1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[RamiTheBullsFan]

WTF? He wasn't dpoy material? He led the league in defensive efficiency in 95. That means he was the best defender in the league. He led the league in stls the bulls in 95, the bulls were second in the league in team defense. And that's all pippen. He had guys like b.j. armstrong, kukoc, kerr, larry krystowiak, corie blount, dickie simpkins, seeing major minutes and starting. How he had that team ranked top 2 in defense is nothing short of amazing. And they were on pace to win 44 games. Just as a reference, the great kobe bryant, led the lakers to a 38-44 record with lamar odom and coron butler on his team.

PS- Here are 2 teams way better on defense than the Bulls were in '94:

the Knicks.

the Rockets.

Hakeem = MVP

 

[houheffna]

The point is that it had no business being a close race. Hakeem was FAR more valuable. And, hell, a lot better as a player too.

And would somebody please look at the numbers the Admiral put up that year?

 

[eternityw]

Do you know who was 6th of DEF EFF this season? Carlos BOOOOOZER.

I rest my case.

And no. Hakeem was light years the better defender/defensive player than Pippen. So was David Robinson and Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo.

those centers can't guard first and second number on the court. so you are not right. i agree they are great deffenders under the rim, but pippen was best individual and team defender for my opinion.

 

[97Bulls]

im not overrating scoring as much as you think..but keep in mind...to win a game you have to put the ball more times in the basket than the opponent...at the end of the day...to be great you have to be able to carry a team not just from a ballhandling or playmaking perspective(btw he averaged 5.6 APG...good but i dont think he was an exceptional point forward by any means...not to say he wasnt good though)...but also carry the offense by putting the ball in the basket...which is what shows on the scoreboard

plus all those things you mentioned that pippen does..its not like pippen was the best at those or that olajuwon and other big men didnt do any of those things(the ballhandling thing is not what big men like robinson and olajuwon were designated to do)

Oh come off it code. Out of the guys that seem determined to undermine pippens contributions, you seem to be the most reasonable. Him avg 6 assists a game was nothing short of amazing considering he was passing to guys that weren't really good scorers. Pete myers and jojo english were supposed to be the scoring guards, neither could shoot or attack the basket. Ive never seen guys blow more wide open midrange jumpshots. If pippen has a guy that could avg 20 ppg to replace those two hed easily avg 8 assists a game. Maybe 9. You need to look at the context.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

those centers can't guard first and second number on the court. so you are not right. i agree they are great deffenders under the rim, but pippen was best individual and team defender for my opinion.

Olajuwon could guard the perimeter, too. And was a great team defender. So you are wrong. And Ewing, 'Zo, Dikembe, and Robinson and Olajuwon were so great under the rim that, that (in itself) made them more valiant forces on D than Pippen was.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Oh come off it code. Out of the guys that seem determined to undermine pippens contributions, you seem to be the most reasonable. Him avg 6 assists a game was nothing short of amazing considering he was passing to guys that weren't really good scorers. Pete myers and jojo english were supposed to be the scoring guards, neither could shoot or attack the basket. Ive never seen guys blow more wide open midrange jumpshots. If pippen has a guy that could avg 20 ppg to replace those two hed easily avg 8 assists a game. Maybe 9. You need to look at the context.

Horace Grant isn't a good scorer?!

B.J. Armstrong is a good pick and roll scorer and one of the best three-point shooters EVER!

Kukoc could shoot the lights out and was great off the dribble at 6'11''.

Please... you are just pulling at strings for Pippen now with NOTHING as a basis.

 

[Glide2keva]

Oh come off it code. Out of the guys that seem determined to undermine pippens contributions, you seem to be the most reasonable. Him avg 6 assists a game was nothing short of amazing considering he was passing to guys that weren't really good scorers. Pete myers and jojo english were supposed to be the scoring guards, neither could shoot or attack the basket. Ive never seen guys blow more wide open midrange jumpshots. If pippen has a guy that could avg 20 ppg to replace those two hed easily avg 8 assists a game. Maybe 9. You need to look at the context.

Context doesn't matter.

 

[Glide2keva]

Horace Grant isn't a good scorer?!

B.J. Armstrong is a good pick and roll scorer and one of the best three-point shooters EVER!

Kukoc could shoot the lights out and was great off the dribble at 6'11''.

Please... you are just pulling at strings for Pippen now with NOTHING as a basis.

Nevermind the fact that that was Kukoc's rookie year and Horace wasn't as good a scorer as you make him out to be, let's just keep acting like Pippen had a championship squad full of stars and should've won the title.

Olajuwan had a more complete team than Pippen had, period. They weren't all stars, but they contributed mightily to that team.

 

[97Bulls]

Do you know who was 6th of DEF EFF this season? Carlos BOOOOOZER.

I rest my case.

And no. Hakeem was light years the better defender/defensive player than Pippen. So was David Robinson and Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo.

But he wasn't 1st. And he hid alot. Look at the context as to why boozer was ranked 6th. Thibs routinely had him on the opposing teams worst low post big. And there alot of them nowadays. Looka at this past seasons ecf. He was defending joel anthony who passes up open dunks. What did he (anthony) avg 1.8 ppg? How the **** do you avg 1.8 ppg when a basket is worth 2 fuggn pts? Off course he's gonna get a high defensive rating. Pippen on the other hand came in first while defening the other teams best scorer 1-3 and sometime even 4 and 5. Pippen was robbed when he didn't win dpoy in 95.

 

[houheffna]

Oh come off it code. Out of the guys that seem determined to undermine pippens contributions, you seem to be the most reasonable. Him avg 6 assists a game was nothing short of amazing considering he was passing to guys that weren't really good scorers. Pete myers and jojo english were supposed to be the scoring guards, neither could shoot or attack the basket. Ive never seen guys blow more wide open midrange jumpshots. If pippen has a guy that could avg 20 ppg to replace those two hed easily avg 8 assists a game. Maybe 9. You need to look at the context.

Looking at the context, if he has a versatile wing scorer out there who didn't need assistance to score, he might have an equal amount, maybe less assists. There was a system in place that allowed Pippen to handle the ball and set up the offense. He did not run an offense the way Lebron James did in Cleveland. The Bulls had the triangle offense in place and the coaches to coach the offense.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And if the Rockets had Drexler in '94, they probably win close to 70 games that season. 8 assists doesn't matter... He could have averaged 8 assists without Jordan... but he would have averaged at least 5 turnovers too and the Bulls would have lost a lot more often. Pippen was who he was. And that is nowhere near Hakeem.

 

[Glide2keva]

And if the Rockets had Drexler in '94, they probably win close to 70 games that season. 8 assists doesn't matter... He could have averaged 8 assists without Jordan... but he would have averaged at least 5 turnovers too and the Bulls would have lost a lot more often. Pippen was who he was. And that is nowhere near Hakeem.

So, Pippen was nothing then?

That's what it sounds like you're saying. Every good point someone makes about Pippen, you do nothing but tear it down.

What is your deal?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Nevermind the fact that that was Kukoc's rookie year and Horace wasn't as good a scorer as you make him out to be, let's just keep acting like Pippen had a championship squad full of stars and should've won the title.

Olajuwan had a more complete team than Pippen had, period. They weren't all stars, but they contributed mightily to that team.

The Bulls had a more sophisticated offense than the Rockets easily. Houston was the team that broke all of the rules. Nobody thought a team that shot as many threes as they did could win a title. The Bulls had just as good shooters yet they could not win a ring that season. Why? Because Pippen is no Hakeem. Hakeem got their shooters all the looks they ever could have wanted and then some with his scoring, quickness, ball-handling, and passing. The guy was a phenom. Pippen was an all-around 2nd option guy who was missing a 1st option guy.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

So, Pippen was nothing then?

That's what it sounds like you're saying. Every good point someone makes about Pippen, you do nothing but tear it down.

What is your deal?

My deal is that people have the audacity to compare Pippen to Olajuwon. I nowhere said Pippen sucks. I said he is nowhere near as good as Hakeem. And he isn't. Nor was he as valuable that season.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

^that was my point...pippen is a good passer and he flourished in the triangle offense(@hou) but he isnt the natural point forward james is..doesnt mean he wasnt a great passer tho

and whether or not the bulls team was better(which i do think it was overall imo) or the rockets team was better, i still think olajuwon had a higher impact on the game than pippen and was the most valuable player in the league that year,as evident in the regular and post seasons

olajuwon was probably the best defensively in the league at that point...and he was also a monster on the offensive end.....no big men now can score 27 PPG(except amare maybe but his defense and rebounding are nowhere close to Olajuwon's) he was great at going inside and also doing damage with the midrange

im not saying pippen was not a top 5 player in the league at that point..hell he may have been the 2nd best behind olajuwon..but even then when pippen was arguably at his best...he still was not the best player in the league...because even as the primary team scorer...his offense was good but not on par with jordan,robinson,ewing,malone,etc....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I wouldn't say Pippen was better than Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Robinson, Stockton, or Gary Payton in 1994.

 

[97Bulls]

Nevermind the fact that that was Kukoc's rookie year and Horace wasn't as good a scorer as you make him out to be, let's just keep acting like Pippen had a championship squad full of stars and should've won the title.

Olajuwan had a more complete team than Pippen had, period. They weren't all stars, but they contributed mightily to that team.

Lol kukoc didn't even speak english. Pippens best scorer after him was a rookie that couldn't speak english. Stockton had a night in and out 30 ppg scorer in karl malon and another good scorer in jeff hornacek.

And im not even gone list what magic had.

 

[eternityw]

I wouldn't say Pippen was better than Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Robinson, Stockton, or Gary Payton in 1994.

i would say he was best in my eyes, he was smarter then those players. playoffs, 93, 96, 97 and 98 finals showed us why

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lol kukoc didn't even speak english. Pippens best scorer after him was a rookie that couldn't speak english. Stockton had a night in and out 30 ppg scorer in karl malon and another good scorer in jeff hornacek.

And im not even gone list what magic had.

Magic wasn't in the league at that point.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Horace Grant was a very under-appreciated player. He brought rebounding, interior defense, very good post scoring, a mid-range jumper, and pick and roll offense to the Bulls.

To say that Kukoc was Pippen's 2nd best scorer in 1994 shows you don't know much about that team at all.