2019-20 MLB Hot Stove thread

[anotheridiot]

Makes me think of every Oriole pitcher who was not allowed to throw cutters, then Jake and Strop start twisting them here and become huge difference makers. Then you see what happened with Jake and his velocity after twisting them for 4 or 5 years and think they were ultimately right.

I heard there was a pitch that Giolitto thru alot in 2018 and not once in 2019, sinking fastball maybe? sometimes it works.

 

[CSF77]

Makes me think of every Oriole pitcher who was not allowed to throw cutters, then Jake and Strop start twisting them here and become huge difference makers. Then you see what happened with Jake and his velocity after twisting them for 4 or 5 years and think they were ultimately right.

I heard there was a pitch that Giolitto thru alot in 2018 and not once in 2019, sinking fastball maybe? sometimes it works.

I was pretty much shocked when that was posted on MLBTR. The Yankees really seem like they really force players to mold to their method. Hair cuts and all. But forcing a guy to throw a pitch that he has little control over is dumb.

 

[CSF77]

Well the sinking fastball falls into the launch angle swing path that has become main stream. 4 seem stays above it and hitters pop it up more.

It was more so a counter that pitchers are using.

Jake lost velocity for sure and he had to close his delivery more to hide the ball vs depend on velocity and movement.

It is hard to say with him on the why part. He was a late blosum so he might have just had a good run in him and fell back to what he was. We just got to see it.

 

[beckdawg]

Food for thought.... if the cubs do trade Bryant the most likely candidate to bat second would probably be Schwarber. If you're doing the whole R/L/R/L type deal that Maddon always favored you'd bat Schwarber 2nd and Rizzo 4th with likely Baez being third atm. It's worth noting that Schwarber is a career .232/.341/.514(129 wRC+) hitting second(13.0%/27.0% bb/k). The only spot he has a better k rate is 4th(25%) and 7th(23.8%). The only spots he has a better wRC+ are again 4th(211), and 8th(154). However, in the 4 hole he only has 68 PAs, with 84 in the 7 hole and 92 in the 8 hole. He has 378 batting second. When you add in what Schwarber did in the 2nd half of 2019(.280/.366/.631 151 wRC+ and 10.5%/21.8%) there's a chance for him to be a really big deal.

 

[knoxville7]

Food for thought.... if the cubs do trade Bryant the most likely candidate to bat second would probably be Schwarber. If you're doing the whole R/L/R/L type deal that Maddon always favored you'd bat Schwarber 2nd and Rizzo 4th with likely Baez being third atm. It's worth noting that Schwarber is a career .232/.341/.514(129 wRC+) hitting second(13.0%/27.0% bb/k). The only spot he has a better k rate is 4th(25%) and 7th(23.8%). The only spots he has a better wRC+ are again 4th(211), and 8th(154). However, in the 4 hole he only has 68 PAs, with 84 in the 7 hole and 92 in the 8 hole. He has 378 batting second. When you add in what Schwarber did in the 2nd half of 2019(.280/.366/.631 151 wRC+ and 10.5%/21.8%) there's a chance for him to be a really big deal.

Or maybe you hit Schwarber 4th and let Rizzo hit 2nd

 

[beckdawg]

Or maybe you hit Schwarber 4th and let Rizzo hit 2nd

Maybe but for my money I'd rather have the high contact guy behind the guy who gets on base more than his contact being great.

 

[knoxville7]

Maybe but for my money I'd rather have the high contact guy behind the guy who gets on base more than his contact being great.

I hear ya. Just figure since Schwarber seemed to do well in that 4 spot last year, and Rizzo did well at the top of the lineup. Imagine if we had a legit leadoff guy with high OBP and then Rizzo and his high OBP hitting in front of sluggers Baez and Schwarber.

 

[anotheridiot]

I hear ya. Just figure since Schwarber seemed to do well in that 4 spot last year, and Rizzo did well at the top of the lineup. Imagine if we had a legit leadoff guy with high OBP and then Rizzo and his high OBP hitting in front of sluggers Baez and Schwarber.

But that was our whole argument last year, nobody was driving in runs so Baez had to do it. You get Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber driving in runs (god forbid ask Heyward to do it) and you can let Javy get a shot at leadoff or second behind Nico.I think Rossy is pretty set on who he wants and its why Theo has really not gone hunting for one yet.

All we hear is we have no development, well, Wick, Weick, Alzolay, Maples, Nico has to change that right?

 

[Discus fish salesman]

But that was our whole argument last year, nobody was driving in runs so Baez had to do it. You get Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber driving in runs (god forbid ask Heyward to do it) and you can let Javy get a shot at leadoff or second behind Nico.I think Rossy is pretty set on who he wants and its why Theo has really not gone hunting for one yet.

All we hear is we have no development, well, Wick, Weick, Alzolay, Maples, Nico has to change that right?

I don’t really agree with the we don’t develop pitching, but I’m not sure what your argument is. Wick and Wieck weren’t developed by the cubs. Maples has been terrible. Nico isn’t a pitcher and nobody really says they struggle to develop position players. Alzolay is still a work in progress. Plus most of those guys are relievers. When people talk about struggling to develop pitching they mean starting pitching.

 

[CSF77]

I don’t really agree with the we don’t develop pitching, but I’m not sure what your argument is. Wick and Wieck weren’t developed by the cubs. Maples has been terrible. Nico isn’t a pitcher and nobody really says they struggle to develop position players. Alzolay is still a work in progress. Plus most of those guys are relievers. When people talk about struggling to develop pitching they mean starting pitching.

They draft floor types. That has been the problem for a while now. Even Jensen is fringe and was not expected to go round 1. Turns out he signed under slot to nab Hearn. Another catcher.

So I take this as they don't trust them selves on developing pitching but have a solid track record on developing catching. So they are stock piling one to buy proven of the other.

Again it feels off to me to do this. What makes more sense is hiring staff that have solid track records on developing pitching. Even the pitching coach has little back ground in teaching. His back ground was stats and creating pitch sequences vs accual coaching.

So at the end of the day what they really lack are baseball people. They hire saber guys instead.

 

[TL1961]

I hear ya. Just figure since Schwarber seemed to do well in that 4 spot last year, and Rizzo did well at the top of the lineup. Imagine if we had a legit leadoff guy with high OBP and then Rizzo and his high OBP hitting in front of sluggers Baez and Schwarber.

Rizzo being on base for guys behind him is far less appealing to me than Rizzo hitting with men on in front of him.

I love Rizzo, but he is literally the worst baserunner I have seen in MLB in my entire life.

But he is very good at most everything else.

 

[anotheridiot]

I don’t really agree with the we don’t develop pitching, but I’m not sure what your argument is. Wick and Wieck weren’t developed by the cubs. Maples has been terrible. Nico isn’t a pitcher and nobody really says they struggle to develop position players. Alzolay is still a work in progress. Plus most of those guys are relievers. When people talk about struggling to develop pitching they mean starting pitching.

I did not write pitching, the critics are complaining how bare the system is, that means everyone including a guy that slid down to 25 in the first round that almost every team passed over.
Maples developed as a starter, Underwood developed as a starter, Edwards developed as a starter. Cease developed as a starter.
So if people talk about struggling to develop pitching, they mean starting pitching, and you say you dont really agree with the we dont develp pitching, which side of the discussion are you actually on?
Thats the problem with the internet, a discussion is immediately an argument and most wont even take one side.

 

[knoxville7]

Rizzo being on base for guys behind him is far less appealing to me than Rizzo hitting with men on in front of him.

I love Rizzo, but he is literally the worst baserunner I have seen in MLB in my entire life.

But he is very good at most everything else.

It’s not about his base running(he isn’t good, but I’ve certainly seen worse), it’s about his OBA and the fact that javy and Schwarber are guys that drive runs in and in javys case has a low OBA. It just makes sense to have your high OBA guys hit in front of your RBI guys. Rizzo does both, so he is flexible...but on a roster of guys with mediocre OBA’s it makes him a candidate

 

[anotheridiot]

It’s not about his base running(he isn’t good, but I’ve certainly seen worse), it’s about his OBA and the fact that javy and Schwarber are guys that drive runs in and in javys case has a low OBA. It just makes sense to have your high OBA guys hit in front of your RBI guys. Rizzo does both, so he is flexible...but on a roster of guys with mediocre OBA’s it makes him a candidate

Yeah, that is what it always turns into, I do consider it an argument when people want to have Rizzo ahead of Javy in a lineup because you know Javy wants to take that extra base and create havoc. When rizzo goes station to station, it takes that huge part out of Javy's game. All they are looking at are OBP numbers, not all the extra that Javy gives you on the base paths. No extra base, no guarantee advance on a wild pitch if Rizzo does not move, no scoring from second on a wild pitch if rizzo is planted at third. Its intangibles that dont fit into some guys pocket protector.

 

[knoxville7]

Yeah, that is what it always turns into, I do consider it an argument when people want to have Rizzo ahead of Javy in a lineup because you know Javy wants to take that extra base and create havoc. When rizzo goes station to station, it takes that huge part out of Javy's game. All they are looking at are OBP numbers, not all the extra that Javy gives you on the base paths. No extra base, no guarantee advance on a wild pitch if Rizzo does not move, no scoring from second on a wild pitch if rizzo is planted at third. Its intangibles that dont fit into some guys pocket protector.

Lol it’s funny how looking at OBA is now considered to make someone a “pocket protector guy” in your eyes...even though OBA has been around far longer than the sabermetrics you are downplaying. Learn what you’re actually critiquing before you critique it.

 

[CSF77]

I believe Rickey Henderson was the walks leader at one point also.

Speed diminishes as a player ages. Plate disapline doesn't.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

What a shit show this off season has been. The fact we can’t move any of our contracts speaks to how overpaid most of them are.

I am a bit surprised they haven’t moved Quintana. He’s useless here and at best marginally better than options that would supplant him and still has some value on the market and teams probably think they can fix him.

 

[knoxville7]

What a shit show this off season has been. The fact we can’t move any of our contracts speaks to how overpaid most of them are.

I am a bit surprised they haven’t moved Quintana. He’s useless here and at best marginally better than options that would supplant him and still has some value on the market and teams probably think they can fix him.

Once the FA market has settled where all the big players are going to end up, that’s when you’ll see the trade market materialize. I don’t see other teams making blockbuster deals or anything either...it’s not like the cubs are the only team standing still to this point

 

[Castor76]

Yeah, that is what it always turns into, I do consider it an argument when people want to have Rizzo ahead of Javy in a lineup because you know Javy wants to take that extra base and create havoc. When rizzo goes station to station, it takes that huge part out of Javy's game. All they are looking at are OBP numbers, not all the extra that Javy gives you on the base paths. No extra base, no guarantee advance on a wild pitch if Rizzo does not move, no scoring from second on a wild pitch if rizzo is planted at third. Its intangibles that dont fit into some guys pocket protector.

How many times could the situation occur in a season where Rizzo would be on 3rd and Javy on 2nd and there be such a wild pitch that Javy could stand the chance of scoring from 2nd but Rizzo would also not be running as well? Would it happen even once?

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Once the FA market has settled where all the big players are going to end up, that’s when you’ll see the trade market materialize. I don’t see other teams making blockbuster deals or anything either...it’s not like the cubs are the only team standing still to this point

trouble is the cubs should be the most desperate to do something. The status quo is not a good idea at this point, so whether they want to retool or slightly rebuild, they still needed to do something. But they overpaid most guys so dramatically that they can’t move them without taking a huge loss