A couple throw away seasons turning into sustained long term success...........

[KBisBack!]

i didnt say they cant or shouldnt do it both ways..

Actually you did.

You said there were only two choices. Build the farm or spend on FA.
.

just saying they decided to go in the direction of first establishing a system and bringing in younger core players from within and trades..

And people are pointing out the FACTS that it will take a whole lot longer than just a couple years or in the near future like you keep hanging your hat on.

Continue to ignore the facts presented to you.

like i said you all can keep complaining and whining over what process their taking..
Fact is they are in a better position now in both their minor league system and major league level then they were after the 2010 and 2011 season and until we see how it ends up there no point is pissing and moaning about a future we have no idea of..

You are an idiot if you really think the major league team is in better shape now then at the end of 2010 or 2011.

And a future we have no idea of??

You keep saying that the near future is going to be great.

I am the one pointing out how dumb it is to throw away seasons on a future that is far from guaranteed.

You are fucking talking in circles now. A lot of words but nothing meaningful at all being said.

You are like the James Brown song. Talking Loud and Sayin Nothin.

 

[KBisBack!]

So, no effort equals bitching from you all.

Attempting to get one of the top FA pitchers available last year (not a good class, but still) still equals bitching from you all.

Makes a ton of sense.

100 loss seasons equals bitching from us all.

But 100 loss seasons equals success to you.

Makes a ton of sense.

Again, where is your list of teams that threw away a couple seasons and turned into long termed sustained success.

You like to ***** and cry about little things while totally ignoring the main topic of thread.

Address the main topic, admit it is very hard to do or stop whining.

 

[Franko725]

Oh, I am so sorry for pointing out your hypocrisy, oh great and wonderful KB.

I would like for you to point out where I have EVER said that a 100 loss season is acceptable? Won't find it there buddy.

As for your question as to naming teams that have thrown away multiple seasons to get sustained success, you likely won't find any. Why? Because teams are not just out there TRYING to throw away seasons. The Cubs were not a 100 loss team last year until the trade deadline. At that point, when it was obvious that they were not going to compete, they traded away the guys that they could get something of a good/decent return for. No way that they would have been a 100 loss team if they would have kept Malholm and Dempster.

I have an idea, how about you go start yet another thread to ***** about the same stuff that you do in EVERY other thread?

 

[chibears55]

And people are pointing out the FACTS that it will take a whole lot longer than just a couple years or in the near future like you keep hanging your hat on.

Continue to ignore the facts presented to yo

u.

you continue to ignore that i did mention it would take more then 2 yrs to go the route they decided to take..

You are an idiot if you really think the major league team is in better shape now then at the end of 2010 or 2011.

that just goes to show how your either ignorant towards what theyve accomplished so far or just on here to piss and moan cause you have nothing better to do.
to think they were in a better position those 2 yrs of having end of the road veterans with no system to turn too to replace them and losing 90 games both yrs
was being being better then having an improved system now and younger core major league players establishing themselves is being an idiot..

And a future we have no idea of??

You keep saying that the near future is going to be great.

I am the one pointing out how dumb it is to throw away seasons on a future that is far from guaranteed.

dont think i used the words great above for their future.. i said we have no idea what its going to end up being, so its pointless to piss and moan about it now.

you look as these last 2 seasons as being thrown away, thats your choice dont make you right..
most fans see it as cleaning up or fixxing what was bad and restoring it, thats our choice dont make us right..
we just dont choose to insult people over their thinking as you and a couple of your buddies like to on here..

 

[patg006]

100% wrong.

You have THREE choices.

You can also try and field a competitive team, including spending on FA while building up the farm system like most of the other teams do.

Only the morons believe it has to be an either or choice. You don't want to be a part of that group.

Everyone is rubbing themselves raw over the current flavor of the moment on how to build a team, the Texas Rangers. Yes they have a highly rated farm system, but they also built it up while spending money on the major league team, including big FA signings in Adrian Beltre and Yu Darvish. When they missed out on Zach Greinke and Prince Fielder, they didn't just sit back and say "Oh well, we gave it a shot" like the Cubs have done and the idiots slurp up, they went out and got Yu Darvish and Lance Berkman.

Dont want to play "semantics police"......but can I add Joe Nathan's 2 year 14.5 million dollar deal to replace Neftali Feliz, who was agreed upon to switch to the rotation? How about AJ Pierzynski's 1 year 7.5 million dollar deal to replace Napoli?

Not that I want to ruin any slurping agendas or anything......totally not my intention

:fap:

 

[KBisBack!]

u.

you continue to ignore that i did mention it would take more then 2 yrs to go the route they decided to take..

The route they are going has shown historically to take at least 10 years. You have said in the near future.

When you agree that the facts show it will be longer than the near future we can move on.

that just goes to show how your either ignorant towards what theyve accomplished so far or just on here to piss and moan cause you have nothing better to do.
to think they were in a better position those 2 yrs of having end of the road veterans with no system to turn too to replace them and losing 90 games both yrs
was being being better then having an improved system now and younger core major league players establishing themselves is being an idiot..

Please go position by position on the major league roster and point out how they are better now than 2010.

I'll even start.

LF - Soriano. Same
CF - The Marlon Byrd of 2010 was pretty equal to David DeJesus. Same.
RF - Fukudome of 2010 pretty equal to Scheirholtz.
3B - Ramirez vs Valbuena. Huge advantage to ARam.
SS - Castro. Castro has regressed. His OBP and OPS last year were the lowest of his first three years and his numbers so far this year are even worse.
2B - Theriot vs Barney. They both suck but at least Theriot provided even minor offense and a few steals. Barney is another pitcher in the order.
1B - Lee vs Rizzo. I'll give a slight advantage to Rizzo to appease everyone.
C - Soto vs Castillo. Push. Soto was better defensively (not great but still better) and Castillo hits for a better average but no power at all.

SP - Dempster vs Shark. Pretty even. Shark has more upside, but hasn't reached it yet. Dempster was super, super solid for this team. Push
SP - Zambrano vs Garza. Even though Garza has yet to pitch, he is the #2 starter, if not the #1 on this team. Zambrano is not appreciated enough for his actual performance. Push again.
SP - Lilly/Gorzellany vs Wood. Wood has surpassed anyone's expectations this year. IF he continues to pitch like he has, this would be an upgrade but there is a pretty good chance this ends up being a push also.
SP - Wells vs Jackson. Big downgrade for many reasons.
SP - Silva vs Feldman. Feldman has been good his last couple starts but is still a career 4.68 ERA. Chances are that he'll end up being that pitcher much, much more often than the pitcher the last four shots. Push right now and seeing as he is on a one year deal he isn't a part of the core.

Bullpen - Both were/are bad. Push.

So the team has thrown away two entire seasons with at best no improvement to the major league team and only a marginal improvement to the minor league system. Baseball America had the Cubs minors ranked 15th in 2010 and 12th this year. The messiah Keith Law had the Cubs at 7th in 2010 and 5th this year.

Meanwhile in that same time the Cardinals have improved the minor league system from a bottom 10 farm system to a top five farm system while winning a World Series and losing a Game 7 of the NLCS while playing in a much smaller market with less resources.

But somehow I am supposed to be happy with the results because Ricketts and the #TheoSpankfest have promised us it is going to be better at some changing point in the future??

 

[KBisBack!]

Oh, I am so sorry for pointing out your hypocrisy, oh great and wonderful KB.

I would like for you to point out where I have EVER said that a 100 loss season is acceptable? Won't find it there buddy.

As for your question as to naming teams that have thrown away multiple seasons to get sustained success, you likely won't find any. Why? Because teams are not just out there TRYING to throw away seasons. The Cubs were not a 100 loss team last year until the trade deadline. At that point, when it was obvious that they were not going to compete, they traded away the guys that they could get something of a good/decent return for. No way that they would have been a 100 loss team if they would have kept Malholm and Dempster.

I have an idea, how about you go start yet another thread to ***** about the same stuff that you do in EVERY other thread?

Blah blah blah.

A lot of words and nothing intelligent added.

You are one of the apologists that claim that everything the #TheoSpankfest is doing is great.

That includes a 100 loss season which you defend as ok because it is part of the great process.

So if the Cubs had kept Dempster and Maholm and only lost 95 games instead of 101 that would be different? You are one of the morons who claim there is no difference between losing 100 games and being a .500 team.

Now suddenly losing 95 games is a huge improvement over 101???

You have added nothing of value to the discussion.

Please provide the facts on the many other teams that are doing what the Cubs are trying to do that have been successful in the short time frame the Cubs are promising.

You have been asked to provide this information on several occasions now, but have done nothing at all.

Step up to the plate big boy.

 

[KBisBack!]

Dont want to play "semantics police"......but can I add Joe Nathan's 2 year 14.5 million dollar deal to replace Neftali Feliz, who was agreed upon to switch to the rotation? How about AJ Pierzynski's 1 year 7.5 million dollar deal to replace Napoli?

Not that I want to ruin any slurping agendas or anything......totally not my intention

:fap:

Yes you may add that to the list of moves the Rangers made to remain a top, competitive team instead of doing nothing and saying "well, there was nothing we could do" and having idiots believe it.

 

[Franko725]

Blah blah blah.

A lot of words and nothing intelligent added.

You are one of the apologists that claim that everything the #TheoSpankfest is doing is great.

That includes a 100 loss season which you defend as ok because it is part of the great process.

So if the Cubs had kept Dempster and Maholm and only lost 95 games instead of 101 that would be different? You are one of the morons who claim there is no difference between losing 100 games and being a .500 team.

Now suddenly losing 95 games is a huge improvement over 101???

You have added nothing of value to the discussion.

Please provide the facts on the many other teams that are doing what the Cubs are trying to do has been successful.

You have been asked to provide this information on several occasions now, but have done nothing at all.

Step up to the plate big boy.

Do you even read what you post?

Again, SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE SAID 100 LOSSES IS OKAY? The answer is no where genius.

You have said that you want to see progress. How is more wins not progress? Think you have said that at least winning more games would put this team closer to being competitive. Keep talking out both sides of your mouth.

I stated in my previous comments that teams are not just out there trying to throw away seasons. The Cubs are making efforts to get better, you might not like some of the efforts, but they are there. I will again point out that you go back to the Giants signing Zito as effort. The Cubs signing Jackson is also effort towards making the team better. Jackson has not panned out so far, but it is none the less effort. Fujikawa has been pretty damn good since coming back from injury...haven't noticed you talking about that. You might not like them trading for Rizzo, but he is playing pretty damn well and is a much more team friendly deal than Fielder would have been. Oh, and Fielder would be well past his prime by the time this team is ready to contend.

I will state again, I am not happy about the team not being contenders this season or last. Unless Ricketts was willing to spend 200 million, they weren't going to though.

 

[KBisBack!]

You have said that you want to see progress. How is more wins not progress? Think you have said that at least winning more games would put this team closer to being competitive. Keep talking out both sides of your mouth.

And how has there been more wins?

Is the season over?

No??

Glad we cleared that up.

I stated in my previous comments that teams are not just out there trying to throw away seasons. The Cubs are making efforts to get better, you might not like some of the efforts, but they are there. I will again point out that you go back to the Giants signing Zito as effort. The Cubs signing Jackson is also effort towards making the team better.

And I will state that if you really think Edwin Jackson was equal to the Barry Zito signing you are an idiot. Zito was a former Cy Young pitcher and legitimate top of the rotation starter the Giants thought they were signing. Jackson was a journeyman, middle of the rotation starter at best.

Not even in the same ballpark. But you keep wishing they are equal.

Oh, and Fielder would be well past his prime by the time this team is ready to contend.

At the factual evidence I have provided that shows that teams trying to do what the Cubs are doing take at least a decade to succeed at, Rizzo will also be well past his prime by the time this team is ready to contend.

Only we will have more years of crappy baseball in between. Oh joy.

I will state again, I am not happy about the team not being contenders this season or last. Unless Ricketts was willing to spend 200 million, they weren't going to though.

Bullshit.

The Cubs could have kept the payroll realistic and well under $200M and fielded a much better, if not competitive ball team.

Once again, please be a big boy and address the main topic of the thread or shut up.

 

[Franko725]

And how has there been more wins?

Is the season over?

No??

Glad we cleared that up.



And I will state that if you really think Edwin Jackson was equal to the Barry Zito signing you are an idiot. Zito was a former Cy Young pitcher and legitimate top of the rotation starter the Giants thought they were signing. Jackson was a journeyman, middle of the rotation starter at best.

Not even in the same ballpark. But you keep wishing they are equal.



At the factual evidence I have provided that shows that teams trying to do what the Cubs are doing take at least a decade to succeed at, Rizzo will also be well past his prime by the time this team is ready to contend.

Only we will have more years of crappy baseball in between. Oh joy.



Bullshit.

The Cubs could have kept the payroll realistic and well under $200M and fielded a much better, if not competitive ball team.

Once again, please be a big boy and address the main topic of the thread or shut up.

I was referring to last years team that would have won more games if they hadn't traded away two quality pitchers. You stated that they may have only lost 95 games. That would be better than 101, would it not?

Rizzo is 23. If the Cubs are not contending by the time he is 33, something will be very wrong.

Tell me to shut up some more there buddy. Or call me an idiot. Or whatever the hell else you want. I however will not be told to get back on point by the worst offender in this forum for derailing a thread with his constant complaining about the same stuff in every thread. I was really hopeful that having new blood in this forum would make it worthwhile, then I read some of the crap that you and your buddies post...what a disappointment.

 

[patg006]

Rizzo is 23. If the Cubs are not contending by the time he is 33, something will be very wrong.

Tell me to shut up some more there buddy. Or call me an idiot.

If the Cubs are not contending by the time he is 25, something will be very wrong.....

This isnt a god damn small market team. This is the chicago cubs.

Idiot

 

[Franko725]

If the Cubs are not contending by the time he is 25, something will be very wrong.....

This isnt a god damn small market team. This is the chicago cubs.

Idiot

I was responding to the fact that KB was saying that he would be past his prime by the time that they started to contend.

Please read everything before you make yourself look stupid.

Oh, and your buddy KB says you cannot talk about big market/small market stuff.

 

[Chris J]

Did they have to sit through a 100 loss season?

No??

Did they have to sit through a second season that looks like it will be at least a 95 loss season right after the 100 loss season??

No??

Nice try, but not even close.

My question is why the **** are you in the Cubs forum. It looks like your a Royals fan? GTFO

 

[patg006]

I was responding to the fact that KB was saying that he would be past his prime by the time that they started to contend.

Please read everything before you make yourself look stupid.

Oh, and your buddy KB says you cannot talk about big market/small market stuff.

Based on the current pace of "draft only, ignore signing free agents to fill holes the lottery tickets cant fill." If we went at that pace, this team wouldnt be contending till hes 33. And we'd be so lucky.

I have no problem reading, you're the one who doesnt question what he reads......you've probably slurped and defended command central's every move.....not question why they did or didnt chase/trade/pick/release whoever.

Of course, your overall baseball knowledge is staggeringly disappointing.

Nickel's worth of advice. Think before you speak (or post, you seem the type to nitpick semantics.)

Idiot.

 

[patg006]

My question is why the **** are you in the Cubs forum. It looks like your a Royals fan? GTFO

Oh jesus, the ringleader is back on his soapbox with his internet tough guy routine.....

 

[KBisBack!]

I was referring to last years team that would have won more games if they hadn't traded away two quality pitchers. You stated that they may have only lost 95 games. That would be better than 101, would it not?

If this, but that, and this, blah blah blah.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Rizzo is 23. If the Cubs are not contending by the time he is 33, something will be very wrong.

The FACTS provided show realistically that is how long it will take.

Tell me to shut up some more there buddy. Or call me an idiot. Or whatever the hell else you want. I however will not be told to get back on point by the worst offender in this forum for derailing a thread with his constant complaining about the same stuff in every thread. I was really hopeful that having new blood in this forum would make it worthwhile, then I read some of the crap that you and your buddies post...what a disappointment.

Translation.....

I don't have an answer to the question but I will just whine and cry some more to try and deflect from the fact that I have no answer.

Once again, step up to the plate big boy or admit you are not equal to the task.

 

[KBisBack!]

My question is why the **** are you in the Cubs forum. It looks like your a Royals fan? GTFO

You are an idiot.

My question to you is, if indeed I am a Royals fan, how dumb does that make you look that I know more about what is going on with the team than you do?

Like the rest of the crybaby slurpers, answer the question poised at the start of the thread or shut up.

 

[Franko725]

Based on the current pace of "draft only, ignore signing free agents to fill holes the lottery tickets cant fill." If we went at that pace, this team wouldnt be contending till hes 33. And we'd be so lucky.

I have no problem reading, you're the one who doesnt question what he reads......you've probably slurped and defended command central's every move.....not question why they did or didnt chase/trade/pick/release whoever.

Of course, your overall baseball knowledge is staggeringly disappointing.

Nickel's worth of advice. Think before you speak (or post, you seem the type to nitpick semantics.)

Idiot.

I never said that the Cubs should not be competing for a playoff spot within a few years. Of course, you guys never point out where I said that 100 losses was okay last year either.

I have been adamant that Soriano needs to go. But, KB still thinks that he is the biggest offensive threat on the team this year, because of last season and all. Marmol should have been gone years ago, but Hendry would not part with him when he was actually worth a damn. None of us will ever know for sure why he was not traded for Haren last season. All that we can go off of is that they were afraid of the medicals, since that was what was reported. Might there have been a different reason? Of course, but we will never know. Only time will tell if the Cubs were right, or if the Nats were. Would I love to see an upgrade at third base? Of course, but Valbuena hasn't exactly been terrible. The only position player that is really struggling offensively right now is Barney. I will give him time to get back from his DL stint completely before passing judgement there though. It is not like he is terrible in the field either.

 

[KBisBack!]

Based on the current pace of "draft only, ignore signing free agents to fill holes the lottery tickets cant fill." If we went at that pace, this team wouldnt be contending till hes 33. And we'd be so lucky.

I have no problem reading, you're the one who doesnt question what he reads......you've probably slurped and defended command central's every move.....not question why they did or didnt chase/trade/pick/release whoever.

Of course, your overall baseball knowledge is staggeringly disappointing.

Nickel's worth of advice. Think before you speak (or post, you seem the type to nitpick semantics.)

Idiot.

pat, sorry you are being completely unrealistic actually looking at the historical facts.

You are supposed to just blindly believe everything that is spoon fed to you and throw a temper tantrum at those whose use actual facts and historical data to support that what is being promised is completely unrealistic.

I mean fairy tales come true all the time don't they?