Youth Sports Coaching

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Hawk,

What are your thoughts on HS coaches who start seniors on Senior Night in place of more talented underclassmen?

 

[FirstTimer]

I don't think that is correct becuse that would make more kids graduating high school at 19 years old and I know that isn't true. Most kids graduate high school at 17 or 18 years old assuming that they don't get held back a year.

I confused entering "baseball season" with "school year"

I turned 8 in second grade(entered 2nd grade at 7).

I turned 10 in 4th grade(entered 4th grade at 9).

Your stance still make no sense. You're still arguing that in 2nd grade you're just a babysitter but by 4th grade you're teaching kids how to compete and win almost exclusively?

Makes no sense.

I played AAU basketball and coach it and we aren't getting highly competitive until 7th grade or so when you start getting kids splitting off from their school teams.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

My son of Italian immigrants HS football coach would tell me later that his favorite thing about coaching was giving varsity letters to the kids who never played. He said that making those kids feel special was why he kept coaching for so long.

 

[Ares]

One game my Dad went off on the Umpire and got thrown out.... we had 1 other Dad who assisted and he wasn't there that game.

By the time anyone realized this my Dad had stormed off to the parking lot.

So my team just kinda freelanced for an inning and then the Umpire had to go get my Dad to coach the rest of the game.

At the time it was odd and horrifying, but looking back on it I lmao

 

[LordKOTL]

I have had it both ways honestly. I have kids were Im constantley telling them to pay attention, and saying their name over and over. I look over at the parent like uh you want to jump in. They laugh, and Im thinking so your kid is not listening being disruptive and you think its funny. Ok

I have had other parents same situation yank their kid off the field, and lecture them.

I have noticed the kids that pay attention and listen are extremely respectful and the parents are involved. Were as the kids that dont want to listen and follow rules, parents are usually on their phone and so disconnected from their own kids.

Well, there's 2 versions of the terrible youth sport parent--and probably more (for the 5-9 set--so beginning Kindergarten through sometime in the 4th grade based on my recollection).

There's the type that lives vicariously through their kid's successes because they can't stomach the fact that they wound up as a cog in the machine and want to Jack Johnson their kids (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_(ice_hockey) - See "Legal Issues")--which tend to be the one blithering about playing time and bad calls, etc. because "widdle pwecius" can do no wrong, and a borderline strike (assuming LL baseball) is what's going to prevent their kid from winning the the triple crown when they turn 25 :smh:.

The 2nd type was the one I was referring to mainly--the type that tried to get their kids in all kinds of sports/activities growing up--many of which the kids don't want to do, to the point of recockulousness. Those are the ones that tend to treat you like a babysitter. And of course the kid is completely disinterested, doesn't want to pay attention because they don't want to be there.

I'm all for an occasional break for a parent, but jamming your kid into an activity they don't like is just going to breed resentment--plus, it disrupts the learning/growing process of the kids that *want* to be there.

 

[Tater]

One game my Dad went off on the Umpire and got thrown out.... we had 1 other Dad who assisted and he wasn't there that game.

By the time anyone realized this my Dad had stormed off to the parking lot.

So my team just kinda freelanced for an inning and then the Umpire had to go get my Dad to coach the rest of the game.

At the time it was odd and horrifying, but looking back on it I lmao

A story like this without a mention of a kid named Taco is just.... :smh:

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm all for an occasional break for a parent, but jamming your kid into an activity they don't like is just going to breed resentment--plus, it disrupts the learning/growing process of the kids that *want* to be there.

The kids that want to be there will turn on the kids that are disinterested. My son and a couple of thr older kids would try everything they could to get them interested, and it does effect the moral of a team. All it takes is 1 kid to start acting like a goofball next thing you know 3-4 kids are acting like goofballs.

Where i live is all about sports. The parents are insane at times, and take it seriously all from u5 on up its crazy sometimes. I've had parents tell other parents to take their kid home cause they shouldnt be playing. Puts the coach in an awkward spot, cause you have to coach the parents as much as the kids.

 

[The Hawk]

Sorry, I have no idea who you are or your background. I had no idea that you almost lost an eye in Vietnam. I'm not omniscient.

You were the one who made this thread go off the rails. I responded to your verbatim comment of: The worst "coaching" is with elementary aged kids where everyone must play and winning is looked upon with askance and participation is more important.

I said that your attitude is what is wrong with youth sports. I said that participation is more important for young kids than the coach's trophy case. I stand by my original comments and apologize for nothing. You turned this into some type of personal referendum which was not my intent. Its not about you. Its about youth sports. Your continued comments on this thread just reinforce my original statement. Each post of yours is some type of 'humblebrag' about how YOU took 3rd place in the Soda Pop Valley Gorman Thomas baseball league or how YOU were a grad assistant for Thurman Munson, etc.

I'm not disputing your 'success' as a coach. Congratulations on your achievements. I'm not saying you are a bad parent (HUH?) or a bad person, I'm saying I disagree with your comments on youth sports. You definitely aren't in the minority with your opinions...in fact, the pervasiveness of what you say illustrates my point.

Nope. That doesn't get it. A few of us were in a conversation about coaching youth sports and you jumped into my shit and personally insulted me. ALso, it is pretty common knowledge about my eye history and I do not believe your claim of not knowing anything about it.

THe thing with you is that although you are obviously smart and actually can have interesting and good posts about things, you also are a prick to likes to insult people that you disagree with. You also by your own words think that you are ever so smarter than anyone else.

I approached this from a coaching perspective which the thread was all about. You jumped into my shit about the whole participation thing. Truth is that while others were discussing stories about how to handle idiot parents you derailed the conversation into my wanting to "Win at all costs". I think that I made it crystal clear what my coaching priorities were and what my experience level is. You called it "humble brag". I put that out there for information to clarify what my experience level is.

Your personal attack on me was fucked up. The fact that you didn't apologize or back off from it just underscores what a conceited asshole you are.

 

[The Hawk]

It just means you were a shitty coach who was lazy.

Whatever you say, little one.

 

[The Hawk]

Hawk,

What are your thoughts on HS coaches who start seniors on Senior Night in place of more talented underclassmen?

I'm all for it. In most cases this will be the last baseball game for them.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I'm all for it. In most cases this will be the last baseball game for them.

But doesn't that go against the philosophy of being anti-participation? What if the team for that Senior Night is against a rival? Or you need to beat that team to make the playoffs?

 

[The Hawk]

I confused entering "baseball season" with "school year"

I turned 8 in second grade(entered 2nd grade at 7).

I turned 10 in 4th grade(entered 4th grade at 9).

Your stance still make no sense. You're still arguing that in 2nd grade you're just a babysitter but by 4th grade you're teaching kids how to compete and win almost exclusively?

Makes no sense.

I played AAU basketball and coach it and we aren't getting highly competitive until 7th grade or so when you start getting kids splitting off from their school teams.

I tire of this argument because it is absurd. If you enjoy putting a bunch of 7 year olds out on a field somewhere and have them play at a game thats just peachy with me. If you want me to roll a ball to little Pedro, I'll help you even. But I do not call that coaching, it is more babysitting than anything else. I'm not putting it down and I think that a father or mother who wants to do that is good to do it. It is just not my cup of tea.

BY the way, there is a lot of difference between a 7 year old kid versus a 10 year old kid in maturity, understanding discipline, physical ability etc. Ask any teacher.

 

[The Hawk]

I would hope my kid's academic and professional future does not go up in smoke the moment he receives a "Participant" ribbon in his Cub Scout Pinewood Derby.

Who knew sports were so important? Let me guess, you were the Joe Maddon of Tball, racking up 1000 wins by incredible margins. You did a stint in Vietnam. You coached in college at ASU and Barry Bonds played for you. You would have played MLB yourself had you not gotten injured in the minors. Etc. etc. etc.

THere you go again, mocking someone who has an opinion that isn't correct in your estimation.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I'm pretty sure I knew the concept of the cut-off man and keep my glove on the ground to field a ground ball when I was in t-ball. I would have been six at the time.

 

[The Hawk]

Re-reading this thread, and while NONE of makes sense, this stood out to me. 15 years old is the average age for an incoming freshman. If your kids were 12 years old when they entered high school, then that must have been from the "Reconstruction Era" of US history where grades 1-12 were taught in a single classroom schoolhouse.

I don't get it.

15 years is unusual for kids entering high school. The average age is something like 13-14. Most kids graduate high school at 17-18.

 

[The Hawk]

But doesn't that go against the philosophy of being anti-participation? What if the team for that Senior Night is against a rival? Or you need to beat that team to make the playoffs?

Now you are talking something more specific. IF the game is important to getting the team into the play-offs, then I do not do that but I would try to get the senior into the game. But the kid(s) would know the importance of the game to his team and be all right with it I believe. By the way, nowhere I have ever coached had a "Senior" game.

 

[The Hawk]

The kids that want to be there will turn on the kids that are disinterested. My son and a couple of thr older kids would try everything they could to get them interested, and it does effect the moral of a team. All it takes is 1 kid to start acting like a goofball next thing you know 3-4 kids are acting like goofballs.

Where i live is all about sports. The parents are insane at times, and take it seriously all from u5 on up its crazy sometimes. I've had parents tell other parents to take their kid home cause they shouldnt be playing. Puts the coach in an awkward spot, cause you have to coach the parents as much as the kids.

What I did in little league was if a kid talked back or was a bad teammate, I'd pull them out of the game and have them sit with their parents in the stands. THen after the game we would personally discuss what happened and why I did what I did. Do this a couple of times and the kids do not act up nearly as much

 

[The Hawk]

I'm pretty sure I knew the concept of the cut-off man and keep my glove on the ground to field a ground ball when I was in t-ball. I would have been six at the time.

You'd be the exception to the rule. I'd bet that you had a dad who taught you that. I'm not sure about the cut-off comment, though

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

You'd be the exception to the rule. I'd bet that you had a dad who taught you that. I'm not sure about the cut-off comment, though

See this is where I just don't understand what your argument is all about. Yeah, I had a pretty good idea of basic concepts of baseball when I started playing because I had a father who taught me, but we know that is not the case for all kids. It would seem, especially given your background, that you're punishing the younger kids by not coaching them simply because you don't like the concept of everyone having to participate.

 

[The Hawk]

I had no idea about your 'eye history', you experience in Vietnam, etc. My comments were obviously directed toward your postings on youth sports. Here was my original post, note what I am responding to from your posting:



I would hope participation is more important. What the heck do you think you are 'winning' with elementary aged kids? Thats completely deranged.

If I put my 2nd grader on a sports team, my expectation is that they at least 'participate', no matter how terrible my kid is. Thats kind of the whole point...get them into sports early so that they have the opportunity to try something new and improve themselves. I couldn't care less if "The Hawk" is polishing another "Youth Sports Championship" trophy in his living room. Thats just pathetic on your part.


I stand by my comments. I'm not sure where I am 'personally attacking' you. Placing such emphasis on winning with elementary-aged kids is deranged. It serves no higher purpose. Its vain. I think its pathetic that your 'success stories' of elementary school coaching is strictly confined to wins and losses, and not the personal relationships.

Again, I don't care what your 'experience level' is. I don't care that you coached Thurman Munson. YOU are the one making it personal by droning on about that stuff. I was merely responding to your comments on Youth Sports Coaching in a thread titled "Youth Sports Coaching".

I'm not sure what I am supposed to say at this point. Sorry about the alleged 'eye' insult; that wasn't my intent. I'm not sure why/how I am supposed to 'apologize' for disagreeing with your outlook on Youth Sports Coaching...I think young kids need to be taught the fundamentals of sport...I think 3rd grade is too young to focus on winning at the expense of participation...I think its asinine/illogical to hold the diametric beliefs that 2nd graders are too young to be taught sports, yet 3rd graders are ready for sincere competition. If that is 'personally insulting' to you, then so be it. I cannot control that. I agree with you on other topics, I disagree with you on this. Lets move on.

Bottom line. You lied about my saying anything about 3rd grade and winning at the expense of participation. I was talking about little league and put out the ten year old - 18 year old range in which kids should learn how the game gets played. There were a lot of ways you could have chosen to question what I was talking about my participation and winning comments. But instead of doing it in a civil way, you jumped into my shit and called me deranged, pathetic, wanted to win at all costs, polished my trophy's and otherwise mocked me.

Sure. Lets move on.