Amazon Sells Guide To Pedophilia

TSD

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What if a child was abused and the abuser had a copy of this book in their house with the Amazon receipt attached to it. Would Amazon have any liability here at all and couldn't the case be made that they perpetrated the crime? Just asking...



Tread lightly, remember awhile back some right wing militant got arrested and had a copy of was it a book by oreilly or Beck, and the lefties were saying the same thing you are now, but im sure you didnt agree with that in the least.



This is the point everyone is trying to drive home, I see your point, the problem is when you introduce shit like this governments have a bad habit of taking the ball and running with it so to speak.



It would be great if the could clearly and succintly "ban" a particular how to rape children and not get caught book and thats it, but be realistic here, you know it wouldnt stop there. When you give the government an inch they take 10,000 miles, especially when it comes to exploiting the public's fears.



Also its an example of I hate big government, except when they are forcing views i agree with on people.
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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http://jezebel.com/5686556/







This is pretty disgusting...I understand the whole "free speech" thing... but is it right to let some lunatic write about how to basically rape a kid? Amazon does not endorse the material yet they provide it for the public eye to see. Companies should frown upon this, and how is this author not locked up?





No, free speech has nothing to do with promoting something illegal.
 

bookjones

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Agreed. Also doesn't seem to help their reputation - it just seems to be bad press heading their way as the story continues to get out.



Well then IMO those people who would badger Amazon to censor themselves into not carrying the book would be raging hypocrites if they could not tell me that the day before they got their ire up about this story they weren't also outraged enough to protest to Amazon or their local B&N or Borders about carrying Mein Kampf or The Anarchist Cookbook or The Protocols of the Edlers of Zion as examples. Look, the book at debate is vile in intent and scope---as well, whoever it's sordid audience is also vile but you risk going down a VERY slippery slope when you try to stifle or halt access to texts no matter their content and where that slope will likely end up is involving religious texts and then you set off a culture/morality war in this nation that would be tantamount to an atomic bomb being leveled stateside IMO. People should tread carefully in what they demand. . .they just might get it.
 

bookjones

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Tread lightly, remember awhile back some right wing militant got arrested and had a copy of was it a book by oreilly or Beck, and the lefties were saying the same thing you are now, but im sure you didnt agree with that in the least.



This is the point everyone is trying to drive home, I see your point, the problem is when you introduce shit like this governments have a bad habit of taking the ball and running with it so to speak.



It would be great if the could clearly and succintly "ban" a particular how to rape children and not get caught book and thats it, but be realistic here, you know it wouldnt stop there. When you give the government an inch they take 10,000 miles, especially when it comes to exploiting the public's fears.



Also its an example of I hate big government, except when they are forcing views i agree with on people.





It's no secret that I advocate reading and gaining knowledge and perhaps even more importantly a robust intellect through reading. As such I am vehemently opposed to censorship---not only of the limiting of writers rights but also the attempts to thwart dissemination and availability of content no matter how morally repugnant or offensive I personally may find the content.



I used to study the Holocaust as a personal side interest in my teens and 20's until I sort of burned out on it at 30 or so. I will always remember the first time I went to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in DC how as a reader and book lover I was particularly struck by the fact that the first thing visitors see once they pass the main entrance hall is a quote by the poet Heinrich Heine etched in the wall, "Where one burns books, one will, in the end, burn people." I thought that a pretty overwhelming sentiment and acutely prophetic to make this the first visual---to remind visitors of the notion that in order to destroy a people you must first render them ignorant and therefore enslaved to whatever information you "allow" them and the way to start this process has oft times historically been to keep them from books/knowledge---when you make the masses mindless drones they will condone anything and do anything. Profound really, that the Museum committee, of all the quotes they could have selected about the horror that chose this one is excrutiatingly telling IMO. This one sentence quote, etched simply in a stone wall and it's effect on me the first time I saw it has seared my memories and has stayed with me all my days.
 

Ton

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Well then IMO those people who would badger Amazon to censor themselves into not carrying the book would he raging hypocrites if they could not tell me that the day before they got their ire up about this story they weren't also outraged enough to protest to Amazon or their local B&N or Borders about carrying Mein Kampf or The Anarchist Cookbook or The Protocols of the Edlers of Zion as examples. Look, the book at debate is vile in intent and scope---as well, whoever it's sordid audience is also vile but you risk going down a VERY slippery slope when you try to stifle or halt access to texts no matter their content and where that slope will likely end up is involving religious texts and then you set off a culture/morality war in this nation that would be tantamount to an atomic bomb being leveled stateside IMO. People should tread carefully in what they demand. . .they just might get it.



Theres a difference in a book about anarchy and one about raping a child. Religion and politics are different from causing harm to another human being, let alone another child. I think morals come into play here, its just not really a good comparison IMO.



(The rest of this isn't directed towards you BJ)



Again, a fictional story is one thing, but a how-to-guide? Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. There's no way Amazon should endorse it. If this piece of shit wants to create a book like this, let him sell it on the streets and preach it like the bum/scum he truly is.



There's your free fucking speech for you.
 

the canadian dream

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Theres a difference in a book about anarchy and one about raping a child. Religion and politics are different from causing harm to another human being, let alone another child. I think morals come into play here, its just not really a good comparison IMO.



(The rest of this isn't directed towards you BJ)



Again, a fictional story is one thing, but a how-to-guide? Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. There's no way Amazon should endorse it. If this piece of shit wants to create a book like this, let him sell it on the streets and preach it like the bum/scum he truly is.



There's your free fucking speech for you.



oh oh ton you brought religion into this and used the words "causing harm to another human being" and "how to guide". 2 things religion can do very well. prepare for a ***** fest now lol.



I understand the point though. Not a good comparison I agree.
 

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Great news all!! - Amazon just pulled the book from its site today. The story is now on CNN.com's homepage as of early this morning. As I mentioned above the more negative press on this story the more it would hurt Amazon. And with the xmas holiday shopping season now starting up it makes no sense for a large retailer to have a controversy like this on their hands - it hurts sales. As a parent I'm glad to see this shit pulled off their site. Here's the link --> http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/10/amazon.pedophile.guide/index.html?hpt=C1
 

supraman

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Shit and i was gonna buy it too.





Also anyone else want to protest Harry Potter books just to make a point about censorship.
 

Variable

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This is one of those media stories that just begs to be blown out of proportion and usually does, mainly just to fill the needs of 24/7 news entertainment channels like CNN or Fox News or whatever. The irony in all this is that for all the people and parents who say they worry so much about their kids because of a "guide book" like this being available and BOOM now on every street corner there's a pedophile waiting to grab your kid, they don't realize that's not a realistic threat at all. The vast, vast majority of child rape/abuse/molestation comes from....take a guess... family, friends and/or authority figures. And they don't need guidebooks to show them how to avoid getting caught because they use exactly what people think is a strength as their own weakness: Family solidarity. Outright non-belief that anything occurred whatsoever or it being shrugged off. It's worked for hundreds of years, generation upon generation and it won't go out of style anytime soon. Odds are the people in your own family, your friends, hell, even YOU are more of a threat to your kids than any imaginary,boogey-man Amazon Kindle owner is.



Amazon pulling the book means nothing. It has gotten us no closer to solving this problem.
 

phranchk

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No, free speech has nothing to do with promoting something illegal.

But was this book illegal?

Hard to say without actually reading it.

Like I've said, unless it advocates certain activities it is not, but it appears it may have.

"But while Greaves says he does not advocate penetrative sex with children, he does think that 'fondling' is perfectly okay."
 

bookjones

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This is one of those media stories that just begs to be blown out of proportion and usually does, mainly just to fill the needs of a 24/7 news entertainment channels like CNN or Fox News or whatever. The irony in all this is that for all the people and parents who say they worry so much about their kids because of a "guide book" like this being available and BOOM now on every street corner there's a pedophile waiting to grab your kid, they don't realize that's not a realistic threat at all. The vast, vast majority of child rape/abuse/molestation comes from....take a guess... family, friends and/or authority figures. And they don't need guidebooks to show them how to avoid getting caught because they use exactly what people think is a strength as their own weakness: Family solidarity. Outright non-belief that anything occurred whatsoever or it being shrugged off. It's worked for hundreds of years, generation upon generation and it won't go out of style anytime soon. Odds are the people in your own family, your friends, hell, even YOU are more of a threat to your kids than any imaginary,boogey-man Amazon Kindle owner is.



Amazon pulling the book means nothing. It has gotten us no closer to solving this problem.



This post is pretty much perfect Variable. This is exactly what the false sense of its own self-importance 24-hrs. news cycle creates, merely a platform for American hypocrisy to run rampant. Willfully ignore the obvious and instead wrail on an and on about the issue that is really not at issue when you cut away the obfuscating garbage meanwhile the issue that is actually at issue and an indictment soldiers on dangerously.
 

Tater

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For me, its not about the guys right to write the book... he can write whatever he wants.



It's Amazons decision to sell the book is what pisses me off.



People trust Amazon as a good market to purchase products. Things like this are going to ruin their reputation, although they say they don't endorse the book, people will still relate it as an endorsement of Amazon approving the book to be on their virtual shelves. They admit they don't endorse the book, and want to keep their inventory as wide as possible, people won't care. They will correlate this book with Amazon and ruin their image.



IMO its a bad move by the company. They are in no way pressured to keep the book on the shelves and there is no direct involvement between Amazon and the government. It really has nothing to do with the constitution and whether or not its right to publish a book -- more so the fact that Amazon chooses to sell it and make money. That itself is sick and twisted in its own right. Anyone want to publish a book like that? Fine, have them sell it themselves.



Theres no way Amazon can say they do not endorse the product when they are clearly supporting it by accepting it into their inventory. They have a choice and they approved of the book.



QFT



Anyone think Amazon would sell a book that gave out the names of the CEO and other higher ups and all of their family members with tips on how to kill them? Free speech?
 

phranchk

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QFT



Anyone think Amazon would sell a book that gave out the names of the CEO and other higher ups and all of their family members with tips on how to kill them? Free speech?

I think that would not be protected under free speech as you are advocating violence to specific persons. Also in doing so you are violating a persons privacy.

Wish we one of our resident lawyers could chime in as to what is protected and what's not.



These all fall under speech not protected by the first ammendment.





Although different scholars view unprotected speech in different ways, there are basically nine categories:



* Obscenity

* Fighting words

* Defamation (includes libel, slander)

* Child pornography

* Perjury

* Blackmail

* Incitement to imminent lawless action

* True threats

* Solicitations to commit crimes



Some experts also would add treason, if committed verbally, to that list. Plagiarism of copyrighted material is also not protected.
 

Tater

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I think that would not be protected under free speech as you are advocating violence to specific persons. Also in doing so you are violating a persons privacy.

Wish we one of our resident lawyers could chime in as to what is protected and what's not.



Maybe I should have said "ideas" instead of "tips".

Anyways, I just now read the post that they pulled the book so I guess it doesn't matter now.
 

winos5

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This is one of those media stories that just begs to be blown out of proportion and usually does, mainly just to fill the needs of a 24/7 news entertainment channels like CNN or Fox News or whatever. The irony in all this is that for all the people and parents who say they worry so much about their kids because of a "guide book" like this being available and BOOM now on every street corner there's a pedophile waiting to grab your kid, they don't realize that's not a realistic threat at all. The vast, vast majority of child rape/abuse/molestation comes from....take a guess... family, friends and/or authority figures. And they don't need guidebooks to show them how to avoid getting caught because they use exactly what people think is a strength as their own weakness: Family solidarity. Outright non-belief that anything occurred whatsoever or it being shrugged off. It's worked for hundreds of years, generation upon generation and it won't go out of style anytime soon. Odds are the people in your own family, your friends, hell, even YOU are more of a threat to your kids than any imaginary,boogey-man Amazon Kindle owner is.



Amazon pulling the book means nothing. It has gotten us no closer to solving this problem.



Ding!



+1
 

phranchk

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Stumbled across this.



CHILD SEX

Harris Mirkin, a professor of political science at the University of Missouri, wrote an article called "The Pattern of Sexual Politics: Feminism, Homosexuality and Pedophilia" for the Journal of Homosexuality. He argued that society's reflexive horror over adult-child sex is similar to early public response to female sexuality and homosexuality. He called for less hysteria over the issue. "In sexual politics, definitions are characteristically vague, so that statistics from the mildest activities can be blended with images from the most atrocious," he wrote. "Though Americans consider intergenerational sex to be evil, it has been permissible or obligatory in many cultures and periods of history." He later explained: "There are different degrees of nonconsent, different degrees of a kid going along." He said he resented that many teachers are now afraid to hug students for fear of being accused, or the notion that a teen boy would necessarily suffer if he were seduced by an adult woman.



Free speech, or not free speech?



VERDICT: Free speech, according to the university. Although outraged state legislators voted to withdraw $100,000 in funding, the school defended Mirkin's right to express unorthodox views. "We got out of the Dark Ages when we said we could challenge belief," its chancellor said. The lawmaker who led the charge to punish the school responded that Mirkin "doesn't have a right to espouse his illegal views on the taxpayer dime."
 

supraman

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Stumbled across this.



Very interesting. He makes sense. I'm glad the school backed him. Free Speech is an all or nothing proposition. I HATE the stupid the KKK and the Neo-Nazis spout but as much as it pains me it is their right to say it.



Censorship is the same issue different format. The only good thing about the Amazon incident is the government didn't get involved.



Also seen this in an article on MSNBC



[font=Georgia, Times, serif]
In 2002, Amazon.com cited the First Amendment as justification for offering another book that advocates adult-child sex, "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers," by David L. Riegel. Further, the paperback book is still available on the site.
[/font]


[font=Georgia, Times, serif]

[/font]


[font="Georgia, Times, serif"]Which makes Amazon hypocrites. Either pull them both or put them both up. [/font]
 

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