Yu Darvish on the move?

[PickSix]

Where is this narrative about great player development coming from? New facilities does not equal great player development. Please enlighten me on the organizations track record in this area. And if they are so good at it why do we need these low level Padre guys instead of assuming their own drafted players won’t be future mlb material.
If this is all Jed could get, should have waited until TDL. I get not getting a haul like the CWS did for Sale or Q, but this return is pure salary dump.
If the Ricketts are so over leveraged and hemorrhaging that they couldn’t afford Yu for half a year, then there are really long dark days ahead.

 

[knoxville7]

Where is this narrative about great player development coming from? New facilities does not equal great player development. Please enlighten me on the organizations track record in this area. And if they are so good at it why do we need these low level Padre guys instead of assuming their own drafted players won’t be future mlb material.
If this is all Jed could get, should have waited until TDL. I get not getting a haul like the CWS did for Sale or Q, but this return is pure salary dump.
If the Ricketts are so over leveraged and hemorrhaging that they couldn’t afford Yu for half a year, then there are really long dark days ahead.

meh, they needed prospects from the Padres because the Padres have been losing until last year and stockpiling high draft picks...like the cubs did years ago. The cubs on the other hand have been winning and getting less advantageous positioning in drafts. It’s really that simple.

 

[CSF77]

that’s just pure speculation on your part to say a “better gm would of gotten more.” You don’t know that.
And yes, Yu is capable of being a #1 still. But for how much longer? He’s 34 years old. Jon Lester is 36, and we saw how much of a drop off he has experienced from age 34 to 36. And that’s just one example of aging pitchers. If you think Yu commanded some top prospect(s), well you’re just viewing it thru homer glasses

my point at the start was Snell brings more in a trade than Yu because of the age difference. You seem to think Yu should of gotten as much of a return as snell did, which is ludicrous. No GM in their right mind would give as much up for Yu as they would snell.

It ties to velocity. He is avg 95.5 MPH. When that nosedives he needs to be more like Hendricks. The fact that he has a huge arsenal increases his longevity.

Look at Rich Hill. He didn't amount to shit until 36. He reworked his curve and strengthened his lower body as he was lacking strength on his lower half. He reenvented himself and became relivant when most pitchers fall off.

Age is a vague term. It is a crutch that people use to deflate people.

 

[knoxville7]

It ties to velocity. He is avg 95.5 MPH. When that nosedives he needs to be more like Hendricks. The fact that he has a huge arsenal increases his longevity.

Look at Rich Hill. He didn't amount to shit until 36. He reworked his curve and strengthened his lower body as he was lacking strength on his lower half. He reenvented himself and became relivant when most pitchers fall off.

Age is a vague term. It is a crutch that people use to deflate people.

you named an exception not the rule. Most pitchers, hell players in general, decline with age. Father Time is undefeated. Odds say Yu will decline at a decent rate in the next couple years

 

[CSF77]

Where is this narrative about great player development coming from? New facilities does not equal great player development. Please enlighten me on the organizations track record in this area. And if they are so good at it why do we need these low level Padre guys instead of assuming their own drafted players won’t be future mlb material.
If this is all Jed could get, should have waited until TDL. I get not getting a haul like the CWS did for Sale or Q, but this return is pure salary dump.
If the Ricketts are so over leveraged and hemorrhaging that they couldn’t afford Yu for half a year, then there are really long dark days ahead.

If you look at the self development from the Cubs it bodes well. Eloy and Torres alone makes a argument. Then Soler. The list goes outside of the players who put on the stripes.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

A better GM would have gotten more. This particular "mid-30's pitcher" should have won the Cy Young. He isn't just a typical P. He's still quite capable of being the #1.

No. He should not have unless we're pretending that Trevor Bauer was't better and accomplished what he did.

I'm all about liking the cubs/the players, and I've like Yu Darvish for a long time--but this is just stupid/contrarian for the sake of being so.

Yu is still capable of being a #1 guy. Crazy concept I know--but 2 things can be true at the same time...

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Where is this narrative about great player development coming from? New facilities does not equal great player development. Please enlighten me on the organizations track record in this area.

Ummmm....were you in a coma in 2016?

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344013563661221889

 

[knoxville7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344013563661221889

yikes....full on fire sale it sounds like

 

[PickSix]

Ummmm....were you in a coma in 2016?

Nope. Loved every minute of it including the World Series that I went to. How much home grown developed talent impacted that year?
I’ll give you KB, Baez and Schwarbs (ws only and bust after that). All high end first round can’t miss draft picks. Most of that team was bought and paid for or traded for. I don’t remember any second round or later draft picks that were developed helping the club. I’m probably wrong again, so fill me in. I must be missing some home grown pitching on that team.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Nope. Loved every minute of it including the World Series that I went to. How much home grown developed talent impacted that year?
I’ll give you KB, Baez and Schwarbs (ws only and bust after that). All high end first round can’t miss draft picks. Most of that team was bought and paid for or traded for. I don’t remember any second round or later draft picks that were developed helping the club. I’m probably wrong again, so fill me in. I must be missing some home grown pitching on that team.

Awesome. Moving the goalposts solely to where a guy was drafted and not the 'great player development' part (your exact words). The world series "core" part of the team gets less credit because your argument has no weight otherwise.

Willy Contreras. Almora. Soler. Rizzo. Eloy. Gleyber Torres. Candelario. Cease. Arrieta. Kyle Hendricks.

Guess the cubs didn't develop or have a hand in developing to some capacity--a single one of these guys because they weren't the cubs' own high draft picks...

 

[PickSix]

Awesome. Moving the goalposts solely to where a guy was drafted and not the 'great player development' part (your exact words). The world series "core" part of the team gets less credit because your argument has no weight otherwise.

Willy Contreras. Almora. Soler. Rizzo. Eloy. Gleyber Torres. Candelario. Cease. Arrieta. Kyle Hendricks.

Guess the cubs didn't develop or have a hand in developing to some capacity--a single one of these guys because they weren't the cubs' own high draft picks...

Not looking to start a pissing match. You are too smart for me to go down that path. My point is that the best prospect we got in the deal is a second round pick not in their top prospect list. Thinking that the great Cubs development machine is going to turn any of this haul into a gold nugget is silly. This was a salary dump plain and simple. I think Jed should have got a better prospect with better odds of making an impact. Just my opinion.

 

[wonky73]

I guess I should learn to be careful about what I wish for. I wanted a complete rebuild and it looks like it's happening.

 

[Castor76]

I said that if the Cubs didn't think they could build a contender for 2022, they should sell this year and just get the rebuild going. Did Jed get the best deal? I don't know. I would have like to have seen a potential front line starter come back in the draft but perhaps they are going to go with the stay with the idea of signing most pitching from FA and building bats.

 

[beckdawg]

Fangraphs' prospect guy talked a bit about the trade return. He is going to have Preciado on his top 100 list which give the trade a bit better look. For reference, he has him rated higher than Howard. He didn't have a ton of info on Mena/Caissie so if they appear better than they did in the previous scouting the trade probably wont look quite as lopsided as people currently think

 

[knoxville7]

Fangraphs' prospect guy talked a bit about the trade return. He is going to have Preciado on his top 100 list which give the trade a bit better look. For reference, he has him rated higher than Howard. He didn't have a ton of info on Mena/Caissie so if they appear better than they did in the previous scouting the trade probably wont look quite as lopsided as people currently think

its almost as if the cubs might of gotten a very respectable return for a 34 year old starting pitcher owed a good bit of money over his age 34-37 seasons. Cubs did just fine in this trade. Fans are just upset because it’s the end of an era. They aren’t ready to have to rebuild. It was “expected” this would turn into a dynasty and not just a 1 and done

 

[Castor76]

Darvish has one stint on the DL missing more than 4 starts and fans would have been screaming why didn't the Cubs trade him when his value was at its highest.

It's the same gamble they're taking with Bryant. If he has any DL trouble his value stays low unless he's killing it the 3 weeks before the deadline and even then it would be hurt versus him being what's expected through June and a pre-ASB trade.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'm all about liking the cubs/the players, and I've like Yu Darvish for a long time--but this is just stupid/contrarian for the sake of being so.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you aren't in a position to tell me I am just being contrarian for contrarian sake. Oh the strawmen Jed bootlickers have posted here. No one has stated he is worth what Snell got. Trevor Bauer is a fucking FA and irrelevant to the discussion. Snell brought back 2 top ten prospects to the Rays. Darvish should have brought back 1 top ten out of the Padres system. That isn't much to ask out of the 4 they received in return that one is a top ten. That isn't putting him at the same level as Snell either.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Idk. I've never met the guy.

He's a very knowledgeable baseball guy and not a Cubs fan. He said the Cubs didn't get back what they should have.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

He's a very knowledgeable baseball guy and not a Cubs fan. He said the Cubs didn't get back what they should have.

We'll see. Im somewhere in the middle on this trade. But to be honest any trade for prospects is a question mark until you see what the guys turn into at the big league level.