1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[DCguy]

I don't agree that professional teams overachieve, in this case the 1994 and 2011 Bulls teams. What they did was just play better than what the media and most fans/observers thought. Using the word "overachieve" to make an excuse for why that particular team played better than they anticipated.

Just as when teams don't play up to expectations. They don't underachieve, they just didn't play as good as the average observer thought. So the 1994 Bulls team players played their roles very well, that's not overachieving, that's just them playing to their potential that the doubters didn't see.

 

[Glide2keva]

I agree. I hate that they always say the Bulls overachieved. They beat who was in front of them and most experts had them in the ECF and it wasn't a stretch.

They got exactly where I thought they would.

 

[houheffna]

Under the criteria used today; pippen would've won the mvp. I even think had pippen not missed 10 games in 94, the bulls definately end up with the best record. And then he's a lock.

Under the critieria today...Olajuwan would have won the MVP because just like Barkley, Malone and Kobe, he was one of the elite players in the league for a decade and had no hardware to show for it. He was one of the top 5 players in the league for quite a while and was not disliked by the media.

And if you look at today's critieria, again, Pippen had 2 allstars on his roster and Hakeem had how many??? Wasn't that the argument used on this forum for Rose? Iverson? They did more with less...so did Hakeem.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Under the critieria today...Olajuwan would have won the MVP because just like Barkley, Malone and Kobe, he was one of the elite players in the league for a decade and had no hardware to show for it. He was one of the top 5 players in the league for quite a while and was not disliked by the media.

And if you look at today's critieria, again, Pippen had 2 allstars on his roster and Hakeem had how many???

Bingo.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

i dont understand where this pippen mvp or best player in the league talk started

he had a great season and was all nba for the 93-94 season

but he was most definitely not the most valuable player in the league(in fact he wasnt in the top 5 in win shares that season although i think he was a top 5 player btw win shares factors in 52% defense and 48% offense)


olajuwon was clearly better that season and robinson and ewing might have been as well

 

[houheffna]

i dont understand where this pippen mvp or best player in the league talk started

he had a great season and was all nba for the 93-94 season

but he was most definitely not the most valuable player in the league(in fact he wasnt in the top 5 in win shares that season although i think he was a top 5 player btw win shares factors in 52% defense and 48% offense)


olajuwon was clearly better that season and robinson and ewing might have been as well

Absolutely. And the Bulls were a top team that year...though nobody had them winning a title, even going into the playoffs. The Rockets had gone on a huge winning streak to start the season. And were considered favorites with the Sonics and the Knicks...nobody believed in the Hawks and most didn't have much faith in the Bulls, especially when meeting the Knicks. I believe the scariest team in the league was Seattle though, not Houston.

The Bulls were NOT the better team...remember the Knicks were favored by many to beat the Bulls the previous season...with Jordan. I even remember Peter Vecsey on NBC before game 1 saying the Knicks would win in 4 or 5 games...he echoed the feelings of a lot of people at that time. The fact that the Bulls took the Knicks to 7 was a shock to many.

So while Pippen had a fantastic year, there were not as many kool aid drinkers as some would have you believe. I didn't think that team could win a title with Myers replacing Jordan...I just knew better, it was common sense. They supposedly had a chance to get Hornacek from Philly, but Krause being Krause...the deal didn't happen and Hornacek winded up going to Utah for Jeff Malone.

The shooting guard position was in worse shape than it is in now. They were not going to beat anybody worth beating in the playoffs with that situation not taken care of...

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Under the critieria today...Olajuwan would have won the MVP because just like Barkley, Malone and Kobe, he was one of the elite players in the league for a decade and had no hardware to show for it. He was one of the top 5 players in the league for quite a while and was not disliked by the media.

And if you look at today's critieria, again, Pippen had 2 allstars on his roster and Hakeem had how many??? Wasn't that the argument used on this forum for Rose? Iverson? They did more with less...so did Hakeem.

So basically your saying that because Hakeem was a top 5 player for years before he won mvp that the NBA owed him the award????.....I will not say that hakeem didn't deserve the mvp, but I feel that pippen deserved it just as much in the 94 season...Maybe they sould of had 2 mvp awards that season.....The mvp race was almost too close to call that year....Never the less, I was very happy when the rockets destroyed the knicks though....Lucky for the Rockets that they didn't have to face the bulls in the finals beuase they will of gave them a hell of a lot more than brickshot starks and the knicks...No one will ever know..Shoulda woulda coulda...

 

[houheffna]

So basically your saying that because Hakeem was a top 5 player for years before he won mvp that the NBA owed him the award????.....I will not say that hakeem didn't deserve the mvp, but I feel that pippen deserved it just as much in the 94 season...Maybe they sould of had 2 mvp awards that season.....The mvp race was almost too close to call that year....Never the less, I was very happy when the rockets destroyed the knicks though....Lucky for the Rockets that they didn't have to face the bulls in the finals beuase they will of gave them a hell of a lot more than brickshot starks and the knicks...No one will ever know..Shoulda woulda coulda...

It wasn't close...

1993-94 NBA Awards Voting | Basketball-Reference.com

I can think of some robberies in MVP races...this wasn't one of them. And I will say it again, if anyone had beef, it might have been David Robinson. He had a big year..

 

[97Bulls]

It wasn't close...

1993-94 NBA Awards Voting | Basketball-Reference.com

I can think of some robberies in MVP races...this wasn't one of them. And I will say it again, if anyone had beef, it might have been David Robinson. He had a big year..

I think it was close similarly to the year kobe won his mvp vs chris paul. And its was basically understood that the winner of that last game would get the mvp. Kobe and the lakers won the game and then he won the voting by a landslide. But it was close in peoples eyse. Not the actual voting

 

[houheffna]

I think it was close similarly to the year kobe won his mvp vs chris paul. And its was basically understood that the winner of that last game would get the mvp. Kobe and the lakers won the game and then he won the voting by a landslide. But it was close in peoples eyse. Not the actual voting

Kobe won the MVP because he was the best player in the league to not win the MVP. He finally met the criteria that the writers silently have laid out since 1980...

1. Top player in the league
2. High level statistical year
3. Team finishes top 3 in conference
4. Team success despite large disparity between best player and other players talent-wise (Rose, Iverson, Jordan's 1st MVP...)

You need to meet 3 of those in any given year to be a viable candidate, according to how writers have voted over the past 30 years.

Kobe would win because he was the best player in the league and had great years the two years Nash won the award, but his team didn't finish high enough to warrant the MVP.

There was only speculation over two candidates for the award...Olajuwon and Robinson...Pippen was not in the conversation. And if you look at the criteria...San Antonio finished 4th that year in the West, so Robinson was eliminated in 1 category, while Olajuwon was strong in all 4.

 

[97Bulls]

Kobe won the MVP because he was the best player in the league to not win the MVP. He finally met the criteria that the writers silently have laid out since 1980...

1. Top player in the league
2. High level statistical year
3. Team finishes top 3 in conference
4. Team success despite large disparity between best player and other players talent-wise (Rose, Iverson, Jordan's 1st MVP...)

You need to meet 3 of those in any given year to be a viable candidate, according to how writers have voted over the past 30 years.

Kobe would win because he was the best player in the league and had great years the two years Nash won the award, but his team didn't finish high enough to warrant the MVP.

There was only speculation over two candidates for the award...Olajuwon and Robinson...Pippen was not in the conversation. And if you look at the criteria...San Antonio finished 4th that year in the West, so Robinson was eliminated in 1 category, while Olajuwon was strong in all 4.

he was in the convo. I see like this. It took career years from olajuwan and robinson to deny pippen. And even still, by your own admission, the mvp olajuwan won was more of a lifetime achievement award.

 

[clonetrooper264]

he was in the convo. I see like this. It took career years from olajuwan and robinson to deny pippen. And even still, by your own admission, the mvp olajuwan won was more of a lifetime achievement award.

Yes he was in the conversation. He was the best player on one of the top teams in the East. That gets him one category. He had a very good statistical season which got him another. However his position as the best player in the league is, obviously, heavily disputed. That, and the talent discrepancy between Pippen and, say, Grant, was not as large as that between Olajuwon and whoever you consider the 2nd best player on that team (Thorpe or Maxwell or whoever). Plus, both Robinson and Olajuwon had better statistical seasons. By those criteria, I can't argue against Hakeem getting it over Pippen. This is not to say that Pippen wasn't MVP caliber, just that other players had a better argument than Pippen that season.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

if it was close then why wasnt it close in the voting?

because of perception

pippen was certainly a top 10 player that year, maybe top 5..

but looking at the body of work that season..clearly olajuwon and robinson were better...and possibly ewing

was pippen the best SF? arguably yes...but he was not the MVP

 

[houheffna]

he was in the convo. I see like this. It took career years from olajuwan and robinson to deny pippen. And even still, by your own admission, the mvp olajuwan won was more of a lifetime achievement award.

But that was Pippen's career year...and those players had better years, some would say much better years. That said, Pippen was in the convo in Chicago...maybe, but not nationwide...

"Hakeem Olajuwon. David Robinson.
Ask 100 people their choice for the NBA's Most Valuable Player this season, and you'll probably get nearly a 50-50 split.
The only certainty here is that a player from Texas will become the first center to win MVP honors since Moses Malone did it with the Philadelphia 76ers in 1983."
Jerry Bembry-Baltimore Sun (April 19, 1994)

His attitude sums up the attitude of the national media at the time.

And think about this, you can't name 1 player on that Rockets team that was as good as Luol Deng....

 

[scottiepippen1994]

But that was Pippen's career year...and those players had better years, some would say much better years. That said, Pippen was in the convo in Chicago...maybe, but not nationwide...

"Hakeem Olajuwon. David Robinson.
Ask 100 people their choice for the NBA's Most Valuable Player this season, and you'll probably get nearly a 50-50 split.
The only certainty here is that a player from Texas will become the first center to win MVP honors since Moses Malone did it with the Philadelphia 76ers in 1983."
Jerry Bembry-Baltimore Sun (April 19, 1994)

His attitude sums up the attitude of the national media at the time.

And think about this, you can't name 1 player on that Rockets team that was as good as Luol Deng....

Behold, the official king of hate, Hue Hefner........

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg]‪Internet Bridge Troll‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[97Bulls]

But that was Pippen's career year...and those players had better years, some would say much better years. That said, Pippen was in the convo in Chicago...maybe, but not nationwide...

"Hakeem Olajuwon. David Robinson.
Ask 100 people their choice for the NBA's Most Valuable Player this season, and you'll probably get nearly a 50-50 split.
The only certainty here is that a player from Texas will become the first center to win MVP honors since Moses Malone did it with the Philadelphia 76ers in 1983."
Jerry Bembry-Baltimore Sun (April 19, 1994)

His attitude sums up the attitude of the national media at the time.

And think about this, you can't name 1 player on that Rockets team that was as good as Luol Deng....

How bout otis thorpe? And who the hell is jerry brembry? And I. Checked the resluts for the past like 5 mvps. And 94 compared was a lot tighter 1-3 than any of them.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

How bout otis thorpe? And who the hell is jerry brembry? And I. Checked the resluts for the past like 5 mvps. And 94 compared was a lot tighter 1-3 than any of them.

I'm glad you wrote that friend..because I was just about to myself..Thank you for your good work on this thread....Doesn't it feel great to be one of the few and proud that knowthe truth???????Knowlege is power and we are blessed with logic and it pisses off the fools here..that's why they continue to argue with us until infinity..It doesn't matter what you or I say here, because there just isn't any hope when it comes to trying to convince natural born jagg offs...Its really sad...We must forgive them and hope that scientists keep working on finding the cure for ignorance..I just donated a large sum of cash bonds to there worthy cause...
:support:

 

[eternityw]

MVP voting is based on player's statistic and team success in regular season. but there is no stats like "forced turnovers", "changed opponent shot", "pressure", etc

 

[scottiepippen1994]

MVP voting is based on player's statistic and team success in regular season. but there is no stats like "forced turnovers", "changed opponent shot", "pressure", etc

Pip was the heartbeat of the bulls team and the engine that made them go in 94...even on the other bulls teams with jordan around......This was also proven again in the 98 season when pippen was on th injured list...During that time, the bulls struggled to win half there games...When Pippen returned to the line up, it fueled the team to go on multiple long winning streaks...You see, without Pip they were an average team..

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

As good as Pippen was, Hakeem was much

much

much

much

much

better.

All those little "intangibles" you watched (while not watching the Rockets) that Pippen had... the DREAM had intangibles too.

Anybody who thinks Pippen was robbed of the MVP is

flat

out

wrong

By this year's standards, Hakeem deserved MVP.

By then's standards, Hakeem deserved MVP.

Better player.

Team more dependent upon him.

Better record.

Better team.