1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[Glide2keva]

Hell even the 1998 Bulls to the '87 Lakers would be good. I just don't want to talk about Pippen being the MVP of '94 anymore... or about the Bulls teams that just couldn't get over the hump. I'd rather talk about the Jordan teams. That's just me.

I understand, but the Bulls are more than just Jordan. Also, a lot of those Jordan teams couldn't get over the hump.

94 was a special year because it was the first time in a long time we didn't have Jordan to cheer for and the team had a ton of new players and they were still good. I love that team. In my top 10 all time Bulls teams.

Some people really have an affinity for that team, you can't blame them. If you're not interested in it, don't participate I say.

 

[Glide2keva]

ehhhhh clutch can also refer to performing well defensively under pressure as well..in general clutch is performance under pressure..although there are alot of different connotations

i do agree that we tend to associate clutch with playmaking and shot making on the offensive end..but being clutch on the defensive end is also important(as i think pippen was)

This is what I mean.

 

[Glide2keva]

Lol thanx for clearing that up for him.

I try man. I know from another forum and i respect you as a real Bulls fan and not just a fan of one player.

 

[Glide2keva]

Yeah I get that. I just got tired of SP94 bumping his same topics over and over again. It's always about Pippen or it's about the savior J.R.....

I'm just as tired of the JR talk as you are. I've been tired of this conversation way back when it was the savior T-Mac, or Melo, or lebron, etc.

 

[DCguy]

Being clutch to me is very subjective and it varies from person to person. I think being clutch is making the right play during big games and crucial points of games. To me it's not about shot making all the time, it can be at times, but it's more of just having the composure late in games to make the right play, whether it's a pass, a shot, or a steal.

To me a player missing a shot doesn't make them not clutch and making a big shot doesn't always make a player clutch. If it's a smart basketball play and they took the right shot, that is clutch to me. So when I heard some say Rose choked because he missed the shot at the end of game 4 against Miami; I disagree with that. To me he just missed the shot. But people will call u clutch if u make it and then turn around and say you are afraid of the moment if you miss it.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

After reading this post again, I rethought my opinion.I am going to just say I'm sorry guys.I was wrong.I am now convinced that Pippen was greater than I admitted in my responses.I was wrong and SP1994 wwas correct about everything. I am embaressed and sorry for being stupid.Pippen should of got the mvp in 94 and 96.Thanks to SP1994 I am converted and a better man.THANKS SCOTTIEPIPPEN1994. You are the best poster on this site and my favorite. I wish I could be more like you.

Thank you Rami........I knew you would eventually see the light.....I see I have a new fan..Even idiots like you can see reason at times..But keep in mind, you are still not completely off the hook. It will take time for you to earn my trust as my main servant..

 

[houheffna]

How many times really were the bulls in a position like dirk and the mavs? And dirk has been the man for 13 years. He didn't have a jordan on his team.

Yet he was considered to not be a clutch player based roughly on 2 years. Specifically 2 postseasons. His 13 years of being the man didn't seem to sway any opinions. He didn't have a bunch of allstars on his team, and he definitely didn't have Jordan.

 

[houheffna]

ehhhhh clutch can also refer to performing well defensively under pressure as well..in general clutch is performance under pressure..although there are alot of different connotations

i do agree that we tend to associate clutch with playmaking and shot making on the offensive end..but being clutch on the defensive end is also important(as i think pippen was)

Clutch play is connected to offense...defense is more consistent. When people think of clutch play, they usually are talking about the player with the ball in his hands, no matter what sport. Fair or unfair, that is usually how its viewed.

But that is why I stated that Pippen wasn't clutch offensively, I said that explicitly.

 

[houheffna]

The problem with people is that they have become obsessed with individual stats and focus less on what someone does for the team in its' entirety.

Because Scottie didn't lead the league in any particular category, people can easily dismiss his impact on games. He wasn't a big scorer, but he scored when we need it. He was exactly what those Bulls teams needed, and what Jordan needed in a second guy. He may not have had the most clutch offensive game, but remember him hitting big shots (Game 6 against the Knicks in 93, Game 6 against the Knicks in 94, Indiana regular season in Indy, etc.) His clutch factor can be measured on the defensive end and his ability to defend multiple positions when his team needed him to.

But let's underrate him because he didn't score 30ppg and average 15apg.

I'm so sick of these wanna be ESPN analysts, go work at the mothership where you can get paid to sound like a moron (Screamin' A. Smith, Skip Bayless, etc.)

How about you STFU and get a clue...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Clutch play is connected to offense...defense is more consistent. When people think of clutch play, they usually are talking about the player with the ball in his hands, no matter what sport. Fair or unfair, that is usually how its viewed.

But that is why I stated that Pippen wasn't clutch offensively, I said that explicitly.

again yes, clutch is associated more with making plays with the ball on the offensive end...but being clutch or performing well on the defensive end in pressure situations is also important..such as lebron locking down rose in the ECF in the final seconds..thats clutch...not offensively clutch but defensively clutch because he maintained composure and had a great defensive possession under pressure

 

[97Bulls]

although it may be unfathomable to you:

A.The team with the best player in the NBA does not always win the title...Lebron was the best player this year but dirk won the title that doesnt make dirk the best player all of the sudden. In the original argument(whoever the hell started this crap) someone said that Pippen was the best player in the NBA..and i argued he never was even at his peak because he wasnt that great of an offensive player...kevin garnett was not the best player in the league in 08..im not arguing overall career greatness...im arguing was he ever the top player in the league and the answer is no....because as a player he was good but not great offensively
Maybe were misunderstanding each other. Im not gonna go so far as to say pippen was the best player in the league. I said you don't need to be the BEST SCORER on your team to lead a team to a championship. But even still. Tim duncan was arguablt the best player in the mid 00s. He barely scored more than pippen. Magic never lead the league in scoring. Bill russell was a relatively terrible scorer and he has the mvp named after him.

B.You're arguing overall career greatness...the thing is we have no idea how pippen would have done by himself for a long duration..we can speculate for hours..but you're never going to know exactly...yes titles is a huge part of greatness..but being the best player in the NBA correlates to MVPs and not necessarily titles(TEAM wins rather than individual) and overall career greatness
Obviously we will never know. But this goes both ways. Which is what I've always maintained. Pippen never had the chance to lead a credible team to a championship.

i know scoring is not the most important thing in sports....thanks for the reminder...did you come here also to tell me we landed on the moon?
if you asked me I would've told you

but he was never the best player in the NBA..which is what the argument was about..even at his best in 93-94 and as the leader of his team he was not the best player in the nba...or he would have won the MVP

Mvps aren't won the best player. They're won by the best that did the most or best job under circumstances. Look at steve nash.

 

[97Bulls]

Yet he was considered to not be a clutch player based roughly on 2 years. Specifically 2 postseasons. His 13 years of being the man didn't seem to sway any opinions. He didn't have a bunch of allstars on his team, and he definitely didn't have Jordan.

Yeah but those were monumental losses. Being up 2-0 with home court. Loosing to an 8th seed as a 1st.

 

[houheffna]

Yeah but those were monumental losses. Being up 2-0 with home court. Loosing to an 8th seed as a 1st.

Isn't that hypocritical? Dirk was clutch all year in his MVP season...and in 2006, did ANYBODY see that game 7 against San Antonio? He proved over and over that he was a good clutch player.

 

[97Bulls]

Isn't that hypocritical? Dirk was clutch all year in his MVP season...and in 2006, did ANYBODY see that game 7 against San Antonio? He proved over and over that he was a good clutch player.

Hypocritical how? Pippen was never in that situation. The bulls were underdogs vs the knicks and the magic.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Maybe were misunderstanding each other. Im not gonna go so far as to say pippen was the best player in the league.

good..because he never was

I said you don't need to be the BEST SCORER on your team to lead a team to a championship. But even still. Tim duncan was arguablt the best player in the mid 00s. He barely scored more than pippen. Magic never lead the league in scoring. Bill russell was a relatively terrible scorer and he has the mvp named after him.

Duncan in his prime was a better offensive player than pippen..he had a go to move(had more 20 PPG seasons as well)..pippen never really did...bill russell is from a very different era...magic is the best passer to ever play in the nba...and arguably he was actually a better scorer than pippen(maybe a little inflated by the fact that he played in a fast paced offense

i agree about scoring not necessarily correlating to championships..i never made an argument against what you said regarding that

but mvp/the best player in the league does not necessarily correlate with championships either

Obviously we will never know. But this goes both ways. Which is what I've always maintained. Pippen never had the chance to lead a credible team to a championship.

no point to argue about shit that never happened

Mvps aren't won the best player. They're won by the best that did the most or best job under circumstances. Look at steve nash.

yes..but also the MVP is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER or the player with the most value/made the most impact on the court...

steve nash should not have won two mvps(and the mid 2000s was a serious down time for the nba imo) but you cant argue with how much he impacted the game orchestrating the phoenix offense in dominant fashion and putting up efficient numbers...i could make an argument that he was the best player in the league then...


considering that pippen had two all stars on his team and reasonable depth along with kukoc...its not like pippen had nothing to work with

arguably hakeem had quite a bit less to work with and was the best inside player in the nba at that point..AND led his team to 58 wins and an nba title with no all stars

pippen had a great season no doubt as the bulls leader but he was not the mvp nor was he the best player in the league...

 

[97Bulls]

good..because he never was



Duncan in his prime was a better offensive player than pippen..he had a go to move(had more 20 PPG seasons as well)..pippen never really did...bill russell is from a very different era...magic is the best passer to ever play in the nba...and arguably he was actually a better scorer than pippen(maybe a little inflated by the fact that he played in a fast paced offense

i agree about scoring not necessarily correlating to championships..i never made an argument against what you said regarding that

but mvp/the best player in the league does not necessarily correlate with championships either




no point to argue about shit that never happened




yes..but also the MVP is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER or the player with the most value/made the most impact on the court...

steve nash should not have won two mvps(and the mid 2000s was a serious down time for the nba imo) but you cant argue with how much he impacted the game orchestrating the phoenix offense in dominant fashion and putting up efficient numbers...i could make an argument that he was the best player in the league then...


considering that pippen had two all stars on his team and reasonable depth along with kukoc...its not like pippen had nothing to work with

arguably hakeem had quite a bit less to work with and was the best inside player in the nba at that point..AND led his team to 58 wins and an nba title with no all stars

pippen had a great season no doubt as the bulls leader but he was not the mvp nor was he the best player in the league...

I honestly think grant and armsrtong were centamental all-star picks. Career-wise, I believe thorpe was better. Kukoc was good but he had to adjust to the nba game, and like I stated earlier, he couldn't even communicate with his team. There was no chemisrty other than he knew how to play basketball. Armsrtong and maxwell were similar, but the rest of the core players really land in the rockets favor. Elie, horry, cassel, smith and herrea, are better than longley, williams, myers, king, and kerr.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Not sure if this was done yet, didn't feel like going through 36 pages to find out but here we go...

Game 1: WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- SimLeague Basketball Boxscore

Game 2: WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- SimLeague Basketball Boxscore

Game 3: WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- SimLeague Basketball Boxscore

Game 4: WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- SimLeague Basketball Boxscore

Game 5: WhatIfSports.com: Fantasy Sports Simulation -- SimLeague Basketball Boxscore

1994 Bulls win series 4-1

Close thread

Thank You...This is the best reply on this thread...It is the very point of the meant to be topic and point of this whole post...like I said from the very beginning of my post,"1994 Bulls win series 4-1 ....And no one has to be an expert to figure it out...:crazydance::crazydance::crazydance:

 

[clonetrooper264]

Thank You...This is the best reply on this thread...It is the very point of the meant to be topic and point of this whole post...like I said from the very beginning of my post,"1994 Bulls win series 4-1 ....And no one has to be an expert to figure it out...:crazydance::crazydance::crazydance:

Goodness gracious he made sense. :bizarro:

But seriously, someone remind me how this turned into a Scottie Pippen argument.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Goodness gracious he made sense. :bizarro:

But seriously, someone remind me how this turned into a Scottie Pippen argument.

I hear you... its a shame how this turned a Pippen war..This was started when Hue Hefna and Rami the bulls fan started posting ignorant untrue staements about Pippen and making it a mission to bash his greatness and try and misinform or mislead readers of this forum who may never have seen him play...I am a loyal knight that defended King Pippen with facts..

 

[eternityw]

to scottiepippen1994. Sometimes mindset and individual thoughts can't feel and know the truth that is for real.