2020 Rumor Mill

[Tater]

Some love for Puckjim...

you might be right about KooKoo.

From secondcity hockey..

"Chicago stumbled upon a great depth defensive pairing in Slater Koekkoek and Olli Maatta, who have put up a 55-percent Corsi For and 58.76-percent expected goal share, and have been the team’s statistically best pairing with more than 30 minutes of five-on-five time."

So you're...

 

[puckjim]

you don't get it.

THEY give US picks to take TVR.
He upgrades KooKoo for a long shot playoff run to boot.
There is no long term high reward.
Its a short term minor reward and a mid to late pick for taking his cap hit.

Koo Koo will be gone after this season anyway to make room for Beaudin and mitchell as you mentioned, maybe Gilbert too. They can take Koo Koo back if they want in the trade and then help add a fwd to what they think is a cup run in Carolina.

I don’t believe TVR makes enough to aid in Carolina’s quest to create cap space.

Some love for Puckjim...

you might be right about KooKoo.

From secondcity hockey..

"Chicago stumbled upon a great depth defensive pairing in Slater Koekkoek and Olli Maatta, who have put up a 55-percent Corsi For and 58.76-percent expected goal share, and have been the team’s statistically best pairing with more than 30 minutes of five-on-five time."

Let's be clear: Slater Koekkoek blows. But the idea that TVR is measurably better is laughable and not supported statistically in any scenario. Depth defensemen are not what the Blackhawks need. Trading a 10th round pick for 3 mos of TVR is crazy.

And I don't believe shedding his cap hit radically improves Carolina's chances in acquiring a meaningful piece for a playoff run.

 

[Granada]

On a rebuilding team, yes it matters.
If you’re giving up ANY picks, it has to be enough to matter.

What about TVR’s career that you’ve so closely watched gives you hope of high rewards?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding here: so your idea of a rebuilding is to simply accumulate the most draft picks every single year, and to not simply let the young players you already have develop in your system. Am I understanding that right?

The fact that you wouldn't think anyone is better than Koekkoek is what's laughable.

 

[Granada]

Ok, I see what you're saying. But that's not where I'm going here.

Here's an example....Canes are capped out and need some wiggle room to make a deadline trade for a playoff run. The Hawks have cap space available....they say we'll take an expiring contract off your hands giving you some cap space plus toss in some useless player in our system...in return you also send us a 3rd or 4th round draft pick.

The Hawks have about 11 mill in space, they could do this a few times. Now you might say, ok but all you end up with is a bunch middle to upper middle picks. That would be correct. But those picks come in pretty handy if a guy you like is just out of your drafting range and you want to move up to get him. Plus there are a lot of good NHL players that are not Top 10 picks. In the hands of a good GM.....it could speed up a rebuild substantially.

If they want to give us a draft pick with TVR, that's fine by me. The thing is though, what is the percentage of 3rd and 4th round picks that actually make a substantial difference in the NHL? I would bet the percentage is pretty low.

I'm not saying get rid of your 1st and 2nd round picks, but in my view, you can't just keep accumulating picks every single year -- at some point, you have to let the young players you already have develop; you can't just keep cycling them out every year and replacing them with draft picks, even on a rebuilding team.

Also, draft picks aren't the only way to go about it. You can acquire top prospects (from other teams) through trades as well -- fuck, I'd almost rather Bowman go this route actually, considering his own draft history.

 

[puckjim]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding here: so your idea of a rebuilding is to simply accumulate the most draft picks every single year, and to not simply let the young players you already have develop in your system. Am I understanding that right?

The fact that you wouldn't think anyone is better than Koekkoek is what's laughable.

Yes...accumulate the most draft picks every year, as most prospect don't pan out and you want as many darts as possible.

Where did I say you don't let prospects develop? I think I specifically mentioned that they have Beaudin and Mitchell coming and you need to be sure they have slots. Also....Brent Seabrook is likely coming back, so there's that.

Koekoek isn't good, but improving the #6/#7 defensive slot does not help this team one bit.

Neither does TVR. TVR doesn't really help any team.

 

[anotheridiot]

If they want to give us a draft pick with TVR, that's fine by me. The thing is though, what is the percentage of 3rd and 4th round picks that actually make a substantial difference in the NHL? I would bet the percentage is pretty low.

I'm not saying get rid of your 1st and 2nd round picks, but in my view, you can't just keep accumulating picks every single year -- at some point, you have to let the young players you already have develop; you can't just keep cycling them out every year and replacing them with draft picks, even on a rebuilding team.

Also, draft picks aren't the only way to go about it. You can acquire top prospects (from other teams) through trades as well -- fuck, I'd almost rather Bowman go this route actually, considering his own draft history.

We have a record of being better with international signings than draft picks anyway.

To me it was more of a guy we did not need to get rid of over we should try to get him back. The train of bad moves has to stop sometimes. I would prefer we stand pat so the next GM has something left to work with.

 

[Granada]

Yes...accumulate the most draft picks every year, as most prospect don't pan out and you want as many darts as possible.

Where did I say you don't let prospects develop? I think I specifically mentioned that they have Beaudin and Mitchell coming and you need to be sure they have slots. Also....Brent Seabrook is likely coming back, so there's that.

Koekoek isn't good, but improving the #6/#7 defensive slot does not help this team one bit.

Neither does TVR. TVR doesn't really help any team.

How can you let your prospects develop when you're cycling them out every year and drafting the most amount of new players you can every year?

There's a happy medium here. You don't have to have a million draft picks every year; you can spare some, even if you're rebuilding. Most prospects don't pan out -- okay, and most draft picks don't either.

TVR would be an improvement over Koekkoek, no matter how you slice it. I'm not saying give up a lot to get him, but if you can get him for peanuts, fine; if not, I wouldn't care.

 

[Diehardfan]

If they want to give us a draft pick with TVR, that's fine by me. The thing is though, what is the percentage of 3rd and 4th round picks that actually make a substantial difference in the NHL? I would bet the percentage is pretty low.

I'm not saying get rid of your 1st and 2nd round picks, but in my view, you can't just keep accumulating picks every single year -- at some point, you have to let the young players you already have develop; you can't just keep cycling them out every year and replacing them with draft picks, even on a rebuilding team.

Also, draft picks aren't the only way to go about it. You can acquire top prospects (from other teams) through trades as well -- fuck, I'd almost rather Bowman go this route actually, considering his own draft history.

First, the example I gave was just to show what I meant. 4th round would be as far as I would go, preferably 2nds or 3rds....and they do come in handy. Bowman was able to get Kubalik from the Kings for a 4th, I think. That's the whole thing about Bowman and the draft....he's friggin one dimemsional. He does a decent job on forwards but he's absolutely dismal drafting defensemen and goalies. Since 2010, Boqvist is the only defence player drafted playing currently on the Blackhawks and he came in 2018. That's gotta be 25 or 30 wasted picks. Trading for a young stud with Bowman isn't a layup either.....the name Nylander quickly comes to mind. And I'm not as down on him as most are.....

That's why the qualifier is good or competent GM.

 

[Granada]

First, the example I gave was just to show what I meant. 4th round would be as far as I would go, preferably 2nds or 3rds....and they do come in handy. Bowman was able to get Kubalik from the Kings for a 4th, I think. That's the whole thing about Bowman and the draft....he's friggin one dimemsional. He does a decent job on forwards but he's absolutely dismal drafting defensemen and goalies. Since 2010, Boqvist is the only defence player drafted playing currently on the Blackhawks and he came in 2018. That's gotta be 25 or 30 wasted picks. Trading for a young stud with Bowman isn't a layup either.....the name Nylander quickly comes to mind. And I'm not as down on him as most are.....

That's why the qualifier is good or competent GM.

In response to your Nylander point -- you're taking a chance either way, whether in the draft or trading for a prospect. My point was, accumulating a massive amount of picks isn't the only way to rebuild a team. The main goal, in my view, is accumulating the most high-end picks you can -- not necessarily the most picks in general. I'm not saying you can't sometimes get lucky with later picks and that you should trade away every single one of your later picks, but again, sparing a mid-to-late range pick or two isn't going to completely destroy a rebuild.

 

[Raskolnikov]

First, the example I gave was just to show what I meant. 4th round would be as far as I would go, preferably 2nds or 3rds....and they do come in handy. Bowman was able to get Kubalik from the Kings for a 4th, I think. That's the whole thing about Bowman and the draft....he's friggin one dimemsional. He does a decent job on forwards but he's absolutely dismal drafting defensemen and goalies. Since 2010, Boqvist is the only defence player drafted playing currently on the Blackhawks and he came in 2018. That's gotta be 25 or 30 wasted picks. Trading for a young stud with Bowman isn't a layup either.....the name Nylander quickly comes to mind. And I'm not as down on him as most are.....

That's why the qualifier is good or competent GM.

I remember the Kings getting a 6th back believe it or not. I looked it up, and it was a 5th, so split the difference.

 

[puckjim]

How can you let your prospects develop when you're cycling them out every year and drafting the most amount of new players you can every year?

There's a happy medium here. You don't have to have a million draft picks every year; you can spare some, even if you're rebuilding. Most prospects don't pan out -- okay, and most draft picks don't either.

TVR would be an improvement over Koekkoek, no matter how you slice it. I'm not saying give up a lot to get him, but if you can get him for peanuts, fine; if not, I wouldn't care.

What I'm saying that even if TVR is an improvement it's not worth giving up anything for a microscopically better player that does not help the team one bit.

And for a team that is facing a complete tear-down and rebuild, giving away draft picks for shitty players is only something Stan Bowman would do.

 

[Granada]

What I'm saying that even if TVR is an improvement it's not worth giving up anything for a microscopically better player that does not help the team one bit.

And for a team that is facing a complete tear-down and rebuild, giving away draft picks for shitty players is only something Stan Bowman would do.

It would help in the short-term for a playoff push. They are not facing a complete tear-down and rebuild until this off-season, and who knows if Bowman will actually have the balls to do it then.

You act like giving up one 4th round pick is going to be the end of the world. It isn't.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I want Bowman to make an 18 month plan, and clean up the house recouping every bit of value he can for that goal. First...pick 7 guys you are keeping for defense in 2021 playoff run.

1. Keith 2. Murphy 3. Seabrook 4. Maata 5. Boqvist 6. DeHaan 7. Mitchell 8. Beudin 9. Koekkoek 10. Gilbert

Re-sign Strome/Lehner(extend now)/Kubalik(extend now)...trade Saad or Seabrook if that needs to happen first. Keep Saad if you can.

Choose between Jewels or Shaw.

If you do needed housekeeping and the 2020 team can still make a run...have at it boys. LETS GO!!

 

[puckjim]

It would help in the short-term for a playoff push. They are not facing a complete tear-down and rebuild until this off-season, and who knows if Bowman will actually have the balls to do it then.

You act like giving up one 4th round pick is going to be the end of the world. It isn't.

And you are acting like subbing TVR for Koekkoek will make any difference at all. It won't.

 

[Granada]

And you are acting like subbing TVR for Koekkoek will make any difference at all. It won't.

Disagree. TVR has multiple years of playoff experience compared to Koekkoek and has actually been quite useful for Carolina his entire tenure there compared to the latter's time here.

You can't have it both ways. We'd all love to obtain a top-3 D-man at the deadline, but a) no one is giving that up at the deadline and b) if you're this scared of giving away a middle pick, what the hell do you think you would have to give up for a top-3 d-man? Much more, obviously. That's why you have to improve the team with low-risk, high-reward moves (if the goal is to make the playoffs this year). It's either that, or stand pat -- to suggest otherwise is utter fantasy.

 

[puckjim]

I want Bowman to make an 18 month plan, and clean up the house recouping every bit of value he can for that goal. First...pick 7 guys you are keeping for defense in 2021 playoff run.

1. Keith 2. Murphy 3. Seabrook 4. Maata 5. Boqvist 6. DeHaan 7. Mitchell 8. Beudin 9. Koekkoek 10. Gilbert

Re-sign Strome/Lehner(extend now)/Kubalik(extend now)...trade Saad or Seabrook if that needs to happen first. Keep Saad if you can.

Choose between Jewels or Shaw.

If you do needed housekeeping and the 2020 team can still make a run...have at it boys. LETS GO!!

Seabrook is un-tradeable. As is Shaw. The best they can hope is that Seabrook stays gone, but his cap hit returns in the summer. I don't see any way they can sign Kubalik, Lehner, and Strome and keep Saad.

 

[puckjim]

Disagree. TVR has multiple years of playoff experience compared to Koekkoek and has actually been quite useful for Carolina his entire tenure there compared to the latter's time here.

You can't have it both ways. We'd all love to obtain a top-3 D-man at the deadline, but a) no one is giving that up at the deadline and b) if you're this scared of giving away a middle pick, what the hell do you think you would have to give up for a top-3 d-man? Much more, obviously. That's why you have to improve the team with low-risk, high-reward moves (if the goal is to make the playoffs this year). It's either that, or stand pat -- to suggest otherwise is utter fantasy.

Carolina is in a playoff push...Why would they get rid of him if he's so "useful and experienced?"

How does a different #6 defensemen help this team?

The only way you get a top 3 defenseman is by giving up picks to get his expiring salary.

If the goal is to make the playoffs, you give up those picks to get someone that could actually help.

TVR is as useless as Koekkoek and wouldn't help anyone.

 

[Granada]

Carolina is in a playoff push...Why would they get rid of him if he's so "useful and experienced?"

How does a different #6 defensemen help this team?

The only way you get a top 3 defenseman is by giving up picks to get his expiring salary.

If the goal is to make the playoffs, you give up those picks to get someone that could actually help.

TVR is as useless as Koekkoek and wouldn't help anyone.

The same reason why we would get rid of Crawford; or why any team would get rid of an expiring contract they know they won't be able to afford next year, so they might as well get a pick at least.

 

[anotheridiot]

I want Bowman to make an 18 month plan, and clean up the house recouping every bit of value he can for that goal. First...pick 7 guys you are keeping for defense in 2021 playoff run.

1. Keith 2. Murphy 3. Seabrook 4. Maata 5. Boqvist 6. DeHaan 7. Mitchell 8. Beudin 9. Koekkoek 10. Gilbert

Re-sign Strome/Lehner(extend now)/Kubalik(extend now)...trade Saad or Seabrook if that needs to happen first. Keep Saad if you can.

Choose between Jewels or Shaw.

If you do needed housekeeping and the 2020 team can still make a run...have at it boys. LETS GO!!

I dont want Bowman to be involved in the next plan.

 

[puckjim]

The same reason why we would get rid of Crawford; or why any team would get rid of an expiring contract they know they won't be able to afford next year, so they might as well get a pick at least.

I doubt Carolina will be selling. They will buying and have cap relief because of the Dougie Hamilton injury.

They could use a goalie, but I would imagine a blueliner is a bigger need.