All Things Theo/Ricketts

[ChicagoBornCalifLiving]

If you want to get right down to it Nate Schierholtz is the best player on the Cubs. For all Cub players with over 150 at bats, Schierholtz leads in BA, SLG, OPS and is third in OBP behind Valbuena and Rizzo.

Oh, and as for Soriano and his 16 day run to home run glory, Rizzo YTD has 3 less home runs, more RBIs, less strike outs and 3 times as many walks while making $498,000 compared to Soriano’s $19 million. I can’t imagine who is giving the Cubs more bang for their buck. Heck, Schierholtz is only costing the Cubs $2.25 million compared to the 16 day home run king.

I like Soriano and never thought of him as an albatross but I did think it was a huge mistake for the Cubs to give him that long term deal knowing how old he would be at the end of it. The Cuds could do a lot worse than Sori in left but don’t take a snapshot of a 16 day period and proclaim him as being head and shoulders above Rizzo or any other Cub.

 

[chibears55]

Pretty much. Hendry had a terrible farm system, yet that farm system was used to acquire Rizzo.

im not a hendry basher, i like a lot of the moves he made.. But one player dont make a farm system

you look at the farm system overall, especially toward the end of hendry tenure there was very little talent through out the system
not totally blaming hendry for what it was, but it was lacking major league talent.

 

[patg006]

im not a hendry basher, i like a lot of the moves he made.. But one player dont make a farm system

you look at the farm system overall, especially toward the end of hendry tenure there was very little talent through out the system
not totally blaming hendry for what it was, but it was lacking major league talent.

Baez, Castro, Samarzdija, Wellinton Castillo, Russell, Sean Marshall. Dont say it was 'lacking major league talent.' Then he went and shipped busts-so-far Chris Archer and Hak Ju Lee for Matt Garza. In a perfect world on a small market team who needs the draft as a major part of its ML players--its not enough.

But to a self sustaining, large market team 5-6 years ago--Didnt need a 1B at the time, or a 3B. Didnt need a RF/2B, hell--didnt need a lot of positions to plan for like the cubs do now. Had a decent starting rotation, better than most when on and healthy; and the bullpen also wasnt shitty either.

Hendry didnt have a perfect farm system because he didnt need one with the team he had. Ignoring a consistent, winning team to focus on the farm system would have been met with lynch mobs and pitch forks. You dont focus on the farm when your window of contention is open and possibilities and probabilities are in your favor.

Hendry busted when he gambled on Milton Bradley over DeRosa, a move I understand but know fully it didnt work. It didnt help as Derrek Lee got older he turned into double, double-play, double-play every three at bats and Aramis was nowhere to be found at the plate in April, May, September, and October. The contending team did what every other's does--the window closed.

 

[SilenceS]

Soriano is streaky. Everyone knows this. When he is hot, he looks like the best player in the league. They is still no one in the Cubs farm ready to take his spot so whats the problem. He isn't blocking anyone and is still a top 3 hitter in our lineup. Im against trading him unless you actually get something worth while for him. No reason for him to play for another team on our tab when we don't have a better replacement.

 

[KBisBack!]

LMAO.. too bad he wasnt helping the cubs win in Apr, may, and June i guess better late then never, lets see what he does in Aug. and Sept after the trade deadline..

Too bad Castro and Rizzo haven't helped the Cubs win in Apr, May, June AND July.

All of Rizzo's HR's in April 'helped' the team to a 10-16 record. Most record for any month.

The two players that have helped the Cubs win the most games this year are Soriano and Garza.

The two players you are in a rush to get rid of in favor of more precious lottery tickets and pennies on the dollar.

One step forward, three steps back.

 

[chibears55]

Hendry didnt have a perfect farm system because he didnt need one with the team he had.

you started with a rant on how the system wasnt bad, but you say it here yourself that it wasnt perfect, so if it wasnt perfect and it wasnt horrible as some say, then guess what it was it was ok with very little talent as i said it had....

again you mention a small sample size for what it was overall through out his tenure here.. I didnt say hendry did a terrible job, just said overall his system wasnt all that good.. YES he did have a pretty good major league team filled mostly with players he traded for or signed as FA ( not from his system ), and yes he was able to unload some not so good talent to the pirates and rays who were unloading payroll players..
and great they had most of their positions filled BUT when it came time to be able to add a solid player / PITCHING that could put them over the top they couldnt get such player(s) because they didnt have high talented prospects in their system to nab such player(s).

again, im not totally blaming hendry for their system through out his tenure...

 

[KBisBack!]

you look at the farm system overall, especially toward the end of hendry tenure there was very little talent through out the system
not totally blaming hendry for what it was, but it was lacking major league talent.

Wrong.

Players still on the Cubs roster as a result of the farm system that was 'lacking major league talent.'

Matt Garza. Farm pieces used to acquire him.
Jeff Samardzija
Travis Wood. Hendry farm system player Sean Marshall used to acquire him.
James Russell
Blake Parker
Wellington Castillo
Darwin Barney
Starlin Castro
Anthony Rizzo. Hendry farm system player Andrew Cashner used to acquire him.

This is about 35% of the major league roster right there.

As well as the systems top prospect in Javier Baez and others like Alcantara and Vogelbach.

 

[KBisBack!]

YES he did have a pretty good major league team filled mostly with players he traded for

And how did he trade for many of those players??

By using minor league assets.

 

[patg006]

And how did he trade for many of those players??

By using minor league assets.

What a fucking concept!?

 

[patg006]

BUT when it came time to be able to add a solid player / PITCHING that could put them over the top they couldnt get such player(s) because they didnt have high talented prospects in their system to nab such player(s).

again, im not totally blaming hendry for their system through out his tenure...

With rotations of Z(in his not god awful days) Lilly, Rich Harden, Dempster, Rich Hill (farm product) Marquis, and bullpens full of Kerry Wood, Demp again, Bobby Howry, Marshall, Shark, Eyre, hell even Marmol they didnt need to dive and use "high talented prospects."

Hendry's tenural problem wasnt that "he couldnt find the guy in his farm system when he needed it!" That mentality would be a colossal wast of everybody's time. And I find it funny in 2010 when he needed a full time short stop Starlin Castro showed up. WHen he needed a pitcher when Harden got hurt Marshall was there. When Kerry Wood couldnt last longer than 3 innings he became a closer.

His problem was in October with 2 men on and nobody out, the cubs couldnt drive in runs. His problem was knee jerk reactions to losing to RHP in the playoffs so he bought a LH bat. WHen the cubs gave Ted Lilly a 3 run lead against the DBacks, ted lilly gave up a 3 run shot. Cubs needed luck, didnt get it. It happens.

 

[chibears55]

LMAO.. again i said over his tenure which ranged from 2002 to 2011..
you mention a handful of players, and a handful of deals which i gave him kudos for being able to make using some of the players from the system

again.. when you look at his full tenure ( 10 YRS ) as a GM with the chicago cubs, his minor league system overall was not that good.
yes, he hit on some decent players and was able to deal away some not so good players to get major league talent but when you look at the overall state of his minor league system through out his 10 years it was not that good.. not a total knock on jim hendry, just stating what it was over his period as GM.
not just my opinion, im sure you heard a lot of baseball people mention the same thing about the cubs farm system over that time frame...

being able to trade ok minor league players for major league players that teams like the pirates, and rays did a salary dump on, dont make your system good
just means hendry was able to pull off a very good trade which i gave him kudos for.

 

[patg006]

And you speak like the farm is the only way to win a world series when we have been saying that while yes, the farm is important; teams need to complete all three phases in trades, farms, and free agent signings.

You want more examples for farm system players? God you're desperate. How about:

Sean Marshall replaced Angel Guzman after injury in rotation in 06

Angel Guzman replaced Wade Miller after injury in rotation in 06 too.

Jeff Samarzdija replaced Kerry Wood in the bullpen in 08.

Darwin Barney replaced Mike Fontenot.

Mike Fontenot replaced Todd Walker.

Ryan Theriot replaced the struggling Caesar Iztaurus.

Kevin Hart replaced Chad Fox after Fox hurt his elbow for the 297th time.

Sean Gallagher replaced Jason Marquis for 5 starts after injury before being dealt to Oakland.

Randy Wells replaced the departed Marquis in 09.

Carlos Zambrano replaced Jason Bere in 03 in rotation.

Juan Cruz replaced Z's vacant bullpen spot in 03.

Kyle Farnsworth replaced Todd Van Poppel in bullpen in 02.

Todd Wellemeyer replaced Jeff Fassero in bullpen in 02.

Corey Patterson replaced Gary Matthews in CF in 02.

Francisco Beltran replaced Antonio Alfonseca in 04 prior to him being dealt for Nomar

Sergio Mitre replaced Mark Guthrie in bullpen in 04

Michael Wuertz replaced Mike Remlinger in bullpen in 05

The list goes on, I have more--but hopefully this proves my point. Still not enough for you? Or will you try 'thinking' before you post?

 

[chibears55]

And you speak like the farm is the only way to win a world series when we have been saying that while yes, the farm is important; teams need to complete all three phases in trades, farms, and free agent signings.

never mentioned anything about winning a world series with just using the farm... dont know where you get that from by me saying over hendry tenure the farm system overall was not that good :dunno:

You want more examples for farm system players? God you're desperate. How about:

there are a couple good ball players and a lot of not so good ball players on your short list..
still dont change the fact that OVERALL DURING HENDRY TENURE THE SYSTEM WAS NOT ALL THAT GOOD

your little list of players here looks more like a desperate move from you to try and win a conversation or prove me wrong because you have nothing better to do, or just cant admit that yea im right there wasnt a whole lot of good solid talent coming through the system over those years..

 

[Boobaby1]

rizzos value was low as fuck when they got him.

Then that would make Theo & Co. whitewashed with ignorance to trade their top pitching prospect (when they had none in the farm) for a low value player.

Is that what you are implying? opcorn:

 

[KBisBack!]

BUT when it came time to be able to add a solid player / PITCHING that could put them over the top they couldnt get such player(s) because they didnt have high talented prospects in their system to nab such player(s).

Kenny Lofton, Aramis Ramirez and Rich Harden say hello.

So in two of the three years the Cubs made the playoffs when Hendry was General Manager, the team was able to make significant additions at or near the trading deadline.

The other year, 2007, the Cubs were able to call up Soto who took over the catchers position the last three weeks of the season and started 2 out of the 3 playoff games.

He only went on to become NL ROY in 2008 when the Cubs led the NL in wins.

Exactly what more do you need? I am glad we are looking at things realistically.

 

[patg006]

still dont change the fact that OVERALL DURING HENDRY TENURE THE SYSTEM WAS NOT ALL THAT GOOD

You still miss the point.

It didnt have to be good when solid cores of Soriano, Sosa, Alou, Derrek Lee, Prior, Wood, Demp, Garza, Remlinger, Borowski, and dozens of damn good names manned positions and held them down for successful, longer amounts of time than those of a small market team with a very short expiration date. Derrek Lee was at 1st for how long? Aramis at 3rd? Zambrano in the rotation? Dempster, Marshall and all the names above. Cubs signed and drafted and it all stayed healthy and together, so they did not need a top pick or influx of talent.

Would it have been nice to win on a lottery ticket? Sure. But Hendry didnt have to play the lottery when he was filthy rich to begin with.

 

[KBisBack!]

still dont change the fact that OVERALL DURING HENDRY TENURE THE SYSTEM WAS NOT ALL THAT GOOD

Actually that is not a fact.

That is your subjective opinion.

 

[chibears55]

It didnt have to be good

LMAO..ok well we agree then.. i think ??? :shrug:

 

[Mr. Cub]

So where was this thread all those weeks when he wasn't leading the league in HR?

This wasn't a thread topic when he wasn't leading the HR's from that time frame. We're not psychics. It's a topic now because he has lead the league since that date. That's why, now, it's a topic.

 

[JosMin]

Actually that is not a fact.

That is your subjective opinion.