[A] Roberto Luongo: Chicago's definitely one of them

[Ton]

Yes he only has 9 years left.



And no way is Lou HHOF yet. Not a chance. May he get there, who knows. Winning a Cup would solidify it.

Do you guys know how to count? 10 years left on his deal.

 

[the canadian dream]

I'd say he's been better than that, he's going into the Hall of Fame when he's done.

Mike Vernons not even in the Hall Of Fame and his numbers are pretty good for a guy playing in the "offensive era" which you and others like to talk about as a judgment factor. And he played a veeeery long career. Lou is far from Hall Of Fame talk yet...and I do emphasize YET...not saying he won't get in but he has years of playing yet to get through. No one knows what will happen. That shitty groin and knee of his might end his career short..he may go on to be a multiple Vezina winner...multiple cups. Who knows? But as of right now he isn't a Hall Of Famer.



If he stays healthy he is going to be in the competing with Belfour for 3rd on the wins list. That would more than likely get him in the Hall alone..which would be fair in my opinion.



My prediction is at career end he is going to fall into the category that Curtis Joseph falls in. Good career numbers...lots of wins...helped some bad teams and played on some good ones...no championships. Won't get in. That's just my prediction..I don't think he is ever going to lift a cup. His olympic gold might help him though...voters like that Olympic gold. I also do think his career will be shortened a bit due to his groin which I believe is an ongoing problem bound to get worse in the next few years.



And I am not saying championships should be the decisive reason a player gets in or not...its simply how the Hall has voted in the past. Don't shoot the guy who bares witness to the trend. Although they do seem to be loosening up on that more which is good.

 

[PatrickShart]

Nhlnumbers.com had it end in 20-21...but it does go to 2022...so it is 10

12-13-6.71

13-14

14-15

15-16

16-17

17-18-6.71

18-19-3.3

19-20-1.6

20-21-1.0

21-22-guessing 1 mil?



If Belfour can go to 41...no reason Luongo can't. And if he retires before, they're off the hook. The last 4yrs...he's only making 7mil total.



Someone needs to explain why he only has 2-3 good years left at 33

 

[the canadian dream]

Do you guys know how to count? 10 years left on his deal.

It's ten on contract. He has about 4-5 as far as his groin and mental strength (or lack there of) holding up.



He's damaged goods and it's going to get him.

 

[PatrickShart]

Cujo ended with 51 shutouts, .906%, 454 wins

--3x all star



Luongo already has 60 shutouts, 339 wins and a .919%

-4x all star

-1 Jennings



He'll blow away his wins/shutouts. Still may win a Vezina, Jennings, Cup (depending where he goes)

 

[the canadian dream]

Someone needs to explain why he only has 2-3 good years left at 33

Explain to me what that bruise is on my moms leg



then explain to me why he has the capability to play until he is in his 40's? It's just a prediction game..no facts..no stats..nothing but prediction. I have seen enough from his groin issues since 08/09 to predict he won't last longer than 37 or so. And he doesn't and never has played like Belfour has in his crease protecting himself from being ran. If you look at the goalies who have had long long careers they have something in common...they like to hack the bone and send a message that if you try to get at me you're going to get a piece of lumber in your shin. Not that this is an incredible reason why he won't last as long but I bet it comes into play in the long run. His pads are too big also and he eats too much poutine in the offseason and doesn't train that hard.

 

[the canadian dream]

Jennings doesn't count for shit. Mine aswell put Schnieder in the Hall also. Don't even bring that stupid award up in any conversation as a striking point.



Otherwise...touche on the Joseph points..touche.



Shut outs aren't bonerific stats anymore in this league unless you get one playing for the Hawks.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Canadians suck at counting

 

[Larmer83]

Whether people like him or not...he's been a pretty good goalie in his career and there's no reason he can't play like Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour and be good until he's 40- which is 7 years away...not just 2-3

There are several reasons why Luongo will not play like Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour, and Roy until he's 40.



Those four are the players that bucked the trend of netminders that produced well beyond age 33(Luongo's current age). Those four were a lot of things... arrogant, alcohlic, confident are several things that come to mind. None of them were ever considered weak minded. Rightly or wrongly, 7ouongo has be labeled as a goalie that wilts at the most inopportune of times.



Then there's that contract. Luongo will get paid a shit ton of money over a shit ton of years whether he's a Stanley Cup champion or relegated to the ECHL. That has the potential to screw with the desire of even the most driven of athletes. I don't recall the big four having that type of term in contracts in the late stages of their careers.



More telling is the stats. Last season...



Luongo: 55 Games, 2.41 GAA, .919 SV%, 31 wins, 14 losses

Schneider: 33 Games, 1.96 GAA, .937 SV%, 20 wins, 8 losses



With the same team in front of them. The difference is compelling. But I guess one could point to Luong's previous season and look at it as an anomaly.



2010-11 Luongo: 60 Games, 2.11 GAA, .928 SV%, 38 wins, 15 losses



Problem with that is the actual reduction in goals scored in the western conference, and more specifically the Nothwest Division. Year-over year, goal scoring down 7% in the Western Conference and 7.9% in the Northwest.



His numbers were down substanially in a year the should have been better. Maybe he gets several more years of real production. Or longer. Or not.



Try selling that to an owner that spent $10 million on a goalie to play in Europe the past two years.

 

[the canadian dream]

Canadians suck at counting

At least we understand metric like 90% of the world.



Go screw something in with your shitty Phillips screws and leave us to the more dominant Robertson buuuuuudy.



Lou is going to shit the bed where ever he goes. Cheese curds and gravy style. He will get in the Hall Of Fame for being the greasiest ego ridden non Vezina winning twat burger ever. WAAAAAA I WANNA PWAY IN FWORIDA I DESEWRVE TO PWAY WHERE EVER I WANT TOO BWECAUSW IM SOOOO GWOOOD. LET ME HIDE AWAY BECAUSE I AM SCARED!! HIDE ME IN FLORIDA PWEASE MIKE GIWIS!!!



**** him.

 

[R K]

Do you guys know how to count? 10 years left on his deal.

I'm not including this upcoming season. LOL! and if you look you typed 12 when you first posted in the thread dipshit.

 

[the canadian dream]

oh by the way. Kiprusoff gets in the hall before Lou at this point. Wanna talk about an under-rated goalie who has indeed carried a team on his back for eons its him. Esp if getting your team to a game 7 cup is the kicker. Calgary is no city that goes light on their goalies either yet Kipper doesn't whine and I am sure if he were to be traded he would give his GM and owners a list bigger than one team he would be willing to play for.



Sorry I just can't get over the lack of teams Lou would play for. It rings of spoiled asshole to me. I can't get over it. Don't like when any players pull this shit off unless it's a damn legend.



Don't really think Dale thinks Lou is a huge upgrade either esp after last season. Theodore pretty much posted identical numbers as Lou and had a pretty damn good year (yah maybe he faced 77 shots less than Lou but thats not enough to downplay Joses season compared to Lous).



I know why Lou wants to go to Florida. Because every single fucking goalie who has ever played there posts solid numbers and plays pretty fucking good no matter how shitty they actually are. Not including the old farts who retired there. Goalies must know something about that Sunrise. Even Lou knows he is over-rated outside of that city.

 

[Variable]

Mike Vernons not even in the Hall Of Fame and his numbers are pretty good for a guy playing in the "offensive era" which you and others like to talk about as a judgment factor. And he played a veeeery long career. Lou is far from Hall Of Fame talk yet...and I do emphasize YET...not saying he won't get in but he has years of playing yet to get through. No one knows what will happen. That shitty groin and knee of his might end his career short..he may go on to be a multiple Vezina winner...multiple cups. Who knows? But as of right now he isn't a Hall Of Famer.



If he stays healthy he is going to be in the competing with Belfour for 3rd on the wins list. That would more than likely get him in the Hall alone..which would be fair in my opinion.



My prediction is at career end he is going to fall into the category that Curtis Joseph falls in. Good career numbers...lots of wins...helped some bad teams and played on some good ones...no championships. Won't get in. That's just my prediction..I don't think he is ever going to lift a cup. His olympic gold might help him though...voters like that Olympic gold. I also do think his career will be shortened a bit due to his groin which I believe is an ongoing problem bound to get worse in the next few years.



And I am not saying championships should be the decisive reason a player gets in or not...its simply how the Hall has voted in the past. Don't shoot the guy who bares witness to the trend. Although they do seem to be loosening up on that more which is good.

One day the people who call themselves the fans of the sport that they anoint as the "greatest team sport" will realize that being part of winning a Stanley Cup, especially for a goalie, has a lot more to do with opportunity than it does individual skill. You can be the greatest goalie at any given time in the game, and more often than not it'll mean jack shit unless you're on a competent/good enough team in front of you that can win it. How people, some people whose entire lives revolve around the game either in having played it professionally, coaching,etc, still do not understand something that simple is beyond me. The kind of people who put stock in goalie wins, I just....that logic is just baffling.



That you put up Mike Vernon as some sort of comparable to Luongo, even with accounting for the difference in eras, is an absolute joke. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Mike Vernon, for his entire career, faced an average of 25 shots per game. A lot of that during the high offensive era. He played on great defensive teams, much like Brodeur. And for most of those seasons, while facing those well below league average shots per game, he put up either barely league average save percentages or below league average save percentages. He is in no way comparable to Luongo who for a lot of his career played in the exact opposite type of situation and put up well above average numbers in spite of it. Luongo is one of the few who can play above his team's overall talent level. Vernon, not even close.



The difference you point out between them, the 2 Stanley Cups that Vernon was a part of, was due to the OPPORTUNITY he had with playing on that stacked Detroit dynasty of a team and Calgary's great defense and 2nd highest scoring team in the league that year. Dominik Hasek, who even people who would put Brodeur above him somehow, is seen as one of if not the best goalie of all time, would have NEVER won a Cup if he didn't join those powerhouse Detroit teams in the twilight of his NHL career. Would him not winning a Cup be seen as a detriment or negative in his skill or talent? No way. Nothing would have or should have changed in the discussion of how good he was, he just never had the chance that guys like Osgood had, Vernon had, Brodeur had,etc year in, year out. He didn't have those opportunities UNTIL he joined one of those teams.

 

[the canadian dream]

I am speaking for how the voters in the hall chose not fans. there is a huge difference. right or wrong your beef is with the hall voters so direct them there.



dont get pissy at me for stating the trend i and no other fan has control over.



no doubt in my mind the entire game is based on team work and team dynamics. you are preaching to the choir here.



Vancouver was the highest scoring team in the reg season when they went to the cup final in 2011 whats your point about Vernon being on good teams? Do those offensive teams have nothing to do with Lous winning or success that year? They have been in the top 5 of the league in scoring for 3 years now. So when we look at a stat like wins for a goalie which is one thats being thrown out there as a reason why Lou should be in the hall how much do we know is about him and how much about the team? We don't. I understand fully what individual criteria should be met to be elected to the hall of fame and am one who actually want to discuss skill sets and technical aspects with others. Most don't want to go down that path.



P.S. I remember the year Vernon won the cup with Calgary he was pretty good on his own that run. He was also pretty damn good in 1997 in so much the Conn Smyth was deservingly his..which he received. Was a great team though no doubts about it. Just as the Canucks teams Lou has played on have been good..and they have been fucking good despite the hate for them. You don't just win president trophies and constantly make the playoffs because of a weak division. Nor do players win scoring titles from it. These Canuck teams have been good teams too. Lou has been a part of that. No where have I ever said he hasn't been one of the factors of their success. Unlike some who I have heard say he is the only reason.



No goalie is perfect they all have or have had holes in their games or weak spots. Lou is not immune and he has a thwack load of technical problems in his game (and I laugh so hard when people say he doesn't have mental flaws..he himself has admirably admitted to it a few times). Frankly he like many goalies now has been saved by his large frame and padding which counters or hides a lot of his flaws...but this is the game now and I accept it for what it is. Would have been great if guys like Vernon had that luxury of bigger pads and if the league were looking more at butterfly big body positioning goalies because I can guarantee through discussing technical sides Vernon had a lot less flaws to his game than Lou does when you take away those aspects...hands down.



if I had my way about Hall voting half of the players in there right now wouldn't have my vote. I would vote on technical and skill for the individual first then go down the line and trophies would probably be the last criteria. That's NOT how the hall votes though...I don't agree with it either but THAT IS THE WAY IT IS. I, you and the rest of this board have no powers in changing it. The Hall is an old boys club in which we don't belong or have a say.

 

[PatrickShart]

Explain to me what that bruise is on my moms leg



then explain to me why he has the capability to play until he is in his 40's? It's just a prediction game..no facts..no stats..nothing but prediction. I have seen enough from his groin issues since 08/09 to predict he won't last longer than 37 or so. And he doesn't and never has played like Belfour has in his crease protecting himself from being ran. If you look at the goalies who have had long long careers they have something in common...they like to hack the bone and send a message that if you try to get at me you're going to get a piece of lumber in your shin. Not that this is an incredible reason why he won't last as long but I bet it comes into play in the long run. His pads are too big also and he eats too much poutine in the offseason and doesn't train that hard.

He had 1 groin injury (missed 24 games) in 2008-09 season (where he still played 54gms that year)..and has avg 61gms a year in the last 3 since that one time groin injury. Belfour had more back/groin injuries through his whole career than Luongo has.



Players now a days...if talented/take care of themselves...can play until 40. Will he be as good at 40 as he is at 33? Probably not..but the meat of his contract is done at 39. I'd be perfectly happy with knowing he can play 60-65gms for the next 5-6 years..



But Gillis isn't trading with CHI...so the Hawks are stuck with Crawford and blaming the D, Coaching, sophmore slump, the sun in his eyes..or whatever reason he's struggles again.

 

[R K]

That last line is hilarious. I've always been a Crawford supporter. From the first time he was passed over. That said, he scares me.

 

[Rex]

Cujo ended with 51 shutouts, .906%, 454 wins

--3x all star



Luongo already has 60 shutouts, 339 wins and a .919%

-4x all star

-1 Jennings



He'll blow away his wins/shutouts. Still may win a Vezina, Jennings, Cup (depending where he goes)

why are you comparing him to Cujo? If you're arguing him getting into the HHOF, shouldn't you be comparing him to somebody who is in the HHOF?

 

[PatrickShart]

TCD compared him to Cujo....



I don't think I ever said anything about Luongo to the Hall



I've just said he can be a good goalie for the next 5-6 years...the heart of his contract. There's no reason he can't. I think he has more than 2-3 years left as some as said.

 

[Rex]

yes, I just noticed that now. Carry on.

 

[Rex]

but the Jennings is stupid to bring up though. Roman Turek has a fucking Jennings trophy.