2020 Rumor Mill

[Jack Lantern]

I would offer him 5 years at 7, if he doesn’t want it let him walk. He certainly has been decent this season, but I will stand by the fact that when the Hawks needed him the most he folded like a cheap tent. If you are going to demand a top wage you need to earn it, Lehner is not worth 8 million a season on team that will be at the bottom of the standings for the next few years while they get this together. Sign CC for 2 years bring up the kid from Rockford and trade Lehner for picks and the deadline.

Bad move. Blackhawks have Toews 10.5 cap hit for 3 more years. Seabrook's 6.5 will go longer. That's nearly 20 million cap space on dead weight. NHL Salary cap for this year is 81 million, lol. So you see why I keep harping on dead weight contracts and cap space.

The roster makeup is not gonna do well when just 2 bodies take up nearly a quarter of the cap, lol. Both out of their primes. Tank 3 more seasons after this so that means Lehner needs to go for draft picks.

SELL SELL SELL. Tank it hard til least start of the 2023-2024 season at the earliest when the bloated contracts start coming off the books.

 

[anotheridiot]

the question is will any of the core be willing to waive their no trade to get back in the playoffs? Maybe the real question, is are any of them playing better than they have the past 2 years to actually be seen as difference makers? Everyone knows Keith lost a step, spends time turning back waiting for changes rather than advancing the puck with some speed, cant seem to hit the 6x4 from the blue line anymore, but his stick positioning has been pretty damn good this year to compensate and we know he is not comfortable with this system.

Otherwise we are going to watch secondary players getting moved again for expiring deals or third and fourth round picks that will never make this roster.

 

[Granada]

the question is will any of the core be willing to waive their no trade to get back in the playoffs? Maybe the real question, is are any of them playing better than they have the past 2 years to actually be seen as difference makers? Everyone knows Keith lost a step, spends time turning back waiting for changes rather than advancing the puck with some speed, cant seem to hit the 6x4 from the blue line anymore, but his stick positioning has been pretty damn good this year to compensate and we know he is not comfortable with this system.

Otherwise we are going to watch secondary players getting moved again for expiring deals or third and fourth round picks that will never make this roster.

Keith can still be a top-4 option on a deep team in my view. His contract is very reasonable for a top-4 also, but who knows if he'd waive his NMC. I don't think you're moving Kane and Toews' contract will be very hard to move without taking back a horrible contract in return. So Keith has the best chance of being moved in my view, but I wouldn't bet on it happening -- I think they're all kept.

The players you have to look at moving are Saad, Murphy, one of Crow/Lehner, maybe even Strome. We're stuck with de Haan and Seabrook; and even Toews. Kane is the only thing that is selling tickets for the Blackhawks right now, so he isn't going anywhere.

On an unrelated note, Bowman must be kicking himself for not waiting to sign Debrincat. Could you imagine the leverage Stan would have had after this horrible season by Debrincat? The first year of his new contract begins next year.

 

[Jack Lantern]

the question is will any of the core be willing to waive their no trade to get back in the playoffs? Maybe the real question, is are any of them playing better than they have the past 2 years to actually be seen as difference makers? Everyone knows Keith lost a step, spends time turning back waiting for changes rather than advancing the puck with some speed, cant seem to hit the 6x4 from the blue line anymore, but his stick positioning has been pretty damn good this year to compensate and we know he is not comfortable with this system.

Otherwise we are going to watch secondary players getting moved again for expiring deals or third and fourth round picks that will never make this roster.

Ding Ding Ding Ding! This poster gets it. This has been Stan's dilemma for years and it's going to continue this way for least the next 2-3 seasons.

Kubalik and his agent is going to want a raise after this season as well. It's going to be a constant merry go round to work around the cap.

81 million is not much at all when all the bloated contracts are on guys out of their primes and I am afraid guys like Toews 10.5 can't be moved even if he waves his no movement clause cause that's a steep cap hit to take on for a guy with a ton of hockey mileage.

 

[MassHavoc]

Everyone is on the table. Even Kane. I don't want to lose him but at this point Mediocre is worse than good or bad in that it's a paralyzing position of inability to get better with a good team, and inability to get better through sucking and rebuilding. Dumping the core might be just the thing to rejump start the organization. But again. As I've said. Stan is not the guy to do it. And The Grinch is not the guy to hire his replacement. So... we're fucked boyos... right properly fucked.

 

[anotheridiot]

They were doing ok until he decided he needed DeHaan and Maata. Joker, Bovquist and Gus make up one of their salaries. Really highly doubt we are that much better with those two strangling this cap for 3 more years. Gilbert was not even on the radar and filled in nicely, still waiting for Beaudin and Mitchell too, probably never wear a hawk sweater. They are already figuring they cant afford Gus anymore so will probably look to move him.

He did it before with Murphy thinking he could not afford Hammer closing out his 5/20.5 deal, then he took 2/10 to stick with Arizona. I guess Bowman figured Hammer was going to want 6. The trade of Darling when he turned down a sweet deal, get saad and panarin to sign sweet deals and move them anyway, Stans a mess.

 

[Jack Lantern]

don't lose sight of the 3 cups noobs

They were doing ok until he decided he needed DeHaan and Maata. Joker, Bovquist and Gus make up one of their salaries. Really highly doubt we are that much better with those two strangling this cap for 3 more years. Gilbert was not even on the radar and filled in nicely, still waiting for Beaudin and Mitchell too, probably never wear a hawk sweater. They are already figuring they cant afford Gus anymore so will probably look to move him.

He did it before with Murphy thinking he could not afford Hammer closing out his 5/20.5 deal, then he took 2/10 to stick with Arizona. I guess Bowman figured Hammer was going to want 6. The trade of Darling when he turned down a sweet deal, get saad and panarin to sign sweet deals and move them anyway, Stans a mess.

You can say same about every front office after the fact. Hawks still have the best run front office in the city noob.

Look at the 1 and done cubs and what Theo Epstein has done with that roster. That potential dynasty run got its door closed real fast...and he's gifted with a HUGE PAYROLL. Epstein would not know what to do with a salary cap.

 

[anotheridiot]

Playing like shite and still the same points back in the wild card. I guess alot of teams are playing this badly.

 

[LordKOTL]

I would offer him 5 years at 7, if he doesn’t want it let him walk. He certainly has been decent this season, but I will stand by the fact that when the Hawks needed him the most he folded like a cheap tent. If you are going to demand a top wage you need to earn it, Lehner is not worth 8 million a season on team that will be at the bottom of the standings for the next few years while they get this together. Sign CC for 2 years bring up the kid from Rockford and trade Lehner for picks and the deadline.

I don't disagree with your post. Lehner can likely command 7-8M on the open market and doesn't want a sweetheart deal, so it's best to parlay him into some assets moving forward rather than lose him for nothing. Plus, we can sign Dr. Craw cheap for 1-2 years and give a prospect a bonafied shot at taking the reins.

However, I think there are a few skaters who deserve the "when we needed them the most they folded like lawn furniture" over Lehner.

don't lose sight of the 3 cups noobs


You can say same about every front office after the fact. Hawks still have the best run front office in the city noob.

Look at the 1 and done cubs and what Theo Epstein has done with that roster. That potential dynasty run got its door closed real fast...and he's gifted with a HUGE PAYROLL. Epstein would not know what to do with a salary cap.

Just because the 'hawks FO is the best in Chicago doesn't automatically make it good. There's a lot to be desired about how Bowman the Lesser has ran things as the core acquired by Smith and Tallon has slowly left the team.

 

[Granada]

Just because the 'hawks FO is the best in Chicago doesn't automatically make it good. There's a lot to be desired about how Bowman the Lesser has ran things as the core acquired by Smith and Tallon has slowly left the team.

This is what newer fans never understand. They can only see the 3 Cups, because that's when they started paying attention.

 

[Tater]

I figured there would be more leaks and rumors about trades, is Stan planning on standing pat?

 

[Granada]

I figured there would be more leaks and rumors about trades, is Stan planning on standing pat?

You never know with Blowman. Standing pat is the last thing he should do, but then again, it would not surprise me in the least if that's what he does. That way, he can blame this year on injuries and throw out the same ol' "We like our team" garbage.

I'm just guessing here, but assuming players will actually be moved, there are really only two players I can't see being jettisoned: Toews and Kane. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be; I'm just saying, I can't see it happening. The biggest names I can see being moved out at the deadline are one of Lehner/Crow, Gus, Murphy, and Strome. I wouldn't be shocked to see Caggiula gone either. Saad is a hard case to predict -- he doesn't have a NMC, but I can see Bowman wanting to retain him, depending on his plan next year.

If it's one guy that I could see moved from the core at the deadline, it's Keith, but I highly doubt he moves his no-trade clause. Other than that, Toews is too pricey, Kane will be kept because he's Bowman's cash-cow, Seabrook is injured (and no one would want that contract anyway).

 

[MassHavoc]

It feels like everyone assumes Lehner is just going to come back with a nice friendly contract, but after the shit show of this year, he's going to have plenty of attractive enough offers, why would he want to come back?

 

[anotheridiot]

You never know with Blowman. Standing pat is the last thing he should do, but then again, it would not surprise me in the least if that's what he does. That way, he can blame this year on injuries and throw out the same ol' "We like our team" garbage.

I'm just guessing here, but assuming players will actually be moved, there are really only two players I can't see being jettisoned: Toews and Kane. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be; I'm just saying, I can't see it happening. The biggest names I can see being moved out at the deadline are one of Lehner/Crow, Gus, Murphy, and Strome. I wouldn't be shocked to see Caggiula gone either. Saad is a hard case to predict -- he doesn't have a NMC, but I can see Bowman wanting to retain him, depending on his plan next year.

If it's one guy that I could see moved from the core at the deadline, it's Keith, but I highly doubt he moves his no-trade clause. Other than that, Toews is too pricey, Kane will be kept because he's Bowman's cash-cow, Seabrook is injured (and no one would want that contract anyway).

Well, someone took Hossas contract knowing he was not going to play anymore. I know his pay was a million a year, but the cap hit was still over 5 million. Wonder if Arizona would be upgrading if that money were not over their head.
Our problem is the ones you mentioned, really only play in the west, so half the teams are out. If they play physical, they are also out. So it give maybe 5 teams that would want Keither, Seaber, Gusser, Stromer, Murpher. Saad played in the east, did not really pan out, so probably not either.

I just cant see this team clearing the log jam at D without moving Gus or Murphy. Dont think Kane is gonna like Gus getting moved, but he can figure it out with anybody.

Definitely need to move Lehnar though, but who wants a guy that cant win a shootout?

 

[Jack Lantern]

You never know with Blowman. Standing pat is the last thing he should do, but then again, it would not surprise me in the least if that's what he does. That way, he can blame this year on injuries and throw out the same ol' "We like our team" garbage.

I'm just guessing here, but assuming players will actually be moved, there are really only two players I can't see being jettisoned: Toews and Kane. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be; I'm just saying, I can't see it happening. The biggest names I can see being moved out at the deadline are one of Lehner/Crow, Gus, Murphy, and Strome. I wouldn't be shocked to see Caggiula gone either. Saad is a hard case to predict -- he doesn't have a NMC, but I can see Bowman wanting to retain him, depending on his plan next year.

If it's one guy that I could see moved from the core at the deadline, it's Keith, but I highly doubt he moves his no-trade clause. Other than that, Toews is too pricey, Kane will be kept because he's Bowman's cash-cow, Seabrook is injured (and no one would want that contract anyway).

He'll have no choice but to unload this year. This loss streak happening less then week before trade deadline will make it easier for him.

 

[LordKOTL]

I figured there would be more leaks and rumors about trades, is Stan planning on standing pat?

You never know with Blowman. Standing pat is the last thing he should do, but then again, it would not surprise me in the least if that's what he does. That way, he can blame this year on injuries and throw out the same ol' "We like our team" garbage.

I'm just guessing here, but assuming players will actually be moved, there are really only two players I can't see being jettisoned: Toews and Kane. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be; I'm just saying, I can't see it happening. The biggest names I can see being moved out at the deadline are one of Lehner/Crow, Gus, Murphy, and Strome. I wouldn't be shocked to see Caggiula gone either. Saad is a hard case to predict -- he doesn't have a NMC, but I can see Bowman wanting to retain him, depending on his plan next year.

If it's one guy that I could see moved from the core at the deadline, it's Keith, but I highly doubt he moves his no-trade clause. Other than that, Toews is too pricey, Kane will be kept because he's Bowman's cash-cow, Seabrook is injured (and no one would want that contract anyway).

You also have to figure in recapture for Keith...

Call me a cynical bastard but I thing that what should happen and what Stan does might be quite different. I agree that we should be selling and I think Toews/Kane/Keith are likely untouchable from the cap-friendly angle, recapture angle, play vs. cap angle, and the heart-and-soul of the team angle (you have to figure that if, say, Toews is moved it would cause a lot of fair-weather fans to stop spending their cash on 'hawks stuff). The rest? Tear it down and build for the future with the remaining vet pieces being mentors.

Flipside? I still think Stan may be fighting for his job--so he has every incentive to go for it even though it's a fools errand.

It feels like everyone assumes Lehner is just going to come back with a nice friendly contract, but after the shit show of this year, he's going to have plenty of attractive enough offers, why would he want to come back?

I think Lehner has came out and said he doesn't want to give a sweetheart deal to anyone--that he wants to make his money. Couple that with the Team D as it stands and the cap the 'hawks are already paying to players on the wrong side of their prime and I think that Lehner might find greener pastures elsewhere.

So why not try and get *something* for him?

Well, someone took Hossas contract knowing he was not going to play anymore. I know his pay was a million a year, but the cap hit was still over 5 million. Wonder if Arizona would be upgrading if that money were not over their head.
Our problem is the ones you mentioned, really only play in the west, so half the teams are out. If they play physical, they are also out. So it give maybe 5 teams that would want Keither, Seaber, Gusser, Stromer, Murpher. Saad played in the east, did not really pan out, so probably not either.

I just cant see this team clearing the log jam at D without moving Gus or Murphy. Dont think Kane is gonna like Gus getting moved, but he can figure it out with anybody.

Definitely need to move Lehnar though, but who wants a guy that cant win a shootout?

AZ is a cap floor team. Teams like that will take those contracts because they can spend less on actual salaries and it helps their books. There aren't a lot of cap floor teams, and they tend to prefer recapture deals because of the cap advantage--like $4M plus on Hossa's. Seabs, by contrast, has a cap advantage from as little as less than a million to about 2.375M.

Someone mentioned with Grubauer out for Colorado we can try Lehner there. I wouldn't be against that if we got something decent coming back.

Saad could fetch something back because he's been playing well but he might be on the move next TDL. Murph is one of the few guys we got that actually plays defense fairly well. Strome and Gus? I'd try to move. Seabs might be a lost cause.

 

[Granada]

Well, someone took Hossas contract knowing he was not going to play anymore. I know his pay was a million a year, but the cap hit was still over 5 million. Wonder if Arizona would be upgrading if that money were not over their head.
Our problem is the ones you mentioned, really only play in the west, so half the teams are out. If they play physical, they are also out. So it give maybe 5 teams that would want Keither, Seaber, Gusser, Stromer, Murpher. Saad played in the east, did not really pan out, so probably not either.

I just cant see this team clearing the log jam at D without moving Gus or Murphy. Dont think Kane is gonna like Gus getting moved, but he can figure it out with anybody.

Definitely need to move Lehnar though, but who wants a guy that cant win a shootout?

Arizona needed that contract in order for them to remain above the Cap floor at the time, but they also received Hinostroza, Oesterle, and multiple picks to take on Hossa's dead contract -- so if you want to include very high prospects and multiple draft picks in order to move a contract like Seabrook's, say, that pretty much defeats the purpose if the goal is to rebuild, which it should be.

 

[Granada]

It feels like everyone assumes Lehner is just going to come back with a nice friendly contract, but after the shit show of this year, he's going to have plenty of attractive enough offers, why would he want to come back?

Don't include me in everyone -- I've been saying since he was acquired that he might not stay. The current status of this team should make his decision to leave all the more easy, regardless of the amount Bowman offers.

 

[Granada]

You also have to figure in recapture for Keith...

Call me a cynical bastard but I thing that what should happen and what Stan does might be quite different. I agree that we should be selling and I think Toews/Kane/Keith are likely untouchable from the cap-friendly angle, recapture angle, play vs. cap angle, and the heart-and-soul of the team angle (you have to figure that if, say, Toews is moved it would cause a lot of fair-weather fans to stop spending their cash on 'hawks stuff). The rest? Tear it down and build for the future with the remaining vet pieces being mentors.

Flipside? I still think Stan may be fighting for his job--so he has every incentive to go for it even though it's a fools errand.

I think Lehner has came out and said he doesn't want to give a sweetheart deal to anyone--that he wants to make his money. Couple that with the Team D as it stands and the cap the 'hawks are already paying to players on the wrong side of their prime and I think that Lehner might find greener pastures elsewhere.

So why not try and get *something* for him?

AZ is a cap floor team. Teams like that will take those contracts because they can spend less on actual salaries and it helps their books. There aren't a lot of cap floor teams, and they tend to prefer recapture deals because of the cap advantage--like $4M plus on Hossa's. Seabs, by contrast, has a cap advantage from as little as less than a million to about 2.375M.

Someone mentioned with Grubauer out for Colorado we can try Lehner there. I wouldn't be against that if we got something decent coming back.

Saad could fetch something back because he's been playing well but he might be on the move next TDL. Murph is one of the few guys we got that actually plays defense fairly well. Strome and Gus? I'd try to move. Seabs might be a lost cause.

The recapture stuff I'm hazy on, but I don't think that would be a huge concern at this point, especially with Keith -- who can still play. Seabrook will probably not finish out his contract of course, but he will probably just do what Hossa did and not officially retire. Besides, I thought the recapture penalty only kicks in if the player's personal (total) salary is more than the AAV/cap hit...if that is the case, Keith's remaining years is fine and Seabrook's personal salary is higher than his cap hit, but only for this season -- the rest of his contract is fine. That's how I understand it, anyway.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/duncan-keith
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/brent-seabrook

 

[anotheridiot]

AZ is a cap floor team. Teams like that will take those contracts because they can spend less on actual salaries and it helps their books. There aren't a lot of cap floor teams, and they tend to prefer recapture deals because of the cap advantage--like $4M plus on Hossa's. Seabs, by contrast, has a cap advantage from as little as less than a million to about 2.375M.

Was a cap floor team. No more, which is why I said that 5 million could have been used now that they are a playoff team. Today they are at 86 million, no room. They are in worse shape than the hawks.

Either way, I am hoping there is no Hawk movement because Rocky will not allow stan to make this roster worse.