A couple throw away seasons turning into sustained long term success...........

[KBisBack!]

I see you want to leave out facts that don't fit your agenda. Because until you give me a case of a front office able to accomplish a postseason run under these conditions it is as much of a fairtale as throwing away multiple seasons for sustained success.

Nothing has been left out. I am looking at all the factors, ownership and management. You want to apologize away shitty management.

You are dumb.

Part of the throwing away multiple seasons is the fact that ownership has gouged the team of payroll.

But clearly you are only simpleminded enough to focus on only one thing at a time.

Ok Tarzan, I'll try and make it as simple as I can for you.

Ownership, bad.

Management, bad.

Both, bad.

 

[dabynsky]

Nothing has been left out. I am looking at all the factors, ownership and management. You want to apologize away shitty management.

You are dumb.

Part of the throwing away multiple seasons is the fact that ownership has gouged the team of payroll.

But clearly you are only simpleminded enough to focus on only one thing at a time.

Ok Tarzan, I'll try and make it as simple as I can for you.

Ownership, bad.

Management, bad.

Both, bad.

But that is the part that you keep simplifying. What team has succeeded in these situations? If the answer is none than how can you answer that management is bad definitively?

 

[The Bandit]

Nothing has been left out. I am looking at all the factors, ownership and management. You want to apologize away shitty management.

You are dumb.

Part of the throwing away multiple seasons is the fact that ownership has gouged the team of payroll.

But clearly you are only simpleminded enough to focus on only one thing at a time.

Ok Tarzan, I'll try and make it as simple as I can for you.

Ownership, bad.

Management, bad.

Both, bad.

Dumb.

 

[KBisBack!]

But that is the part that you keep simplifying. What team has succeeded in these situations? If the answer is none than how can you answer that management is bad definitively?

Easy.

Most of the roster moves they have made have not improved the team.

The have turned over about 75% of the roster and even though payroll has been cut, they had more to spend this offseason for the 2013 season than the total payroll of 2 maybe 3 major league teams.

They have been far from 'handcuffed'. Not given the full resources they should be allowed? No question. Hindered to the point of making it impossible to improve the major league team? Not a chance.

 

[dabynsky]

Easy.

Most of the roster moves they have made have not improved the team.

The have turned over about 75% of the roster and even though payroll has been cut, they had more to spend this offseason for the 2013 season than the total payroll of 2 maybe 3 major league teams.

They have been far from 'handcuffed'. Not given the full resources they should be allowed? No question. Hindered to the point of making it impossible to improve the major league team? Not a chance.

But then if it isn't impossible why hasn't any other team done it?

 

[KBisBack!]

But then if it isn't impossible why hasn't any other team done it?

You really think no team in the history of baseball has had a minor league system with no players ready to step in, cut payroll and still improved?

Really??

The White Sox cut about $20M off payroll from 2011 to 2012 and won six more games

The Twins cut about $16M off payroll during the same time and won three more games.

The Orioles cut about $5M off payroll and won 24 more games.

Oakland cut about $11M off payroll and won 20 more games and fucking spare me the Cespedes BS. They went out an BOUGHT him.

Those are just examples from 2011 to 2012.

And the Cubs had a piece from their system that they were able to plug into the rotation last year in Shark. So quite the whining that they were given nothing in the system they could use to improve the major league team. They had Andrew Cashner in the system who was used to bring in Rizzo that everyone shouts has dramatically improved the organization.

 

[Boobaby1]

I just got one question, Theo and them get passes because of the front office restricting money? Which I agree with mostly. Not totally, but mostly. Then why does everyone who blames Hendry for this team not give him a pass when he had major restrictions on spending in the draft? Are they not the same concept? Ricketts is being cheap. Bottom line. You can say this and that but he is. Will he always? I hope not or the Cubs are in trouble. To be truthful him and his family seem like douches. They seem slimey especially the younger brother. I dont want to here renovations because the point of renovations is for them to make oodles of money on top of it. Ricketts could spend more than he is. We all know it. Lets just hope he doesnt continue the trend or it will take the Cubs 10 years to compete. I think Garza is going to be a telling sign on how Ricketts decides to go about it. I really believe Theo and them would rather lock him down, but it ultimately comes down to Ricketts pocketbook. They dont spend this off season then it isnt a good sign. No matter how you want to twist it.

They could probably sign Cano (backloaded), re-sign Garza and Schierholtz to short contracts, and payroll would still have to increase by about 3-5 million before Samardzija's Arb case.

The losses that would roughly equal out these signings would be Marmol (10 mil), DeJesus (5 mil after buyout), Feldman (6 mil), Baker (5.5 mil), Stewart (2 mil), and Camp (1.5 mil).

Trying to put it in perspective. Feel free to add something I may have missed because this is off the top of my head.

 

[Boobaby1]

Would Cano, Beltran, Garza, Schierholtz and a little relief help get them competitive next year? Just asking.

 

[The Bandit]

Would Cano, Beltran, Garza, and Schierholtz get them competitive next year? Just asking.

hmmm Lineup of

Castro
Shierholtz
Rizzo
Cano
Beltran
Soriano
Castillo
Barney
Pitcher...

solid lineup but damn is it slow... I'd rather Dejesus over Shierholtz just so we have some sort of base running on the team. But that's a pretty solid lineup right there.

 

[SilenceS]

Would Cano, Beltran, Garza, Schierholtz and a little relief help get them competitive next year? Just asking.

Yes and they would not need nate the great. I also believe Shark will not go to arbitration. I think they will sign him and forgo arbitration. I also believe it hasnt happened yet because they were trying to low ball him. Shark declined and is looking for another good season so they have to pay him more.

 

[SilenceS]

hmmm Lineup of

Castro
Shierholtz
Rizzo
Cano
Beltran
Soriano
Castillo
Barney
Pitcher...

solid lineup but damn is it slow... I'd rather Dejesus over Shierholtz just so we have some sort of base running on the team. But that's a pretty solid lineup right there.

If Cano would move to third, which I highly doubt, Barney will lose his job to either Watkins or Valbuena. But, I truly believe Barney will either be packaged with DeJesus or a pitcher to a team at the deadline.

 

[SilenceS]

Also, I dont want Beltran. Two OF 37 plus years old is asking for injuries. I still believe Brett Jackson comes up for a shot. He has cut his k rate down.

 

[Boobaby1]

Also, I dont want Beltran. Two OF 37 plus years old is asking for injuries. I still believe Brett Jackson comes up for a shot. He has cut his k rate down.

Alright. How about Choo then? Lot's of O's.

Castro, Rizzo, Castillo, Choo, Cano, Soriano....

BTW, it is make or break with Jackson as you have said.

 

[SilenceS]

Would love Choo cause I dont think he would command a lot of years. Even with his tremendous year so far, he shold be able to be had for 3 or 4 years. N yes, it is make or break for Jackson. Also, Theo told Stewart that Vitters is the third baseman of the future for the Cubs which I am not sure if he was blowing smoke or really believes that. I would venture to guess the first option.

 

[chibears55]

If Cano would move to third, which I highly doubt, Barney will lose his job to either Watkins or Valbuena.

i think if cano is willing to move to 3B he prob. will get more offers.. i think the cubs would be willing to offer 7-10 yrs if he moves to 3B
if not, i doubt the cubs make a strong push yrs wise for him ..

i think the reds try to reup with choo before season ends..
i think going after OF FAs this offseason is going to depend alot on what happens with brett jackson, szczur, and ja-hoon ha and if their able to move soriano

 

[CSF77]

hmmm Lineup of

Castro
Shierholtz
Rizzo
Cano
Beltran
Soriano
Castillo
Barney
Pitcher...

solid lineup but damn is it slow... I'd rather Dejesus over Shierholtz just so we have some sort of base running on the team. But that's a pretty solid lineup right there.

Wouldn't happen.

What I expect from them:
(not the line up just by position)

LF: Soriano
CF: Jackson
RF: Schierholtz/Hairston
3B: Vitters
SS: Castro
2B: Valbuena
1B: Rizzo
C: Castillo

I fully expect them to keep going cheap.

Now if they do the unexpected (spend) well it will be unexpected.

 

[dabynsky]

You really think no team in the history of baseball has had a minor league system with no players ready to step in, cut payroll and still improved?

Really??

The White Sox cut about $20M off payroll from 2011 to 2012 and won six more games

The Twins cut about $16M off payroll during the same time and won three more games.

The Orioles cut about $5M off payroll and won 24 more games.

Oakland cut about $11M off payroll and won 20 more games and fucking spare me the Cespedes BS. They went out an BOUGHT him.

Those are just examples from 2011 to 2012.

And the Cubs had a piece from their system that they were able to plug into the rotation last year in Shark. So quite the whining that they were given nothing in the system they could use to improve the major league team. They had Andrew Cashner in the system who was used to bring in Rizzo that everyone shouts has dramatically improved the organization.

My god your reading comprehension sucks. I don't want to just improve. The measure of success is the playoffs. You've said that before in this thread. What team has made the postseason given this scenario?

Baltimore cut payroll by 2 million from 2011 to 2012, but that was still over 10 million dollars more than the start of their two crappy years in 2010 and over 17 million more than 2009.

Oakland has been much better team period. They were .500 in 2010. They had a better roster at the start. What Gio Gonzalez did Theo Epstein have to trade for four pieces, two of which made the big leagues in 2012? What Trevor Cahill did Theo Epstein have to trade for another key member of the pitching staff? What AJ Griffin did they have to call up when they suffered injuries in their pitching staff and start a postseason game? Or call up a player that ended up fifth on the team in homeruns despite only playing 60 games? Or call up a catcher that allowed them to trade their struggling catcher for more prospects?

All the other examples are really the fucking point. Yes you can improve the roster and get marginal increases, but the odds of making the postseason given all the factors faced the front office are about the same as throwing away multiple seasons for sustained success.

 

[KBisBack!]

My god your reading comprehension sucks. I don't want to just improve. The measure of success is the playoffs. You've said that before in this thread. What team has made the postseason given this scenario?

My God you are a freaking clown.

You asked specifically what teams have cut payroll and improved, I provide you the list and then you whine that my reading comprehension sucks when I provide you the list of teams that improved under your scenario??

And even then, two of the teams I listed MADE THE PLAYOFFS!

You are a joke.

I tell you that I don't care that the team has cut payroll, that I consider that an equal part of the problem but you keep whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining about the payroll being cut, so I get tired of it and show you the facts on teams that have cut payroll and still improved.

So you change your story.

"Well now that KB proved me wrong yet again, I really didn't mean just improvement, I meant that the teams should make the playoffs, nevermind that two of the teams listed actually did make the playoffs."

 

[kchicub08]

Willrust,

the key words are "can go".

Not "will go".... No guarantees that most here just assume the Cubs will be great in 2-5 years.

 

[CherokeeReds]

But the #TheoSpankfest has repeatedly shown the lack of intelligence to understand that focusing on building both the major league team and the farm system at the same time is much more likely to end up being successful than focusing solely on either one.

So it should be no surprise that they are unable to grasp the concept that BOTH the ownership and new management team have blame for the shitfest of baseball we have been treated to the last now two seasons.

LMFAO.

Why don't you do us all a favor and call the Cubs front office and tell them this shit instead of us?