Amazon Sells Guide To Pedophilia

[Rdrhwke]

Theres a difference in a book about anarchy and one about raping a child. Religion and politics are different from causing harm to another human being, let alone another child. I think morals come into play here, its just not really a good comparison IMO.



(The rest of this isn't directed towards you BJ)



Again, a fictional story is one thing, but a how-to-guide? Come on, this is beyond ridiculous. There's no way Amazon should endorse it. If this piece of shit wants to create a book like this, let him sell it on the streets and preach it like the bum/scum he truly is.



There's your free fucking speech for you.

+1



**** the free speech debate.



Publishers turn down manuscrpts and refuse to publish books every single day for any number of reasons and Amazon is not obligated to sell anything.



The decisions to do so are made by those companies alone and not the government.



They chose to put this revolting trash on the market so **** them and their bullshit reasons for why they did.

 

[supraman]

+1



**** the free speech debate.



Publishers turn down manuscrpts and refuse to publish books every single day for any number of reasons and Amazon is not obligated to sell anything.



The decisions to do so are made by those companies alone and not the government.



They chose to put this revolting trash on the market so **** them and their bullshit reasons for why they did.

I find the bible to be revolting trash can we ban it too?

 

[Rdrhwke]

I find the bible to be revolting trash can we ban it too?

Nice try.



If you don't find a book on pedophilia revolting then by all means go buy one.

 

[supraman]

Nice try.



If you don't find a book on pedophilia revolting then by all means go buy one.

Whether I find it revolting or not isn't the issue. Free speech and censorship is.

 

[LordKOTL]

+1



**** the free speech debate.



Publishers turn down manuscrpts and refuse to publish books every single day for any number of reasons and Amazon is not obligated to sell anything.



The decisions to do so are made by those companies alone and not the government.



They chose to put this revolting trash on the market so **** them and their bullshit reasons for why they did.

Thus, people should be on Amazon's case for offering it, NOT the US Government's case for not banning it.

 

[Rdrhwke]

Whether I find it revolting or not isn't the issue. Free speech and censorship is.

And as I said, publshers and Amazon are not obligated to print or sell anything by any law. For any number of reasons they deny to do so on a daily basis. It is their decision alone. For whatever reason, they chose to put this book on the market so **** them.



I never mientioned the govenrment censorsing anything or free speech, you did.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Then you're saying that every single song about drugs and murder should be banished from the airwaves?

Only in the extreme view (and not all drugs are illegal). How many songs about drugs and murder don't really promote such in a manner specifically to teach you how to do it with the intent of strictly doing it? How many songs actually promote both in a positive manner? Sure there are some about drugs, but I bet they do not cross the same line as this book.



Free speech is far from completely free. It all depends on the intent. In this case, this book's intent is to teach people how to successfully be a pedophile with the intent of being a pedophile, not with insight on what makes those people tick.



And not of this is to say that I am not liberal minded on such things, but there are always lines and things are never as wide open and free as some would like them to be.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Then you're saying that every single song about drugs and murder should be banished from the airwaves?

That would eliminate rap... I'm all for it.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

But was this book illegal?

Hard to say without actually reading it.

Like I've said, unless it advocates certain activities it is not, but it appears it may have.

"But while Greaves says he does not advocate penetrative sex with children, he does think that 'fondling' is perfectly okay."

I think that would not be protected under free speech as you are advocating violence to specific persons. Also in doing so you are violating a persons privacy.

Wish we one of our resident lawyers could chime in as to what is protected and what's not.



These all fall under speech not protected by the first ammendment.





Although different scholars view unprotected speech in different ways, there are basically nine categories:



* Obscenity

* Fighting words

* Defamation (includes libel, slander)

* Child pornography

* Perjury

* Blackmail

* Incitement to imminent lawless action

* True threats

* Solicitations to commit crimes



Some experts also would add treason, if committed verbally, to that list. Plagiarism of copyrighted material is also not protected.

Prior to this thread being opened, this was a hot topic amongst many faculty and staff on our campus. The majority of the faculty I spoke with were in consensus that this book fell into the child porno, and teaching how to solicit a crime categories...and thus not free speech.



Honesty I was amazed at how many could give the list you have provided in your second quote off the top of their heads.

 

[supraman]

Amazon should have either never let it be sold on their site or put it up and ignored the criticism. hell you can still buy a paperback on pedophilia on their site. So what was the point of taking it down and leaving that one up. For me Amazon flip flopping on it is the part I dislike. One minute you put it up and then defend putting it up and then finally cave to pressure and take it down. To quote Major League II "No Marbles"

 

[phranchk]

Only in the extreme view (and not all drugs are illegal). How many songs about drugs and murder don't really promote such in a manner specifically to teach you how to do it with the intent of strictly doing it? How many songs actually promote both in a positive manner? Sure there are some about drugs, but I bet they do not cross the same line as this book.



Free speech is far from completely free. It all depends on the intent. In this case, this book's intent is to teach people how to successfully be a pedophile with the intent of being a pedophile, not with insight on what makes those people tick.



And not of this is to say that I am not liberal minded on such things, but there are always lines and things are never as wide open and free as some would like them to be.

Yes, but there's thousands of books that teach how to do illegal activities and as long as it doesn't advocate you doing such activities those books are protected under free speech.



some examples still being published and sold. All illegal activities and all the books are protected under free speech because none of them advocate involvement in the activities, even though it's implied that by buying those books you may.



http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Pit-Fight...88/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1289502116&sr=8-19

The Dog Pit - Or, How To Select, Breed, Train And Manage Fighting Dogs, With Points As To Their Care In Health And Disease - 1888 (History Of Fighting Dogs Series)



http://www.amazon.com/Web-Applicati...0778/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1289502223&sr=8-5

The Web Application Hacker's Handbook: Discovering and Exploiting Security Flaws



The always popular Anarchist Cookbook

http://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Coo...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289502324&sr=1-1



How to make bombs under the guise of learning how to combat bombs

Terrorist Explosive Sourcebook: Countering Terrorist Use Of Improvised Explosive Devices

http://www.amazon.com/Terrorist-Exp...=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289502348&sr=1-3



Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible

http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Hor...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289502433&sr=1-1

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Yes, but there's thousands of books that teach how to do illegal activities and as long as it doesn't advocate you doing such activities those books are protected under free speech.

Yea, that is pretty much what I meant with intent.

 

[LordKOTL]

Only in the extreme view (and not all drugs are illegal). How many songs about drugs and murder don't really promote such in a manner specifically to teach you how to do it with the intent of strictly doing it? How many songs actually promote both in a positive manner? Sure there are some about drugs, but I bet they do not cross the same line as this book.



Free speech is far from completely free. It all depends on the intent. In this case, this book's intent is to teach people how to successfully be a pedophile with the intent of being a pedophile, not with insight on what makes those people tick.



And not of this is to say that I am not liberal minded on such things, but there are always lines and things are never as wide open and free as some would like them to be.

Quite a bit actually...and I'm not even focusing on Death metal, Black Metal, Thrash Metal, and Rap. Hell, Johnny Cash's "Deilea's Gone" <sp?> Falls under advocating murder. And just look at the '60's to find plenty of songs advocating drugs.



Now, in all fairness, I've not read that book nor intend to, so I can't say if there is the line crossed from being inciteful or not. But, assuming it's along the same vein as the Anarchist's Cookbook, I don't see any problem with it being in existance.

 

[Rdrhwke]

This is the part I find interesting...



Amazon's policy prohibits porn from being sold in its Kindle store.



So I am curious as to what they considered this book.

 

[phranchk]

Seems as though the book infuriated a few too many people and Amazon has pulled the book.



My link

That was already posted earlier in the thread

 

[LordKOTL]

Ya know...maybe I'm completely off my rocker here...but this would be something I think any well-adjusted parent would want to read.



Why? Well, You're a parent. You love your kids (not that way). You want to protect them. Why not read a guide, as despicable as it is, that will outline the whole proces of a kiddie-fiddler's grooming technique to teach your kids how not to fall for it?

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Prior to this thread being opened, this was a hot topic amongst many faculty and staff on our campus. The majority of the faculty I spoke with were in consensus that this book fell into the child porno, and teaching how to solicit a crime categories...and thus not free speech.



Honesty I was amazed at how many could give the list you have provided in your second quote off the top of their heads.

Just curious, what's the background of the faculty/staff?

I'm asking this because I sent the information to my friend that has a doctorate and teaches post grads about sex education, sexual disorders, etc. Hopefully he will comment quickly.



In no way am I implying that his opinion supersedes those of your colleagues.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Just curious, what's the background of the faculty/staff?

Lib arts, social sciences, physical science, business law.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Quite a bit actually...and I'm not even focusing on Death metal, Black Metal, Thrash Metal, and Rap. Hell, Johnny Cash's "Deilea's Gone" <sp?> Falls under advocating murder. And just look at the '60's to find plenty of songs advocating drugs.



Now, in all fairness, I've not read that book nor intend to, so I can't say if there is the line crossed from being inciteful or not. But, assuming it's along the same vein as the Anarchist's Cookbook, I don't see any problem with it being in existance.

Again, what is the intent with the songs or any "free speech"? That is what is the primary dividing line to how "free" it is.



While most people probably know the Cash or Dylan version of Delia's Gone (about the murder of Delia Green), it does pre-date both, and it is more of retelling of her story, not a song telling people to go out and kill.

 

[TSD]

Nice try.



If you don't find a book on pedophilia revolting then by all means go buy one.

Actually there is quite a bit of condoned pedophelia, rape, murder, incest, genocide, slavery in the bible. so.......

This is the part I find interesting...



Amazon's policy prohibits porn from being sold in its Kindle store.



So I am curious as to what they considered this book.

Does it actually show naked children? If theres no nudity or illustrations of sex, not sure if it would qualify.





I have no problem with a retailer deciding they dont want to sell a book because they dont agree with the contents, but I dont think the government should get involved, if the content is currently no breaking any law.



Its like my argument for marijuana, people who want to **** children are going to try whether this book exists or not.