I hate coaching from the stands and parents yelling at their kids or worse yet, the other kids.

 

[FirstTimer]

Winning is important. Getting better is important. Learning how to accept a loss is important just as how to win with grace. This is what coaches need to do otherwise all they are is a babysitter. I am BTW not talking about 2nd graders who are just learning the basics of a game. I am talking TEACHING 10-18 year old kids how to compete and win. I approach coaching as a teacher, not a baby sitter. I teach them teamwork not selfish play. I teach them respect and the consequences for not being a good teammate, of acting out, or throwing a temper tantrum. I am a good coach who has had many of his kids make a good high school team, some have gotten college scholarships, and/or signed with professional organizations. I am proud of what I did with those guys.

As for your insults, **** off. You totally missed my message in your "evaluation" of me as a parent and a coach. I have no youth sports trophies in my living room to polish. My kids, though, have a ton of them in baseball, soccer, golf, girl's softball, as well as graduating from college with honors. THAT is what is important, raising a kid that learns how to compete, is respectful toward his teammates, coaches, and teachers. The subject BTW was coaching and how to handle parents. I never coached 2nd graders because of all the "participation" rules, the trouble with a bunch of parents think that their little Jamie shouldn't follow rules, is the best player on the team, that the coach's kid gets too much play time, and on and on and on.

To be clear, I have no problem with 1st and 2nd graders playing on a "team" in which everyone plays. I just chose not to "coach" that because I didn't want to be a babysitter. It would be much too aggravating and those kids are not ready really to be taught the sport.

Back to you. **** off once again. Calling me pathetic and best of all...."deranged" is insulting and uncalled for. I am disappointed in you because normally you make sense but on this one you really showed your ass.

Ummm. So 2nd Graders are just being taught basics but by the next year or so you are focused on having them compete and win?

:aj:

What the ****?

 

[FirstTimer]

I like the idea that 2nd graders "are not really ready to be taught the sport", but once they are in 3rd grade the focus is on winning. Talk about setting kids up for failure. It sounds terrible, but in The Hawk's defense its not really all that out of step with what I have witnessed in youth sports.

“The Hawk, coach of the Ithaca Warriors,was given a lifetime suspension for striking one of his players. . . . ”

...

 

[FirstTimer]

Just remembered a story that goes along the lines of FT's 'Over the Back' call.

It was 7-8th grade football, I think the semi-finals of this league I was doing. I was refereeing, and the offense ran what amounted to a half-back option. The RB threw the balll and got lit up by a defender, well after the ball was thrown. So naturally, I threw the flag. The defensive coach went nuts saying that I can't throw a flag for roughing the passer because it was the running back that threw it.

In relation to the OVER THE BACK stuff from earlier, I had a parent yelling at an official to call OVER THE BACK for an entire half. I actually talked to the parent from the bench(of course this assclown was the guy sitting directly behind the bench) about how that's not an actual foul and he needs to back off because the official is getting annoyed and going to make us pay for it.

At half time I went over to the ref, apologized and told him if he wanted to toss the parent for being abusive or an idiot I wouldn't care or raise a stink.

3 minutes into the 3rd quarter, parent starts screaming again. Ref stops the game, and tosses the parent. I tell the parent to leave the gym, that I warned him, and the official is right.

He didn't yell the rest of the year.

 

[The Hawk]

The Hawk at least raises an interesting subtopic for this thread: at what age do you no longer expect your child to get the "2 innings of play" or "5 minutes per half" rule?

I would think at the age of 12 - so 6th grade.

Little league has rules in which they make a coach basically be a inning accountant including the number of innings a guy has pitched on a given week. Not sure anymore if they also have an imposed pitch count in a given game. ANd this actually can get difficult in how you actually coach the game because this is outside of the game itself. So what you have to do is recruit someone to keep track to make sure that little herbie gets his at bat and gets three defensive innings in. Then you have carry-over situations like one in which if Herbie doesn't get his three innings in, then he must start the next game. I hated this aspect of the game. Because to me this isn't coaching, it is like filling out a time sheet.

I am all for kids playing but sometimes the rules take priority over the game itself. I can understand the reason why the rules came into it but all that I am saying is that this kind of stuff isn't for me. There are travel teams for these ages that do not have these participation rules and though travel teams have their own kinds of "problems" , I prefer to coach actual baseball, for example, teaching a kid how to steal a base, work with catchers on throwing down to 2nd base, etc.

 

[Bigfoot]

In relation to the OVER THE BACK stuff from earlier, I had a parent yelling at an official to call OVER THE BACK for an entire half. I actually talked to the parent from the bench(of course this assclown was the guy sitting directly behind the bench) about how that's not an actual foul and he needs to back off because the official is getting annoyed and going to make us pay for it.

At half time I went over to the ref, apologized and told him if he wanted to toss the parent for being abusive or an idiot I wouldn't care or raise a stink.

3 minutes into the 3rd quarter, parent starts screaming again. Ref stops the game, and tosses the parent. I tell the parent to leave the gym, that I warned him, and the official is right.

He didn't yell the rest of the year.

Ive had to throw parents out before as well. Never in soccer, but always in basketball. This past year in the game before we played this parent lost his shit came storming onto the court yelling at the ref. Game had to be stopped and the cops were called. I just shook my just thinking what a great example he was setting for his kid.

 

[Ares]

Little league has rules in which they make a coach basically be a inning accountant including the number of innings a guy has pitched on a given week. Not sure anymore if they also have an imposed pitch count in a given game. ANd this actually can get difficult in how you actually coach the game because this is outside of the game itself. So what you have to do is recruit someone to keep track to make sure that little herbie gets his at bat and gets three defensive innings in. Then you have carry-over situations like one in which if Herbie doesn't get his three innings in, then he must start the next game. I hated this aspect of the game. Because to me this isn't coaching, it is like filling out a time sheet.

I am all for kids playing but sometimes the rules take priority over the game itself. I can understand the reason why the rules came into it but all that I am saying is that this kind of stuff isn't for me. There are travel teams for these ages that do not have these participation rules and though travel teams have their own kinds of "problems" , I prefer to coach actual baseball, for example, teaching a kid how to steal a base, work with catchers on throwing down to 2nd base, etc.

See we never had this problem.... teams were small enough that you generally had like 90% of the team playing defense with just 2-3 sitting out and often we had kids wanting an inning off lol so the coaches had to force someone out into RF every inning. And batting is batting.... have the order and you batted however much you batted, not much choice in it.

 

[Ares]

Ive had to throw parents out before as well. Never in soccer, but always in basketball. This past year in the game before we played this parent lost his shit came storming onto the court yelling at the ref. Game had to be stopped and the cops were called. I just shook my just thinking what a great example he was setting for his kid.

Petulant children grow up and become petulant parents...

 

[Omeletpants]

One, any decent coach would intrinsically do this. Two, the fact that 'win-at-all-cost' youth coaches would routinely have their best pitcher throw 140 pitch games is the very genesis of the rule which you now detest. I recommend that you read the book "The Arm" by Jeff Passan. You might learn something from it.

As a kid from 9-15 I was a good pitcher. We played baseball all day during the summer: organized games at 9, noon and 6pm, then Little league, off the wall and even softball. I was throwing the ball all day, everyday. Then one day my arm went dead. Could no longer throw with any velocity. By 15 I was done as a pitcher

 

[Ares]

The Hawk hated having to fill out a 'batting order'. He would rather have his best hitter bat every time. Thats not coaching, thats like filling out a time sheet.

Is that not how it works in college or MLB? Best pitcher vs best batter all game... and then you just have that like shadow base runner thing you would have in pickup games where you assume the base runners advance on every hit.

 

[The Hawk]

But that's not what you said, nor what I responded to, which was : The worst "coaching" is with elementary aged kids where everyone must play and winning is looked upon with askance and participation is more important.

Kids who are 12-18 aren't "elementary aged". Sorry that you did not remember what you had said, which apparently could have saved you embarrassment. And even your follow up comment is kind of stupid, as their is a huge difference between teaching 10 year old kids and teaching 18 year old kids. To act as if they are one entity is ridiculous.



No. I did not totally miss your message. I quoted you verbatim and responded. I think its people like you that have ruined youth sports. You make it out to be life-and-death, then couch your own athletic misgivings in terms of 'coaching' and 'life lessons'. Its pathetic, IMO.



Great, glad we cleared that up. Something as trivial as 'participation' is below your station. Got it.



Yeah, I guess you weren't 'clear' in your previous posting. You sound like a terrible coach..."kids are not ready really to be taught the sport"....GTFO.



Your posts are self-serving and provide great insight as to your feelings. Participation is annoying, kids can't be taught, 3rd grade is the starting point for 'win at all costs' mentality. Even though you made a half-hearted attempt to backtrack, I stand by my original comments and apologize for nothing. Your thoughts on youth sports are terrible.

**** off. I said that I didn't want to be a baby sitter which early youth sports is all about. That is my right as a guy who knows a lot about baseball at every level. Your opinions are worthless pieces of garbage. Instead of asking me questions about what I meant by my statements as any civil person would, you made a piece of shit determination calling me pathetic and deranged. I know baseball and how to teach the sport. You left a discussion about the handling of kids and parents which was a good one and instantly sprang into an attack on me. Why?

All you are is a smug asshole who likes to insult. You like to wordsmith statements and attribute meaning to others without an understanding of anything. ANd, asshole, You are a liar. I said nothing about WINNING AT ALL COSTS. I said that winning is important. Never said PARTICIPATION IS ANNOYING. I said that TO ME, that I didn't like to coach and to work around the RULEs set up that are outside of baseball itself. Never said KIDS CAN'T BE TAUGHT. I said that you really cannot "TEACH" baseball to a second grader among a group of 12-13 young kids. At that age kids just want to play, cannot stay attentive, screw around with their friends, etc. YOU twisted what I did say, liar.

 

[FirstTimer]

**** off. I said that I didn't want to be a baby sitter which early youth sports is all about.

2nd grade=babysitting
3rd grade=JUST WIN BABY

I am BTW not talking about 2nd graders who are just learning the basics of a game. I am talking TEACHING 10-18 year old kids

 

[The Hawk]

Lets cut the shit here. The interesting subtopic regarding The Hawk is that he coaches youth sports. That was an 'eye-opener' for me.

I actually started coaching at the college level in graduate school as a grad assistant at Kent State University. Thurman Munson was on that team. I then as a parent coached at the little league level, on to Pony league. THen after my kid decided not to play high school ball, I coached baseball for four years in high school and in travel ball for high school kids. Won many tournaments and regional championships in the Mickey Mantle baseball system (15-16 yr olds), and took two teams to their national championship tournaments in Harligen, Texas, finishing 2nd in one and 3rd in another.

BTW, I got your "eye" insult. Typical same insultng shit by you. I came damn close to losing my eye in Viet Nam so **** YOU for that also. You really are a big time piece of shit asshole. My eyes are fine now thank you very much. Good enough to see how fucked up you are.

 

[The Hawk]

Pitch count limits are for pussies.

Pitch counts are a smart thing and that is usually where the pitching coach comes in along with talking to the pitcher and find out how he feels. The younger the kid the more careful you have to be with his arm. Strength training is also very important. Coaches also have got to get acquainted with the allure and danger of steroids coming into the picture with kids in high school. IT exists and some of it is actually encouraged by parents believe it or not.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Little league has rules in which they make a coach basically be a inning accountant including the number of innings a guy has pitched on a given week. Not sure anymore if they also have an imposed pitch count in a given game. ANd this actually can get difficult in how you actually coach the game because this is outside of the game itself. So what you have to do is recruit someone to keep track to make sure that little herbie gets his at bat and gets three defensive innings in. Then you have carry-over situations like one in which if Herbie doesn't get his three innings in, then he must start the next game. I hated this aspect of the game. Because to me this isn't coaching, it is like filling out a time sheet.

I am all for kids playing but sometimes the rules take priority over the game itself. I can understand the reason why the rules came into it but all that I am saying is that this kind of stuff isn't for me. There are travel teams for these ages that do not have these participation rules and though travel teams have their own kinds of "problems" , I prefer to coach actual baseball, for example, teaching a kid how to steal a base, work with catchers on throwing down to 2nd base, etc.

See I just don't understand the stuff in bold. You say you're all for the kids playing, but you don't want to keep track of how much they are playing? My 11-12 coach taught us all the basics - hammered it into us is more like it - but we all got to play at least three innings a game, hit once a game, and we only lost 3 games over the course of two seasons. All of this can be done.

And there is no way you shouldn't be concerned with the amount of pitches a kid has thrown.

 

[FirstTimer]

The Hawk is just an angry 75 year old man.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

In case anyone cares, the IHSA has put in place a pitch count rule for the first time this year. Not exactly sure what they cap at, but I believe it's weekly and not per game or anything like that. My buddy, who is the HC for a very successful program loves it. Not sure if it's because of the health of the player, or because he has 7 pitchers with at least D-2 talent.

 

[The Hawk]

Ummm. So 2nd Graders are just being taught basics but by the next year or so you are focused on having them compete and win?

:aj:

What the ****?

A second grader is seven years old. Little league to me starts at ten years old. To me, there is a big difference in terms of maturity between seven years old and ten years old within anykind of a "team setting". A parent can do his kid a favor by trying his best to teach his own kid the game by hitting pop up and ground balls to him at a local park and maybe have him bring a buddy or two with him. And by the time you get the kid to ten years old you can tell which kid got help from his dad or mom or brother or sister and got a leg up on the other kids.

Back in the dark ages, my friends and I would go out to a local park choose up sides and play maybe 4 or 5 games on a Saturday or Sunday. It is too bad that doesn't exist anymore for a number of reasons. When we didn't have enough players we played stuff like anything to left field was an out or anything right of second base was an out,etc. THen we played where we had to hit from the other side. I guarantee, that we learned without an adult around how to hit and generally play the game

 

[FirstTimer]

A second grader is seven years old.

No, old man. I have a mid-fall birthday(pretty standard). I started second grade when I was 8. I started first grade at 7. I started Kindergarten at 6. REALLY standard. When I "graduated" 2nd grade I was 9. I started 3rd grade as a 9 year old and "graduated" 3rd grade as a 10 year old. This is pretty typical.

So for basketball or baseball in 2nd and 3rd grade in your mind I(and millions of other kids) would have gone from:

2nd grade=babysitting
3rd grade=JUST WIN BABY