Alfonso Soriano's Endless Contract

[Rice Cube]

Yeah, it's more appropriate to say that Soriano produced more runs on offense and saved more runs on defense than he gave up, but that doesn't make him a good defender

 

[Rice Cube]

baseballref doesn't even have him in the Top 10 for the NL.

2007 National League Awards, All-Stars, & More Leaders - Baseball-Reference.com

2007 Major League Baseball Awards, All-Stars, & More Leaders - Baseball-Reference.com

Yeah, I said he wasn't even in the top 20 for WAR by B-Ref. FanGraphs uses UZR and that's why the WAR totals are so wonky, but B-Ref uses DRS.

 

[FirstTimer]

Also LOL at Soriano's wOBA that season(according to fangraphs) being lower than Edgar Renteria, Jack Cust, and Brad Hawpe.

wRC. Not even on the first page of that list! Dmitri Young>Fonzi.

Jesus, by those two stats alone you could argue A-Ram was better that season.

 

[poodski]

Yeah, it's more appropriate to say that Soriano produced more runs on offense and saved more runs on defense than he gave up, but that doesn't make him a good defender

It makes him an above average lf'er which is all anyone has ever said.

He fields like a paraplegic but most lf'ers field like drunken ones.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, I said he wasn't even in the top 20 for WAR by B-Ref. FanGraphs uses UZR and that's why the WAR totals are so wonky, but B-Ref uses DRS.

Yeah. But either way, one stat doesn't make a season. He's Top 10 in WAR almost strictly because UZR tells us he's a good fielder..which is incorrect . But whatever......even if I conceded Sori was Top 10 in that catagory with no argument it goes back to using ONE stat to evaluate something is Special person.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Odd.

I thought pitchers qualified as "players"

LOL at claiming I find "loop holes".

Pitchers count as players. Why would they NOT be counted when compiling a list of the best players in baseball for a given year?

Here's a list of just position players I'd put over Soriano that season:

I stopped looking because I got bored finding better players and didn't feel the need to look into pitchers.

No real order:
Pujols
A Rod
Magglio
Miggy
Matt Holliday
Wright
Utley
Chipper Jones
Granderson
Rollins
Sizemore
Hanley
David Ortiz
Carlos Pena
Ichiro
Braun
Fielder
Lowell
Dunn

That's around 19 right there. No pitchers.

Soriano wasn't even a top 20 player that season.

Let alone a Top 10,12, or 15 player.

I got bored and quit looking at that point. I'd love to see the reasoning for putting Soriano anywhere NEAR the top 10-15 for 2007.

So you're telling me that these players are better than Soriano because you say so? Okay, yeah, Poods was right, you're on the list.

Also, DEFENSE IS WHAT MAKES SORIANO BETTER THAN DUNN! DEFENSE YOU MORON NOT AVERAGE OR SB, DEFENSE

 

[nwfisch]

Also, DEFENSE IS WHAT MAKES SORIANO BETTER THAN DUNN! DEFENSE YOU MORON NOT AVERAGE OR SB, DEFENSE

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

So you're telling me that these players are better than Soriano because you say so? Okay, yeah, Poods was right, you're on the list.

Also, DEFENSE IS WHAT MAKES SORIANO BETTER THAN DUNN! DEFENSE YOU MORON NOT AVERAGE OR SB, DEFENSE

alfonso is a pretty bad defender...his fielding % is really low...people talk about how many errors the cubs commit...a good portion of those errors come from sori

dunn is not a great defender either...but i dont think sori has any significant advantage defensively wise over dunn

 

[nwfisch]

I'm pretty sure Dunn has stolen fewer bases than Soriano.

Dunn 59 SBs in career.
Soriano 262 SBs.

Therefore Soriano is a better player than Dunn. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[FirstTimer]

So you're telling me that these players are better than Soriano because you say so? Okay, yeah, Poods was right, you're on the list.

Also, DEFENSE IS WHAT MAKES SORIANO BETTER THAN DUNN! DEFENSE YOU MORON NOT AVERAGE OR SB, DEFENSE

LOL at Alfonso Soriano defenders using DEFENSE to elevate him.

Sori is a horeshit defender. I've covered this already.

You can put me on "the list" but all it shows is that you're tucking tail and running away because you got your head kicked in.

Me in these threads:

 

[Captain Obvious]

alfonso is a pretty bad defender...his fielding % is really low...people talk about how many errors the cubs commit...a good portion of those errors come from sori

dunn is not a great defender either...but i dont think sori has any significant advantage defensively wise over dunn

Soriano was a pretty awesome defender in LFer in 2007. He was REALLY good.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Soriano was a pretty awesome defender in LFer in 2007. He was REALLY good.

his fielding % as a LFer was below league average even in 07..

besides thats one freaking year versus the last 3+...his defense as a cubs player has been bad overall...i may concede 07 but i dont think he was a great defender by any standards

 

[nwfisch]

:lmao: at CO.

 

[Captain Obvious]

his fielding % as a LFer was below league average even in 07..

besides thats one freaking year versus the last 3+...his defense as a cubs player has been bad overall...i may concede 07 but i dont think he was a great defender by any standards

BAKER!!!!

Anyway, I'm only going to go through this once. Fielder percentage measures errors. Do errors alone make a fielder good or bad? The answer is no. If a player can get to 7 out of 10 balls and makes an error on 2 and another player can only make it to 3 out of 10, but doesn't make an error on either of those 3, who would you rather have? The guy that makes it to the 7 out of 10 balls, but the guy who makes it to 3 is going to have a better fielding percentage.

I'm not even going to comment on the other years because 07 is the year in question. I never said he was great because really no LFer is great. However, by LF standards, he was awesome. This is in comparison to other LFers in the league.

 

[Captain Obvious]

:lmao: at CO.

Great Rebuttal.

 

[nwfisch]

BAKER!!!!

Anyway, I'm only going to go through this once. Fielder percentage measures errors. Do errors alone make a fielder good or bad? The answer is no. If a player can get to 7 out of 10 balls and makes an error on 2 and another player can only make it to 3 out of 10, but doesn't make an error on either of those 3, who would you rather have? The guy that makes it to the 7 out of 10 balls, but the guy who makes it to 3 is going to have a better fielding percentage.

I'm not even going to comment on the other years because 07 is the year in question. I never said he was great because really no LFer is great. However, by LF standards, he was awesome. This is in comparison to other LFers in the league.

To me Soriano is the type of player would get to 3 balls, and would make an error on one.

Why did you say Soriano was in the top 10 baseball of 2007 if he wasn't great?

 

[nwfisch]

Great Rebuttal.

Thank you. It's better then whatever argument you had.

 

[Jntg4]

Great Rebuttal.

Great rebuttal yourself.

 

[Captain Obvious]

To me Soriano is the type of player would get to 3 balls, and would make an error on one.

Why did you say Soriano was in the top 10 baseball of 2007 if he wasn't great?

Soriano is the type of guy that would get to 6 and make an error on 1. Which compared to other LFers is still good.

Soriano isn't a great fielder because he plays LF. LFers suck. He was great because in comparison to other LFers he was really awesome. That's where he gets his value.

 

[FirstTimer]

BAKER!!!!

Do errors alone make a fielder good or bad? .

But ONE WAR metric in a pile of stats, including another WAR metric, that show the exact opposite of what the original WAR metric shows makes a player top 10?

You're such a hypocrit it's hilarious.