1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

Status
Not open for further replies.

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
Lol the man turned on his city, he said he'd miss his childs birth for a playoff game. And I know you don't want to talk about players quiting.

What Pippen did was worse in terms of basketball. I understand how unprofessional James was off of the court. But that doesn't make him any less of a player.

And LeBron never quit on the Cavs while he was under contract. He just faded away in that Celtics series when things got tough.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
I love both of those players but it's hard to put either ahead of LeBron James. James is a better defensive player, passer, and about as good of a scorer overall as those two.
And I'd still put them over him. lebron is hype and nothing else. Oh and showboating and hot dogging.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
What Pippen did was worse in terms of basketball. I understand how unprofessional James was off of the court. But that doesn't make him any less of a player.

And LeBron never quit on the Cavs while he was under contract. He just faded away in that Celtics series when things got tough.
That's quitting under contract.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
Can you tell that to ESPN, please?

Just because you don't feel that way, doesn't make anyone else wrong if they do.

That's where the problem comes in. People can't have their opinion without being attacked for not going with popular opinion or regurgitating what ESPN says.

ESPN says whatever they want to say. That has shit-all to do with me.

I respect people's opinions if they respect mine.
 

DCguy

Active member
Joined:
Dec 2, 2010
Posts:
1,791
Liked Posts:
262
Location:
Washington, DC
No one never said LeBron wasn't a good player, simply said that he is not worth all that hype he gets. This guy was built up when he was in the 11th grade to come in to the league and take it by storm. Every time he has a good statistical game, ESPN starts comparing it to all time greats like Jordan, Baylor, Russell, Magic, etc. Why? Why can't we just wait and let his body of work do the talking, like they did with Michael. The guy is supremely athletic. But I think some people confuse that with automatically making you supremely talented, which isn't always the case.I think that's happen with LeBron

Now I know me and people I talk to personally, never was big on LeBron from Day one and that had nothing to do with "The Decision". We didn't like the forcefeeding and we weren't in awe with his same half tomahawk dunk they showed in every highlight of him. Can the guy play? Heck yea, never questioned that. But why he gets all the credit when Cleveland wins, but in the playoffs it was all of the sudden Mo Williams' fault. How come he was deemed a closer after the Bulls series, but he let two trash talkers in Jason Terry and DeShawn Stevenson dog him throughout the Finals to the point that some teammates of his thought that they took him out his game.

Byron Russell talked a lot of trash to Michael and when they met in the Finals, he got him. Why couldn't LeBron do that, the best player on the planet should easily get the best of Terry. We have anointed this guy too quickly. That's why every year after his team gets put out, the blame game starts. At least in 07 he went down just bricking, this year he just played hot potato with the ball.
 
Last edited:

clonetrooper264

Retired Bandwagon Mod
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Apr 11, 2009
Posts:
23,620
Liked Posts:
7,414
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  2. Golden State Warriors
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Guys like Iverson and McGrady weren't one dimensional players. They weren't the defenders that Pippen was but they were far far shabby either.

How soon we forget...
I don't think they were. However, in McGrady's case he just never really played defense. He did early on in Toronto, but once he got paid and went to the Magic, it was all scoring and nothing else from him. That doesn't make him any less of a player imo, but that kind of mentality puts him below Pippen for me.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
No one never said LeBron wasn't a good player, simply said that he is not worth all that hype he gets. This guy was built up when he was in the 11th grade to come in to the league and take it by storm. Every time he has a good statistical game, ESPN starts comparing it to all time greats like Jordan, Baylor, Russell, Magic, etc. Why? Why can't we just wait and let his body of work do the talking, like they did with Michael. The guy is supremely athletic. But I think some people confuse that with automatically making you supremely talented, which isn't always the case.I think that's happen with LeBron

Now I know me and people I talk to personally, never was big on LeBron from Day one and that had nothing to do with "The Decision". We didn't like the forcefeeding and we weren't in awe with his same half tomahawk dunk they showed in every highlight of him. Can the guy play? Heck yea, never questioned that. But why he gets all the credit when Cleveland wins, but in the playoffs it was all of the sudden Mo Williams' fault. How come he was deemed a closer after the Bulls series, but he let two trash talkers in Jason Terry and DeShawn Stevenson dog him throughout the Finals to the point that some teammates of his thought that they took him out his game.

Byron Russell talked a lot of trash to Michael and when they met in the Finals, he got him. Why couldn't LeBron do that, the best player on the planet should easily get the best of Terry. We have anointed this guy too quickly. That's why every year after his team gets put out, the blame game starts. At least on 07 he went down just bricking, this year he just played hot potato with the ball.
Oh my GOD! You just said EVERYTHING I have ever thought about lebron. I wasn't buying the hype when he first came in.

Anyone that knows me, knows this to be true. The decision had no bearings on my feelings on him.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
He went into panic mode and played a lot less assertive than he should have. Quitting isn't the right word in my book.
Passive? He didn't even want the ball!

He hid by the 3-point line the rest of the series and ran off the court when it was over. Then he called himself a winner because he didn't shake hands afterwords.

He quit on his team, period.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
And I'd still put them over him. lebron is hype and nothing else. Oh and showboating and hot dogging.

That's really going off of expectations though. It's unfair to say that because of the expectations LeBron had, that means he's not as good as a guy like A.I. or T-Mac because they were never expected to be the
next big thing."

It's okay to believe A.I. and T-Mac were better players, but that isn't a good way to make the evaluation.

I've seen A.I. showboat plenty himself, too.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
Passive? He didn't even want the ball!

He hid by the 3-point line the rest of the series and ran off the court when it was over. Then he called himself a winner because he didn't shake hands afterwords.

He quit on his team, period.

That's who he is. And it's a fair knock on him as a player. But, to me, that's not quitting. That's the reason he went to play with Wade and Bosh.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
That's really going off of expectations though. It's unfair to say that because of the expectations LeBron had, that means he's not as good as a guy like A.I. or T-Mac because they were never expected to be the
next big thing."

It's okay to believe A.I. and T-Mac were better players, but that isn't a good way to make the evaluation.

I've seen A.I. showboat plenty himself, too.
You may be right. But when you come in with THAT much hype, falling short of it year after year has to impact your evaluation of a player sooner or later.

Imagine if Jordan came in with as much hype as lebron (remember Jordan had a Gold medal and an NCAA title before he even came into the league), if he didn't win, and soon people would rake him over the coals. Hell, they already were after his 6th season.

They were saying a Scoring Champ couldn't lead a team to a title.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
That's who he is. And it's a fair knock on him as a player. But, to me, that's not quitting. That's the reason he went to play with Wade and Bosh.

You're being an apologist man.

He quit on his team man. He was aggressive and then he stopped playing, that's the definition of quitting.

He went to play with Wade and Bosh because he wanted to take the easy route to the title. He just thought teams would lay down to the three all stars and when it didn't happen, he quit again.

He's no winner and is totally unworthy of the hype he gets. When the season does start, it'll be all about who's going to stop Miami, when the question should be, who's going knock Miami out THIS year?
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
You may be right. But when you come in with THAT much hype, falling short of it year after year has to impact your evaluation of a player sooner or later.

Imagine if Jordan came in with as much hype as lebron (remember Jordan had a Gold medal and an NCAA title before he even came into the league), if he didn't win, and soon people would rake him over the coals. Hell, they already were after his 6th season.

They were saying a Scoring Champ couldn't lead a team to a title.

We, as fans, don't need to hang on the expectations of the media though. We can make our own judgements and knock LeBron based on those.

Jordan was the greatest player ever in my book. When I knock Pippen, a lot of that is because of my feelings and observations about Jordan.

LeBron was simply wanted to be the next Jordan by the media and wasn't. He's a lot more like the better defensive/worse shooting version of Oscar.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

?‍♂️?
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Jun 15, 2010
Posts:
46,406
Liked Posts:
35,584
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Nebraska Cornhuskers
  2. Villanova Wildcats
The list of players better than James is quite a bit smaller than the list of players better than Pippen.

And if all Lebron does is dunk...somebody wasn't watching when Lebron was whupping the Bulls asses. Oh, speaking of just dunks...how did that Shaq fella work out with all of those dunks???
According to the stats I posted, Lebron is a better rebounder, passer, and shooter.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 16, 2010
Posts:
9,505
Liked Posts:
1,733
You're being an apologist man.

He quit on his team man. He was aggressive and then he stopped playing, that's the definition of quitting.

He went to play with Wade and Bosh because he wanted to take the easy route to the title. He just thought teams would lay down to the three all stars and when it didn't happen, he quit again.

He's no winner and is totally unworthy of the hype he gets. When the season does start, it'll be all about who's going to stop Miami, when the question should be, who's going knock Miami out THIS year?

I personally like it this way. The more expectations the media puts on Miami to do well, the more pressure they will have to win.

The entire TNT Inside crew all picked Miami to lose to Chicago and a lot of people thought Boston would beat them.

Then, they were expected to walk all over Dallas and LeBron faded away again. Wade tried to lead the team but Dallas was too deep.

You may be right that LeBron should have demanded the ball. He "quit" being as involved and aggressive as he should. But it doesn't even compare to not going in a game when your coach tells you to.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
We, as fans, don't need to hang on the expectations of the media though. We can make our own judgments and knock LeBron based on those.
It's hard to ignore Kevin Harlan jizzing his pants over lebron's routine dunks. It's hard to ignore ESPN's constant forcing of him down our throats. I judge him on what he has done on the court and to me all he has done is put up empty stats, because if he's going to judged next to Jordan and Magic and other greats, then him not winning rings will take him out of that conversation. He's not the best in my book.

Jordan was the greatest player ever in my book. When I knock Pippen, a lot of that is because of my feelings and observations about Jordan.
Well, I judge them as individuals. My opinion of both of them is equally high. I don't knock Pippen because of Jordan, and I don't knock Jordan to hype Pippen.

LeBron was simply wanted to be the next Jordan by the media and wasn't. He's a lot more like the better defensive/worse shooting version of Oscar.
Or the actual version of himself.
 

Glide2keva

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Jun 28, 2010
Posts:
3,689
Liked Posts:
754
I personally like it this way. The more expectations the media puts on Miami to do well, the more pressure they will have to win.

The entire TNT Inside crew all picked Miami to lose to Chicago and a lot of people thought Boston would beat them.

Then, they were expected to walk all over Dallas and LeBron faded away again. Wade tried to lead the team but Dallas was too deep.

You may be right that LeBron should have demanded the ball. He "quit" being as involved and aggressive as he should. But it doesn't even compare to not going in a game when your coach tells you to.
I was at that game you were referring to. Pippen wanted to take the last shot and was mad that he was going to be used as a decoy.

I was working right behind the rim Kukoc made the shot on and in some highlights, you can see me.

Pippen felt disrespected and unappreciated when the play wasn't drawn up for him. It was an honest emotion. It made him better as a player. I don't think he makes that dunk on Ewing later in the series if that play doesn't go down the way it did. He had to earn his respect back and it lit a fire under him and he played with fire and passion after that.
 

CODE_BLUE56

Ded
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '20
Joined:
Apr 18, 2010
Posts:
19,725
Liked Posts:
4,699
Location:
Texas
He's just flat out better on defense. Aside from the chase down block, lebron has nothing else.
Pippen's D is better i agree..but lets not act like lebron is a slouch..he shut down rose in the ECF

lebron's scoring is the result of him having the ball and calling the shots, which usually go to him. I've seen Pippen make some crazy passes. So court vision, I don't know.
Lebron is basically a point forward...his IQ and passing ability are the best i've ever seen for an SF...scottie isnt a slouch in that deparmtnet but Lebron is better


Like I said, more physically gifted, not more talented
Lebron is 6'8 270 pounds can pass like a PG,shoots pretty well,can drive to the basket with either hand,can run with unbelievable speed and agility,finishes with power to the basket(reminds me alot of wilkins and kemp),plays great defense(good shot blocker and ball stealer)...again pippen is not a slouch...but lebron was the best player in high school and could make an NBA roster as a sophomore in HS..THATS talent

His MVP's were pretty much handed to him. ESPN hyped him both of those seasons and never included anyone else in the discussions. They pretty much crowned him from the start of the season, both times.

:rolleyes: because he had two fantastic seasons and led the cavs to 60 win seasons(i think him playing with Coach K really helped him take his game to an even higher level)...who else would you give the MVP too?



You're entitled. (See how I didn't call you an idiot?)
that isnt a shot at me calling people idiots because usually i dont:shifty: anyway i agree to disagree

The Finals is where it counts the most.
True..but you still have to look at how the player performed overall in the playoffs and in his career...i dont like calling a player great because they have a lot of championships resulting from being on a powerhouse team..there's more than that(although i do agree pippen's finals performances are better than lebron's right now...i think lebron will have a couple of titles before its all said and done tho...difference between lebron and pippen is lebron is 26..and pippen is retired)

If you don't perform there, your rankings fall in my book.
mine too..but probably not as much as yours...you're entitled to your opinion


That's why Kobe isn't really high on my list. Because despite his 5 rings, he has not one definable moment in the Finals. None, and neither does lebron
Kobe has played as well as anyone in his 7 finals appearances...as much as i hate him and thinks he's a bit overrated.....he's been clutch and a leader in the finals...who cares about one defining moment?...seriously....kobe has been great in the finals....your other statements i can somewhat understand but this is a little ridiculous...
btw you know what makes a really great player...a guy that shoots 0-10 in the first half..comes back in the 2nd...keeps shooting and wills his team to win..thats what kobe and dirk and many others do/have done..i am still waiting for lebron to come out his shell and really compete like that

But they are both better than lebron. They've both led teams to titles while lebron is 0-2
disagree...lebron is the best player on the planet...one crappy finals doesnt change everything(he barely missed a beat sharing the ball with wade and bosh and he decimated the bulls in the ECF)

I'm sorry but no one has to make up anything when all you have to do is watch the "best player on the planet" stink up the gym on the games' biggest stage, for its' grandest prize.
he's still the best...he just has some issues with finals....its really perplexing..but he still is the best imo..look at the whole body of work

lebron doesn't do much for me. He's all hype and no substance.
he does get alot of attention by the media and other but he's a damn good player...he isnt jordan but he's the best the NBA has right now
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top