2015-16 NBA Around the League Thread

[czman]

Excuse me, 90's homerism. To say GS would get destroyed is hysterical.

Depends on the rules. If the games is called like it was in the 90s GS would get smashed. What makes GS so good is they waltz down the lane with no fear of getting planted. I don't think for one second that Curry would be even close to as an effective player as he is now ~20 years ago.

If you play by today's rules it is hard to guess at what would happen. We never those Bulls players play under these rules so it is hard to say how effective they would be; especially defensively. Under modern rules GS might have the advantage, but I would not get against MJ when he was at his peak.

 

[knoxville7]

Two way player means player in totality. That means that you would rather have one guy on the team than the other. There is no way I don't ship butler in a trade for Harden or Thompson. The paperwork would be submitted before the other GM could get the sentence out.

no thanks on harden...

[video=youtube;KMKavKEKX2Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMKavKEKX2Q[/video]

embarrassing shit right there

 

[czman]

Harden is a below average defensive player. I don't care. I would take him over Butler and stick him on the lesser of the SG/SF. It is much harder to find guys who can score in the final 5 minutes of games against good teams than it is to find wing defenders.

 

[Enasic]

Depends on the rules. If the games is called like it was in the 90s GS would get smashed. What makes GS so good is they waltz down the lane with no fear of getting planted. I don't think for one second that Curry would be even close to as an effective player as he is now ~20 years ago.

If you play by today's rules it is hard to guess at what would happen. We never those Bulls players play under these rules so it is hard to say how effective they would be; especially defensively. Under modern rules GS might have the advantage, but I would not get against MJ when he was at his peak.

I still don't buy GS getting smashed regardless of the rules. Remember in Cleveland when LeBron pushed Curry to the floor? What did Curry do? Run right back and hit a 3 that he got off in about half a second. The guy might be small and look like a choir boy, but he's not soft. GS would cause a number of problems to that Bulls team. It would be a competitive series no matter which rules you played by. GS is a cohesive, well oiled machine, assembled with extremely skilled and intelligent players who also play great defense and aren't afraid of contact.

 

[czman]

I still don't buy GS getting smashed regardless of the rules. Remember in Cleveland when LeBron pushed Curry to the floor? What did Curry do? Run right back and hit a 3 that he got off in about half a second. The guy might be small and look like a choir boy, but he's not soft. GS would cause a number of problems to that Bulls team. It would be a competitive series no matter which rules you played by. GS is a cohesive, well oiled machine, assembled with extremely skilled and intelligent players who also play great defense and aren't afraid of contact.

That is anecdotal. The reality is that there is 1, count them 1, player under 6'4 that was the best player on a championship team before the rule changes. Going through an entire season and then the playoffs with those rules would make him much less effective. Basketball now has not resemblance to the basketball in the 90s. The grating, pushing, banging, hard fouls, no defensive 3 second calls.

The NBA is not like baseball where you can compare guys from different eras somewhat easily. The game has changed more in the last 15 years than any other major sport.

I wonder how well you really remember 80/90 basketball.

 

[knoxville7]

Harden is a below average defensive player. I don't care. I would take him over Butler and stick him on the lesser of the SG/SF. It is much harder to find guys who can score in the final 5 minutes of games against good teams than it is to find wing defenders.

no, harden is one of the WORST defenders in the league....far worse than just below average. and you saying you don't care only goes to show that unless a player scores 25+ a game in your eyes he isn't as good. id rather have a guy who gets the team more points than he gives up....but then again I like to win :shrug:

 

[Enasic]

That is anecdotal. The reality is that there is 1, count them 1, player under 6'4 that was the best player on a championship team before the rule changes. Going through an entire season and then the playoffs with those rules would make him much less effective. Basketball now has not resemblance to the basketball in the 90s. The grating, pushing, banging, hard fouls, no defensive 3 second calls.

The NBA is not like baseball where you can compare guys from different eras somewhat easily. The game has changed more in the last 15 years than any other major sport.

I wonder how well you really remember 80/90 basketball.

80s ball? Not so much. 90s ball? Very much.

There was never a player under 6'4 who led their team to a championship? Isiah Thomas? Sure, he had Dumars (also shorter) Lambier, and a talented team, but I think the main difference now is, in regards to this GS team and this hypothetical scenario, there's never been a player like Steph Curry. It would be like in the 90s saying "There's never been a SG that was the best player on a championship team." Then Michael Jordan came around. The game has changed, but this GS team is something else. In the end though, we're talking about a hypothetical situation that nobody can give you an answer to and will never be able to play out. So we're all at a disadvantage even trying to discuss it.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Harden is a below average defensive player. I don't care. I would take him over Butler and stick him on the lesser of the SG/SF. It is much harder to find guys who can score in the final 5 minutes of games against good teams than it is to find wing defenders.

Meh. Harden's playoffs success is very similar to Butler's. In fact, it feels like Harden regresses in the biggest playoff moments. In any case, I don't find this hypothetical silliness to be worth any more of anyone's time so I'm done.

 

[czman]

80s ball? Not so much. 90s ball? Very much.

There was never a player under 6'4 who led their team to a championship? Isiah Thomas? Sure, he had Dumars (also shorter) Lambier, and a talented team, but I think the main difference now is, in regards to this GS team and this hypothetical scenario, there's never been a player like Steph Curry. It would be like in the 90s saying "There's never been a SG that was the best player on a championship team." Then Michael Jordan came around. The game has changed, but this GS team is something else. In the end though, we're talking about a hypothetical situation that nobody can give you an answer to and will never be able to play out. So we're all at a disadvantage even trying to discuss it.

I said 1 player, Thomas is it. I also disagree that there has never been a player like Curry. I suspect that Curry would be like John Stockton in his prime. Players now go in the lane without fear. Players back in the day did not. You watch old games an PGs kept their feet on the floor a lot more. They did not elevate to pass nearly as much. When you are worried about getting hit you keep your feet on the floor.

The NBA is completely different. There is no way Green/Barnes/Iggy play the 4 ~20 years ago either.

Here is what kills me about this. Don Nelson tried small ball and it failed. We have teams that tried to play like the Warriors over the years and it didn't work till the rules and refs changed the game. What works now failed to be successful years ago. Curry is only what he is because the NBA allows him to be it. You allow players to grab, hand check, and foul him hard (I don't mean close line) he is not the same player.

 

[knoxville7]

I said 1 player, Thomas is it. I also disagree that there has never been a player like Curry. I suspect that Curry would be like John Stockton in his prime. Players now go in the lane without fear. Players back in the day did not. You watch old games an PGs kept their feet on the floor a lot more. They did not elevate to pass nearly as much. When you are worried about getting hit you keep your feet on the floor.

The NBA is completely different. There is no way Green/Barnes/Iggy play the 4 ~20 years ago either.

Here is what kills me about this. Don Nelson tried small ball and it failed. We have teams that tried to play like the Warriors over the years and it didn't work till the rules and refs changed the game. What works now failed to be successful years ago. Curry is only what he is because the NBA allows him to be it. You allow players to grab, hand check, and foul him hard (I don't mean close line) he is not the same player.

the reason small ball failed under nelson is he didn't have the shooters GS has. your Stockton to curry comparison is absolutely laughable. you are correct about the game has changed though ill give you that

 

[czman]

the reason small ball failed under nelson is he didn't have the shooters GS has. your Stockton to curry comparison is absolutely laughable. you are correct about the game has changed though ill give you that

You do realize that the increased % of 3 being taken and made has gone up since they put in the rule that you could not uncut shooters. It is much easier to shot when you are not worried about landing on someones feet. Watch old games and see how many times guys shoot with their legs moving away from their center.

The game is so incredibly different now. I don't think you really understand just how different it is.

 

[knoxville7]

You do realize that the increased % of 3 being taken and made has gone up since they put in the rule that you could not uncut shooters. It is much easier to shot when you are not worried about landing on someones feet. Watch old games and see how many times guys shoot with their legs moving away from their center.

The game is so incredibly different now. I don't think you really understand just how different it is.

lol dude I agreed with you that the game is a lot different today. not sure why you feel the need to argue. now I did LOL @ your curry/Stockton comparison, but that has nothing to do with whether the game has changed or not. that's just simply a terrible comparison because their games are not alike

 

[Enasic]

the reason small ball failed under nelson is he didn't have the shooters GS has. your Stockton to curry comparison is absolutely laughable. you are correct about the game has changed though ill give you that

Pretty much this. I don't care the era or the rules GS is legit and would fare just fine in the 80s and 90s. If Barkley could play the four over 20 years ago I don't see why Draymond couldn't. Same thing with rodman.

 

[czman]

lol dude I agreed with you that the game is a lot different today. not sure why you feel the need to argue. now I did LOL @ your curry/Stockton comparison, but that has nothing to do with whether the game has changed or not. that's just simply a terrible comparison because their games are not alike

You do realize if the game changes players do different things. Most of the "fancy" dribbling and moves now would be violations and TOs 20 years ago. If you teleport Curry back 20 years he is not the same player. If you teleport Stockton froward he is a much better player now. You let Stockton come down the lane unmolested and disregard all traveling and carrying violations he would be stupid effective.

You want to disagree that is fine. I honestly don't think you are remember the era very well, if at all.

 

[Enasic]

Curry's dribbling is about as texbook as it gets. If Jordan got away with palming the ball I think Curry would be allowed to cross people over. You're really reaching now.

 

[czman]

Pretty much this. I don't care the era or the rules GS is legit and would fare just fine in the 80s and 90s. If Barkley could play the four over 20 years ago I don't see why Draymond couldn't. Same thing with rodman.

I don't for second think Green is anything like Barkley. If you do, I have to question if you remember the era at all. That is straight ridiculous. I guess if Mirotic can be Dirk anything can be true on this site.

 

[knoxville7]

You do realize if the game changes players do different things. Most of the "fancy" dribbling and moves now would be violations and TOs 20 years ago. If you teleport Curry back 20 years he is not the same player. If you teleport Stockton froward he is a much better player now. You let Stockton come down the lane unmolested and disregard all traveling and carrying violations he would be stupid effective.

You want to disagree that is fine. I honestly don't think you are remember the era very well, if at all.

LOL again @ you. whenever someone points out something wrong with your argument, they "clearly have never watched basketball before or don't remember that era." yet, I spend time getting on basketball and specifically bulls basketball message forums? doesn't seem to add up but whatever. I lived and breathed 90's basketball, basketball during that time in my life was my life. you come off as someone though who stopped watching basketball at the end of the 90's and someone who just automatically thinks everyone from that era is better than todays era. get off my grass!!! curry is a better overall player in either era than Stockton. that's not a knock on Stockton, who is one of the greats as well, its more a statement of how good curry is

and the whole curry/Stockton thing was brought up by you saying that they play a similar game and that's just not true. if you want to say Stockton would dominate today that's fine, but he wouldn't do it the same way curry does it

 

[czman]

Curry's dribbling is about as texbook as it gets. If Jordan got away with palming the ball I think Curry would be allowed to cross people over. You're really reaching now.

???????

Now I know you are delusional. Watch his behind teh back moves. He throws the ball 5-10 feet in front of him.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Literally every NBA player travels/palms/carries...what the heck is this argument?

 

[Enasic]

???????

Now I know you are delusional. Watch his behind teh back moves. He throws the ball 5-10 feet in front of him.

Hey man, if you think Curry wouldn't be effective because he wouldn't be able to handle it the way he does now or adjust, that's fine with me. Jordan got away with plenty of palming in his day but you can ignore that if you want to. Curry is way too skilled to be downplayed in any era.

I don't for second think Green is anything like Barkley. If you do, I have to question if you remember the era at all. That is straight ridiculous. I guess if Mirotic can be Dirk anything can be true on this site.

They're both undersized for the 4 but are both strong, gritty, and athletic enough to play there. Barkley was the better rebounder and scorer. Draymond is the better ball handler and passer but is still a good rebounder and offensive player in his own right. So yes, they're similar in being effective and undersized for the position. Of course Barkley was the better player. As far as your last comment, I'm not high on Niko whatsoever so I'm not sure that's even relevant.