1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[CODE_BLUE56]

But considering the fact that Jordan abruptly "retired" before the start of training camp, and considering the numerous additions to the roster, for Pippen to have the team only lose 2 more games from the season prior, is as good as case as any for MVP.

going with what hou said...lets not act like that chicago team was pippen and a bunch of crap..they had two other all stars and a solid overall team...yes pippen had a good overall year...but i dont think he was as good as olajuwon that year or even robinson...

yes team success is important in the mvp discussion...but i think olajuwon was the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER that year

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

So who were the Bulls going to lean on? Pete Myers?

Come on man.

How about a balanced offense of B.J. Armstrong, Toni Kukoc, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams with John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Cartwright/Luc/Wennington all adding extra depth.

Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Mario Elie, and rookie Sam Cassell at under 20 min/gm is not a supporting cast that you'd think could win a Championship. Hakeem just took his game to a whole 'nother stratosphere that season.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

im not underrating pippen..i think y'all are just underrating how good olajuwon really was that year

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And argument can be made for Pippen, but if Pippen came through the way Hakeem did, Bulls might have won a title that year. Also Pippen had 2 other allstars on his team...who did Hakeem have? Hakeem is the only player to singlehandedly win a title. You can't name another player that did it. Hakeem was definitely the better player and he deserved the MVP...second best player in the 1990's in my opinion.

I'd say Vernon Maxwell was somewhat better than B.J. but other than that yeah.... Horace Grant kills Otis Thorpe. The Bulls were a lot deeper than the Rockets too.

The Rockets depended on their inside-outside game that season. Hakeem and his extraordinary all-around skills in the post gave the Rockets all the wide open three's they could ever 'dream' of--- pun intended.

Hakeem>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pippen

 

[woe]

olajuwan was great that year,it was a close mvp race in my opinion,could have went either way

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

im not underrating pippen..i think y'all are just underrating how good olajuwon really was that year

It seems like Bulls' fans seriously overrate Pippen while most everybody else slightly underrates him.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

olajuwan was great that year,it was a close mvp race in my opinion,could have went either way

The point is that it had no business being a close race. Hakeem was FAR more valuable. And, hell, a lot better as a player too.

 

[eternityw]

eneryone has his own vision, somebody likes pippen, other one hakeem, third one magic johnson, etc.
there are as many visions as people on the earth. that is my opinion.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

eneryone has his own vision, somebody likes pippen, other one hakeem, third one magic johnson, etc.
there are as many visions as people on the earth. that is my opinion.

That's kind of a cop-out though.

 

[eternityw]

That's kind of a cop-out though.

we are talking about who is the best player or the best players we know? everyone has a choice to decide who is his favourite. statistics is not all in basketball. wins can be earned different ways. somebody likes creativity style? somebody likes team based on defense, somebody on offense. who cares about individual view about it?

or there is only 1 man in the world who decides who is the best?

 

[Glide2keva]

The point is that it had no business being a close race. Hakeem was FAR more valuable. And, hell, a lot better as a player too.

Not taking away from Hakeem, but considering what Pippen was given that year, I'd cast my vote for him.

Olajuwan was outstanding that year.

No, the Bulls weren't Pippen and scrubs. He had two other all-stars. Horace should've been an all sar, but he kept getting snubbed prior to 94 and BJ only made it to fill Jordan's spot, not because he had a great year.

I'm not overrating what Pippen did, I'm putting it exactly where it needs to be. Sure no one was MORE important to the 6 titles, but it's not a stretch to say that Pippen was JUST AS important as Jordan was to them.

And the Bulls' "marginal" success was a bullshit call in the ECSF that knocked out of getting to the ECF.

 

[97Bulls]

Well, I have to disagree because the Bulls would have gotten someone else who could score if Pippen was never there. Pippen was never one of the best scorers in the league but he was always well-rounded in what he could do offensively (which was ideal for Jordan to pass off to when doubled/tripled because he could always give up the rock and they could swing the ball to Pip and chances were that he would get a good look no matter where he was in the triangle).

I am fairly sure Jordan was bound to win multiple championships no matter where he played with--- or with whom. Pippen benefited a LOT more from Mike than vice versa.

Pippen routinely was in the top 20 scorers in a league of about 450 players. And that's playing behind jordan. In 94 he was 8th and in 95 he was again in the top 10 before jordan came back.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I'm not forgetting about Pippen's amazing versatility on defense and stellar rebounding either. But it's not like he was DPOY material... he really never was. What he was, was a guy who could guard anybody and score decently in every way. Jordan could have benefited almost as much as a great slasher/shooter and solid defender. Maybe he wouldn't have 6 titles, but he'd still likely have a few.

There is a huge differance between six titles and just a few.....Jordan is thankful for his savr and guardian angel....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Not taking away from Hakeem, but considering what Pippen was given that year, I'd cast my vote for him.

Olajuwan was outstanding that year.

No, the Bulls weren't Pippen and scrubs. He had two other all-stars. Horace should've been an all sar, but he kept getting snubbed prior to 94 and BJ only made it to fill Jordan's spot, not because he had a great year.

I'm not overrating what Pippen did, I'm putting it exactly where it needs to be. Sure no one was MORE important to the 6 titles, but it's not a stretch to say that Pippen was JUST AS important as Jordan was to them.

And the Bulls' "marginal" success was a bullshit call in the ECSF that knocked out of getting to the ECF.

I don't think we are ever going to see eye to eye then because it seems to me that Olajuwon had even less in terms of talent and depth and yet did more with it. His team was far more dependent on him than the Bulls were on Pippen, and his team had the better record. And Hakeem actually had the ball in his hands always at the end of games... as a center. That, to me, makes the obvious choice to vote for Hakeem. Not even to mention he was by far the best player in the NBA.

And sure. If Pippen suffered a devastating injury during in '91, '92, '93, '97, or '98 the Bulls would have had no chance at winning a title. But my point is that Jordan would have won titles (plural) regardless because Reinsdorf would have found an athletic wing who would have developed excellent basketball skills playing and under the scrutiny everyday with/against Jordan.

And I didn't like that call either. But let's face it... nobody got more benefit-of-the doubt calls than Michael Jordan. And the Bulls were lucky to not be down 0-3 thanks to Kukoc bailing the team out.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

There is a huge differance between six titles and just a few.....Jordan is thankful for his savr and guardian angel....

For all you know, he could have won all 6 with a non-Pippen wing man. You don't know and nor do I.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

They benefited from each other. Scoring isn't always the most important thing. Pippen was the perfect player to compliment Jordan because he was longer and just as good a defender and could handle the ball, and make plays.

You can say that they could've gotten another scorer, but how many other guys would tailor their game to compliment Jordan? not many.

Pippen should not even be debatable as far as importance to the Bulls titles. Jordan was a transcendent player, no doubt. You will never see me trash him to prop up Pippen. But, I saw Pippen play live every home game at the end of 93, all of 94-96, and what I saw was a guy playing his best and keeping a team afloat when their best player left and helped to win titles when he came back.

So, I don't get where the Pippen diminishing is coming from. He was not Pete Myers and he certainly wasn't as replaceable as you seem to suggest.

Right on brother!!!!!!!!!!:support:

 

[eternityw]

Lile Phil Jackson said: "Bulls could beat the rockets if mj wouldn't leave a team" ))))

 

[97Bulls]

I'm not forgetting about Pippen's amazing versatility on defense and stellar rebounding either. But it's not like he was DPOY material... he really never was. What he was, was a guy who could guard anybody and score decently in every way. Jordan could have benefited almost as much as a great slasher/shooter and solid defender. Maybe he wouldn't have 6 titles, but he'd still likely have a few.

WTF? He wasn't dpoy material? He led the league in defensive efficiency in 95. That means he was the best defender in the league. He led the league in stls the bulls in 95, the bulls were second in the league in team defense. And that's all pippen. He had guys like b.j. armstrong, kukoc, kerr, larry krystowiak, corie blount, dickie simpkins, seeing major minutes and starting. How he had that team ranked top 2 in defense is nothing short of amazing. And they were on pace to win 44 games. Just as a reference, the great kobe bryant, led the lakers to a 38-44 record with lamar odom and coron butler on his team.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Pippen routinely was in the top 20 scorers in a league of about 450 players. And that's playing behind jordan. In 94 he was 8th and in 95 he was again in the top 10 before jordan came back.

Pippen was the beneficiary of countless Jordan doubles and triples. And he was an ideal player for the triangle offense.

In 1994, he only averaged 22 points per-game and it was always around that point anyway. The only reason it was as high as it was, was because Pippen needed the ball more in his hands because Jordan was gone. Pippen's FG attempts went up and so did his FT attempts because of all the shots Jordan would have been taking couldn't just be made up by the addition of Toni Kukoc.

Also, when Jordan left, Pippen's assists went down and turnovers went up.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

WTF? He wasn't dpoy material? He led the league in defensive efficiency in 95. That means he was the best defender in the league. He led the league in stls the bulls in 95, the bulls were second in the league in team defense. And that's all pippen. He had guys like b.j. armstrong, kukoc, kerr, larry krystowiak, corie blount, dickie simpkins, seeing major minutes and starting. How he had that team ranked top 2 in defense is nothing short of amazing. And they were on pace to win 44 games. Just as a reference, the great kobe bryant, led the lakers to a 38-44 record with lamar odom and coron butler on his team.

Do you know who was 6th of DEF EFF this season? Carlos BOOOOOZER.

I rest my case.

And no. Hakeem was light years the better defender/defensive player than Pippen. So was David Robinson and Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo.