2015 cubs in season trades

[beckdawg]

The internet. I hear scouts talk about this all the time. The internet exploded then prospects like Trout and Harper shows up and now people are so ridiculous about them. The average rookie is still 24 or 25 but to the internet if they are past 22 they are a bust. Look at the cards, how many have become something around 24 because of development? These are kids. Let them grow and learn.

I don't think it's just the internet. I'd argue 24 hour sports pushed it into the mainstream. I mean there's only so much you can talk about. Granted ESPN was around in the 80's and it wasn't popular to talk about prospects then but as they started to refine the channel and others like it I think you started to see more hype on prospects. No doubt the internet helped but I think they followed suit. ESPN eventually had to have a prospect guy(Klaw) to talk about some new guy that had come up to the majors and was lighting it up and it grew from there. Similarly, when big trades happened in the past you would have no idea what your team was getting if it was prospects. Reporting added to it.

I think the 24 hour sports cycle got it to the mainstream but I do agree the internet took it over the top as the internet gave you message boards and what not for fans to salivate over said prospects. I just don't think anyone would care if the media hadn't made them aware they were important in the first place. In large part I think sabermetrics are sort of in that infancy stage where the media is starting to use them more commonly but by in large most casual fans couldn't care less. Maybe it's a bit farther along than I'm saying but Bill James was writing about this stuff in 1977 to some degree and even MLB teams couldn't give a flying **** until the A's proved it worked in 2003. That produced the book moneyball and later the movie and that moved it some what into the public consciousness. Even then, a year or so ago you had people at major media places like espn talking about OPS as though it were the height of the stats revolution when there were things like wRC+ that are arguably better measures. If you were ask a casual fan about wRC+ or UZR most would have no fucking clue what you're talking about but I think in the next 2-3 years that will change because again the media has started pushing it.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Cubs playing it safe with Edwards caused his ranking to nose dive.

No question and I don't think they give a damn. He's likely to be an important pitcher for them, one way or another, and they are going to maximize his value to themselves. Of course a savvy GM might be able to nab him in a trade but I think that gets less likely all the time.

 

[beckdawg]

No question and I don't think they give a damn. He's likely to be an important pitcher for them, one way or another, and they are going to maximize his value to themselves. Of course a savvy GM might be able to nab him in a trade but I think that gets less likely all the time.

I wouldn't say it was playing it safe that cost him ranking. I'd say it's the belief he might not be a starter. He hasn't been starting with the cubs this year. That affirms popular belief. Whether it's safety or not, until he proves sturdy enough to be a starter he probably shouldn't have been ranked as high as he was. He clearly has great stuff but durability will continue to haunt him until he shows it's not an issue.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I wouldn't say it was playing it safe that cost him ranking. I'd say it's the belief he might not be a starter. He hasn't been starting with the cubs this year. That affirms popular belief. Whether it's safety or not, until he proves sturdy enough to be a starter he probably shouldn't have been ranked as high as he was. He clearly has great stuff but durability will continue to haunt him until he shows it's not an issue.

I get that, but that's what I meant when they said that they didn't give a damn. To the Cubs he is still a starter and the move to the bullpen was to allow him continue to pitch while his body develops. Of course there are durability concerns but he has a enough raw talent that if easing him along is the way to go they're going to do that rankings be damned. Jason McLeod has confirmed this approach in many interviews.

 

[SilenceS]

I think they will bring him up for the bullpen for the stretch run. Teams seem to be doing this more and more. Putting kids into the bullpen for the stretch run and playoff run then going back to starting them a year or two later. It shows them what it takes to be a MLB pitcher.

 

[SilenceS]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 18h18 hours ago
There's a much better chance Javier Baez plays a role with the Cubs down stretch than be traded. He's closing in on rehab assignment.

 

[beckdawg]

I get that, but that's what I meant when they said that they didn't give a damn. To the Cubs he is still a starter and the move to the bullpen was to allow him continue to pitch while his body develops. Of course there are durability concerns but he has a enough raw talent that if easing him along is the way to go they're going to do that rankings be damned. Jason McLeod has confirmed this approach in many interviews.

Oh I'm sure they don't care like you said. Overall, I think rankings can be largely irrelevant to the teams unless they plan on dealing a guy and given Edwards is one of the few high level pitching prospects he's not really your first choice to trade.

 

[beckdawg]

Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 18h18 hours ago
There's a much better chance Javier Baez plays a role with the Cubs down stretch than be traded. He's closing in on rehab assignment.

I'm curious is the reasoning behind this is long term plan or just lack of availability of people. It's sounding like almost no one thinks they are out of it and people don't plan to put good players out. I know Kazmir is hurt but to throw out an example, the cubs would be stupid to trade Baez for someone of Kazmir's value IMO. And even if someone like Hamels is better and available they are going to cost a metric fuckton because so few other options remain. If that's the case they would likely be better served waiting until the offseason for any kind of consideration because then you're not only not paying deadline prices but you also have a bunch of high quality starters likely to be FA's such as Price.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I'm really fine if they stand pat or just pick up a depth starter to shore up that 5th spot and try to utilize guys like Baez and Schwarber for some pop. I don't think getting James Shields or Scott Kazmir or frankly even Cole Hamels makes this team a true World Series contender, at least not by the odds. Could it happen? Sure, but you've got to look at the cost of increasing your chances and the fact remains this team starts 3 rookies. The 2015 goal should be to get as far as they can with a stretch goal of winning a WS. The cost is likely too high to make winning it all this year the main goal.

 

[chibears55]

@Buster_ESPN: A rival evaluator places odds of James Shields being dealt before July 31 at 75 to 90 pct.,and thinks SD will move Craig Kimbrel, as well.

Wonder what it would cost to get shields kimbrel and venable
from padres...

 

[beckdawg]

@Buster_ESPN: A rival evaluator places odds of James Shields being dealt before July 31 at 75 to 90 pct.,and thinks SD will move Craig Kimbrel, as well.

Wonder what it would cost to get shields kimbrel and venable
from padres...

Not sure what it would cost but I'd be pretty surprised if they trade for a reliever at this point. They already have a crowd in the bullpen and they haven't added Edwards and Soriano who are coming. Also, Kimbrel hasn't been what he was in the past this year. Don't get me wrong, he's been good but not quite as dominant and you have to believe they would want prices as though he were that dominant player.

 

[Diehardfan]

I'm really fine if they stand pat or just pick up a depth starter to shore up that 5th spot and try to utilize guys like Baez and Schwarber for some pop. I don't think getting James Shields or Scott Kazmir or frankly even Cole Hamels makes this team a true World Series contender, at least not by the odds. Could it happen? Sure, but you've got to look at the cost of increasing your chances and the fact remains this team starts 3 rookies. The 2015 goal should be to get as far as they can with a stretch goal of winning a WS. The cost is likely too high to make winning it all this year the main goal.

They're scoring 2 damn runs a game. Other than the rawest rookie they have...no one's hitting. They better not even think about bringing in a rental unless it's Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

 

[CSF77]

rumor has the Cubs Dodgers etc looking at Cole. Cubs have the trade goods to pull it off.

I could see them selling Torres as a 2B. They already have JP around the same level.

Add Vogelbach to replace Howard.

Add Almora or one of the 3 LH OF in AA. let the Phills make that choice.

4 would be a pitcher. I would leave that as 1 any choice. Bet they would go after Johnson. He seems a year out. Edwards holds risk. Rest are pretty far out. Phills might take one of the arms from the 2014 draft. They are open to trade now and there was some talent to chose from.

 

[CSF77]

They're scoring 2 damn runs a game. Other than the rawest rookie they have...no one's hitting. They better not even think about bringing in a rental unless it's Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson.

I think it will improve with Schwarber. I still think they need to bat Rizzo 2 and Schwarber 4. Rizzo takes too many walks and plunks to be a stable form of RBI's. Schwarber is more the hitter

 

[Zvbxrpl]

rumor has the Cubs Dodgers etc looking at Cole. Cubs have the trade goods to pull it off.

I could see them selling Torres as a 2B. They already have JP around the same level.

Add Vogelbach to replace Howard.

Add Almora or one of the 3 LH OF in AA. let the Phills make that choice.

4 would be a pitcher. I would leave that as 1 any choice. Bet they would go after Johnson. He seems a year out. Edwards holds risk. Rest are pretty far out. Phills might take one of the arms from the 2014 draft. They are open to trade now and there was some talent to chose from.

If Edwards, Almora, Torres, and Chunk was what it takes to get Cole Hamels, you pull the god damn trigger. That's highway robbery.

Way too unlikely. I imagine the Phils flat out demanding one or more of the big 3 and being stubborn enough to hold onto Hamels until its too late because Ruben Amaro Jr. is a joke.

I imagine McPhail deals him this offseason after Amaro Jr. has gotten the boot and he gets his guy in. McPhail was just hired to replace some long tenured guy there as prez of ops.

 

[TL1961]

The Phils are puzzling, to say the very least.

They are clearly replacing the brass, and will replace Amaro. Yet they say he is still in charge now. So you allow a guy who is net getting the job done, to make decisions over the next few months that will shape the team's future? Makes no sense.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

The Phils are puzzling, to say the very least.

They are clearly replacing the brass, and will replace Amaro. Yet they say he is still in charge now. So you allow a guy who is net getting the job done, to make decisions over the next few months that will shape the team's future? Makes no sense.

Technically, Gillick and Amaro are both still in charge. Gillick is retiring at the end of the year and McPhail is taking over then, so it seems to be unlike Hendry back in 2011 where they flat out neutered him to just a name and title for a month or so before he stepped down or was let go.

Definitely agree with what you're saying. Start the tank now. No point in holding out.

But its Ruben Amaro jr. Not exactly the brightest. Dont care much for deadspin, but this kind of narrows it down:

http://deadspin.com/ruben-amaro-jr-how-bad-a-gm-do-you-think-i-am-1710719217

 

[TL1961]

I like that Phillies fans call him Ruining Tomorrow.

 

[CSF77]

If Edwards, Almora, Torres, and Chunk was what it takes to get Cole Hamels, you pull the god damn trigger. That's highway robbery.

Way too unlikely. I imagine the Phils flat out demanding one or more of the big 3 and being stubborn enough to hold onto Hamels until its too late because Ruben Amaro Jr. is a joke.

I imagine McPhail deals him this offseason after Amaro Jr. has gotten the boot and he gets his guy in. McPhail was just hired to replace some long tenured guy there as prez of ops.

Torres is in the top 100 now. They have Crawford who is more of a natural SS. Torres would move to 2B.

They will be getting rid of Howard. Vogelbach would have a role there

I would think they would want McKenney to be honest. Almora has fallen in value.

I doubt they would want Edwards. He is a questionable starter. I would nab One of the top arms they drafted in 2014. That group had better talent. We just know about the common suspects due to the time invested in development.

It is not a bad offer at all.

 

[CSF77]

Technically, Gillick and Amaro are both still in charge. Gillick is retiring at the end of the year and McPhail is taking over then, so it seems to be unlike Hendry back in 2011 where they flat out neutered him to just a name and title for a month or so before he stepped down or was let go.

Definitely agree with what you're saying. Start the tank now. No point in holding out.

But its Ruben Amaro jr. Not exactly the brightest. Dont care much for deadspin, but this kind of narrows it down:

http://deadspin.com/ruben-amaro-jr-how-bad-a-gm-do-you-think-i-am-1710719217

Article in trade rumors on Sandberg and Bowa and speculation on why Sandberg quit. Players were jack offs on that team. Didn't work hard to be good and most showed little respect. Vets felt entitled even though the team sucked.

Team is a cluster ****