2016 Cubs could be one of MLB's best ever teams

[cubsmann]

I would really say they caught up. The Cubs are still 7 games over .500 over the next best teams. This team has a long way to go in the season, but they do have the chance to play .700 ball and that will put them up there with some of the best teams ever. No guarantee and probably unlikely, but they have the shot.

This was my point in starting this thread. I knew people would cry about the 27 Yankees and so forth. But this team is the best I have ever seen and I have been watching baseball for over 30 years. Their pitching has been dominant their hitting has been great and their fielding is the only place they really haven't shined. I am just excited that we are even having this discussion about a CUBS TEAM. Don't you guys realize how bad they have been for most of all of our lifetimes? But their run differential has been what I was looking at. They are at +159 and they're about to win by 6 today so make that +165 after 66 games. They are on pace to surpass the run differential of probably not the 39 Yankees who were at +422 but they have a shot at it. This is a show of domination of their opponents. There are not even three other teams in MLB this season who have a total RD of +165.

This is of course a moot point if they don't win the World Series. Even if they don't add another arm their starting rotation for October will likely be Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, and Hammel. Each of these guys has an ERA under 2.50 and three of them are under 2.00 and we all know that starting pitching is all that matters in the postseason.

 

[beckdawg]

Fowler was a big reason why they started off hot. His cooling off has caused the O to studder more. Why I mentioned Heyward is because he is in a OBA spot also and he would help stabilize run production by heating up. No one expected Fowler to keep that pace but Heyward has to pick the slack.

Middle: Zo has been the man. He hits for contact and it has been plus and counters Rizzo and Bryant's strike out potential. After that has been in flux. Mix and match with Russell as the main stay. Not bad but this is where Maddon impacts the line up.

I don't think you're that far off in what you're saying but an average offense and the cubs pitching alone would be a 100 win team. I mean that's basically describing the 2015 cardinals. So, to say they aren't "dominant" when they are on pace for roughly 110 wins seems off to me. Best ever? Well I've already made my feelings on that known. Where they go from here largely depends on their hitting. I do however really think Almora's ball in play style fits well on this team. The cubs have 4 of the top 50 player sin OBP so chances are he's going to bat with someone on.

 

[Washington]

This is of course a moot point if they don't win the World Series.

Exactly - who cares what a team does during the season if they choke it away in the playoffs? GoldenState is in jeopardy of that right now and I hope it happens.

I think Theo is going to make a couple of moves to shore up the bullpen.

 

[CSF77]

I don't think you're that far off in what you're saying but an average offense and the cubs pitching alone would be a 100 win team. I mean that's basically describing the 2015 cardinals. So, to say they aren't "dominant" when they are on pace for roughly 110 wins seems off to me. Best ever? Well I've already made my feelings on that known. Where they go from here largely depends on their hitting. I do however really think Almora's ball in play style fits well on this team. The cubs have 4 of the top 50 player sin OBP so chances are he's going to bat with someone on.

Still you are talking regular season. That is fine if they win over 100 games. The problem is what the Cards went through last year. Best team didn't mean squat. Cubs were the better team in the match up due to the rotation. Mets won the next due to their rotation being 3 TOR types. Add to it they found their O at the right time. KC won the next round due to their team is built for their ball park. Gap hitters. Add to it their pen is shut down. It stabilized a avg staff

What this means is the best team going into a play offs just gives home field. That is it.

 

[CSF77]

Exactly - who cares what a team does during the season if they choke it away in the playoffs? GoldenState is in jeopardy of that right now and I hope it happens.

I think Theo is going to make a couple of moves to shore up the bullpen.

He was quoted saying he won't mortgage the future over it but I would expect a deal. I.e. Rental. He said that the market hasn't developed yet this year. So expect something of this nature in July.

 

[CSF77]

This was my point in starting this thread. I knew people would cry about the 27 Yankees and so forth. But this team is the best I have ever seen and I have been watching baseball for over 30 years. Their pitching has been dominant their hitting has been great and their fielding is the only place they really haven't shined. I am just excited that we are even having this discussion about a CUBS TEAM. Don't you guys realize how bad they have been for most of all of our lifetimes? But their run differential has been what I was looking at. They are at +159 and they're about to win by 6 today so make that +165 after 66 games. They are on pace to surpass the run differential of probably not the 39 Yankees who were at +422 but they have a shot at it. This is a show of domination of their opponents. There are not even three other teams in MLB this season who have a total RD of +165.

This is of course a moot point if they don't win the World Series. Even if they don't add another arm their starting rotation for October will likely be Arrieta, Lester, Lackey, and Hammel. Each of these guys has an ERA under 2.50 and three of them are under 2.00 and we all know that starting pitching is all that matters in the postseason.

Cubs were bad for years and you can blame a bunch of it on the Tribune. They were about low overhead and under staffing a farm system to turn a buck. For years they sat on Sammy to draw. They let Maddux go vs pay him. Drafts sucked after Green left. And so on. 1998 with Wood and the HR chase reenergized the team then 2003 pushed it up another notch. 2007 was a pending sale that made that short term success. It was to push up the price tag vs making a contender

This team is built right. It is good to be excited. But I would temper it down a notch until they take the prize. Or at least get into the final. Until then they are still pretenders

 

[beckdawg]

Still you are talking regular season. That is fine if they win over 100 games. The problem is what the Cards went through last year. Best team didn't mean squat. Cubs were the better team in the match up due to the rotation. Mets won the next due to their rotation being 3 TOR types. Add to it they found their O at the right time. KC won the next round due to their team is built for their ball park. Gap hitters. Add to it their pen is shut down. It stabilized a avg staff

What this means is the best team going into a play offs just gives home field. That is it.

I'd argue the mets won because Murphy became the greek god of hitting over night. They probably don't beat the dodgers had he not started raking. And honestly, I don't really think the playoffs are something you can dissect and say you've got the formula. It's pretty obvious that the best team doesn't always win the world series. So in that light of course I'm talking regular season because who knows what will happen in the playoffs. Keep in mind also that Russell missed the Mets series.

Regardless, at this point there's little you can do to make the team significantly better. The offense isn't where it should be but it's not because they lack the players. People just gotta hit. The rotation is by far the best in baseball. Bullpen is a bit iffy in spots. But if you're asking would I rather be the Mets or Dodgers of course not.

 

[chibears55]

1969 Cubs had 4 HOF players and choked away the pennant.

1987 Cubs had 3 HOFers and i believe spent every day in last place...?

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[CSF77]

I'd argue the mets won because Murphy became the greek god of hitting over night. They probably don't beat the dodgers had he not started raking. And honestly, I don't really think the playoffs are something you can dissect and say you've got the formula. It's pretty obvious that the best team doesn't always win the world series. So in that light of course I'm talking regular season because who knows what will happen in the playoffs. Keep in mind also that Russell missed the Mets series.

Regardless, at this point there's little you can do to make the team significantly better. The offense isn't where it should be but it's not because they lack the players. People just gotta hit. The rotation is by far the best in baseball. Bullpen is a bit iffy in spots. But if you're asking would I rather be the Mets or Dodgers of course not.

Can't undersell the staff. But yes he cooled off vs the Royals and the rest is history.

 

[beckdawg]

Can't undersell the staff. But yes he cooled off vs the Royals and the rest is history.

Not really trying to undersell them. I just honestly think the way the cubs lost and the fact that this fanbase has been trying to find the next ace for the team totally blew the series out of proportion. They lost 4-2 and 4-1 with their two TOR's on the mound. They lost 5-2 and 8-3 with Hendricks and Hammel on the mound. If you give up 21 runs in 4 games you're probably going to lose regardless of who you're facing pitching wise. More over, last year a lot of cubs didn't show up in the playoffs. Fowler and Schwarber carried the play in game. Schwarber was great most of the playoffs. Soler carried them vs the cards. Pretty much most of the team played bad vs the mets. We can rationalize it however but my take on it is the sweep had more to do with a young team not showing up than it did with the Mets flat out beating them. When the lights weren't so bright they beat deGrom, Harvey, Syndergaard and Niese 4 straight last May 4-3, 6-1, 2-1, and 6-5. That was pre-Schwarber call up. Then in July they again beat them 3 straight vs Niese, Colon and deGrom 1-0, 2-0 f/11, and 6-1. They were +16 runs in those 7 games.

In the playoffs, shit happens. Whether or not this team wins 110 games or the WS isn't really what's important to me. I mean sure it'd be great to win a WS. What's important to me is that if the cubs had everyone healthy they could field an entire starting line up of players under 26 and it'd be one of the better lineups in baseball. Even their bench roll players like Szczur and La Stella are 27 and under. Pitching is a bit more dicey age wise but they have SOOO many hitting prospects who have no real shot with the cubs. For example, no one is talking about Victor Caratini but he's a switch hitting C who's got decent defense and is casually hitting .294/.392/.387 at 22 in AA. By comparison, Contreras at 23 hit .333/.413/.478. So, slightly better but a year or a year a half ago we were talking about how the cubs had no catching prospects. Ian Rice is also raking(.316/.413/.570) in A. I brought this up in the prospect thread so I wont go through all the players but suffice to say they have so much depth positionally. If they start developing some of their wide range net casting of pitchers similar to the way Clifton has progressed they will really be on to something.

 

[CSF77]

I believe a factor was the weather dropping. Think Soler was sporting a blue hood and his bat went cold as well

 

[CSF77]

Add to it they should ass can the ASG having control of the WS home team. Make it the best record getting there hold the home field. This puts more emphasis to the regular season vs a exibition game

 

[cubsmann]

Cubs were bad for years and you can blame a bunch of it on the Tribune. They were about low overhead and under staffing a farm system to turn a buck. For years they sat on Sammy to draw. They let Maddux go vs pay him. Drafts sucked after Green left. And so on. 1998 with Wood and the HR chase reenergized the team then 2003 pushed it up another notch. 2007 was a pending sale that made that short term success. It was to push up the price tag vs making a contender

This team is built right. It is good to be excited. But I would temper it down a notch until they take the prize. Or at least get into the final. Until then they are still pretenders

True it doesn't mean much until they win it all. But I am hardly in the minority when picking them to do just that this year.

 

[Washington]

Whether or not this team wins 110 games or the WS isn't really what's important to me. I mean sure it'd be great to win a WS. What's important to me is that if the cubs had everyone healthy they could field an entire starting line up of players under 26 and it'd be one of the better lineups in baseball. Even their bench roll players like Szczur and La Stella are 27 and under. .

I'd have to ask how old you are. I've been waiting for 50+ years for a Cubs World Series and have been convinced I will never see 2 things in my life - 1) a Cubs WS and 2) a great (OK, good) QB on the Bears. Still waiting...

I could care less if every player on the team was 40 years old if they win the WS. Age means nothing to me. Now, it sure would be great it this team was not one and done and would compete for many years like some Braves and Yankees teams of yesteryear, but I would take that first WS victory over anything else.

When you get this close and Theo can make a key move, you have to do it even if you are giving up future components. It has been what 108 years since they last won. Pay the price and get that HUGE monkey off the organization's and the city's backs. I bet KC was happy with their rental of Cueto last year. Nobody can take away that championship.

 

[Washington]

I believe a factor was the weather dropping. Think Soler was sporting a blue hood and his bat went cold as well

I think it is safe to assume that is going to happen every October when playing in the Midwest and East Coast. They better figure that out and not use it as an excuse. The organization surely is not used to playing then.

 

[SilenceS]

Theo came out and said they were looking for the right moves that will help this team and not mortgage the future. So, I think its safe to assume he isnt just wheeling and dealing because its been "108" years. That kind of logic is what has doomed the Cubs to begin with. Run this organization like you are the Cardinals and the rest will take care of itself. These players have nothing to do with "108" years and its comical thats what fans point to. Theo is going to do what is best for the long term future and success of this franchise. He isnt going to give in to the pressure of screaming fans because of "108" years.

 

[Washington]

Theo came out and said they were looking for the right moves that will help this team and not mortgage the future. So, I think its safe to assume he isnt just wheeling and dealing because its been "108" years. That kind of logic is what has doomed the Cubs to begin with. Run this organization like you are the Cardinals and the rest will take care of itself. These players have nothing to do with "108" years and its comical thats what fans point to. Theo is going to do what is best for the long term future and success of this franchise. He isnt going to give in to the pressure of screaming fans because of "108" years.

Well that is smart no doubt. But, if a key move can be made and you feel it puts you over the top, you make it. I'd take a Cueto-type rental in a heartbeat. If you are running your organization Cardinals style, your organization is loaded with talent. It's not like the Cardinals have not made moves.

Why would fans not point to 108 years? The Cubs have been the laughingstock of baseball due to that 108 years. That on-going streak is brought up annually. It is an embarrassing stretch for a city like Chicago. I do believe Theo knows his legacy is defined by championships and they are very hard to come by. I'm glad Bowman on the Hawks "gets it". I'm looking forward to see what Theo does in his first real championship push. The fans deserve this, especially those who have supported the team for many decades.

 

[SilenceS]

Well that is smart no doubt. But, if a key move can be made and you feel it puts you over the top, you make it. I'd take a Cueto-type rental in a heartbeat. If you are running your organization Cardinals style, your organization is loaded with talent. It's not like the Cardinals have not made moves.

Why would fans not point to 108 years? The Cubs have been the laughingstock of baseball due to that 108 years. That on-going streak is brought up annually. It is an embarrassing stretch for a city like Chicago. I do believe Theo knows his legacy is defined by championships and they are very hard to come by. I'm glad Bowman on the Hawks "gets it". I'm looking forward to see what Theo does in his first real championship push. The fans deserve this, especially those who have supported the team for many decades.

Unless a deal fly's into their lap for a cost controlled young TOR type starter. They are not going to trade for pitching. I mean how could they justify it.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/06/18/the-cubs-starting-rotation-is-historically-good/

The staff has been historic. Hendricks has their worst ERA and he is in the top 30 still and top 25 in fWAR which is a stat Theo and his team covet. The Cubs have 4 of the top 13 pitchers ERA in the league. Its just insane.

The article above shows how insane this rotation is right now. I really think the Cubs need an 7th inning guy that preferably a lefty where Maddon can mix and match him and Strop. The rest of the bullpen has been fine. Rondon has been elite for two years. I dont even know if they can add a bat because they have so much young talent there. I thought they may go get Crawford because he can be had at league minimum, but they have seemed to stay away.

 

[chibears55]

I agree with Silence, unless it's an under 30 TOR type starter with a few more yrs of control left, there no way they deal for any other type of starter this deadline..
Unless of course someone gets hurt or Hammel/Hendricks completely fall apart between now and deadline.

As far as trading for an upgrade in bullpen, bench, and/or LF

Depending on the return and if they will be a fixture on team for a couple years , i think any trades he makes this deadline will be with players that are blocked or in the 2nd , third tier of prospects..
I also feel Soler might be in some kind of deal, though i hope not because i like him and hope when he returns he continues where he left off.

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[Washington]

I mentioned in a previous post that I thought Theo would make moves for the bullpen. I agree we are strong at SP and hitting. I think our bullpen needs some assistance. I used the Cueto rental as a point to making moves that put you over the top even if the price is high. That move was critical to KC and it worked.

Injuries could definitely have an impact on what Theo does, but barring anything significant, the team is well stacked. Again, it will be fun to see what, if anything, Theo does in this championship run. To me, anything less than a WS championship this season should be looked at as a huge disappointment. There will be plenty of opportunities for everyone to do some Monday morning QBing.