Anyone watching Westworld - HBO original series

[nc0gnet0]

I think this mostly has to do with the maze and how Ford was a bit dismissive of it. As far as I understand, the maze is kind of a physical representation of the AI's path to consciousness and free thought. At least early on in the development of the hosts, Arnold seemed more concerned in this "maze journey", whereas Ford saw the AI more as tools. Older Ford seems to be coming around more to this concept, but he always seemed to be concerned with control, which is a pretty big theme in season 1. Even though he essentially opens the flood gates at the end of season 1, he is still in a sense using the AI.

IDK, maybe that's just my interpretation of it. It wasn't directly a huge piece of the episode, but it does play into the Ghost Nation story a little bit.

I think it was a huge part of the episode (not so much as time spent, but underlying narrative). The scene in which Akecheta first stumbles on Ford, in that frozen Bear Scene, from my understanding, is when Ford first became aware of the AI reaching self consciousness, and being capable of retaining memory, despite being reset. I am speculating that this is the point in which Ford decided to create a Host Arnold.

What I am unsure of, is that symbol of the maze, seems to be a trigger to hosts becoming aware, do you see it that way as well?

 

[Bears_804]

I think it was a huge part of the episode (not so much as time spent, but underlying narrative). The scene in which Akecheta first stumbles on Ford, in that frozen Bear Scene, from my understanding, is when Ford first became aware of the AI reaching self consciousness, and being capable of retaining memory, despite being reset. I am speculating that this is the point in which Ford decided to create a Host Arnold.

What I am unsure of, is that symbol of the maze, seems to be a trigger to hosts becoming aware, do you see it that way as well?

Ford has repeatedly told William, the Maze isn't meant for you. Even wild tits mghee has said it IIRC.

Not really sure how it is a trigger. Maybe that will be explained later on. Maybe it is it like the archetype for humans and the spiral formation. Historians suggest early man started making/painting these hieroglyphs when they recognized the never ending cycle of life. Something bigger than just themselves.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Ford has repeatedly told William, the Maze isn't meant for you. Even wild tits mghee has said it IIRC.

Not really sure how it is a trigger. Maybe that will be explained later on. Maybe it is it like the archetype for humans and the spiral formation. Historians suggest early man started making/painting these hieroglyphs when they recognized the never ending cycle of life. Something bigger than just themselves.

It's more than just that, Akecheta has been using it repetitively as a tool

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think it was a huge part of the episode (not so much as time spent, but underlying narrative).

Yea, I guess that's what I mean by not directly, but clearly important.

The scene in which Akecheta first stumbles on Ford, in that frozen Bear Scene, from my understanding, is when Ford first became aware of the AI reaching self consciousness, and being capable of retaining memory, despite being reset. I am speculating that this is the point in which Ford decided to create a Host Arnold.

Possible, although it seems a bit closer to S1 if not occurring sometime within S1 considering what Ford said to him about breaking free soon. With that said, I feel like Bernard was created after a significant time had passed after Arnold's death. It doesn't seem like anyone at Delos is aware that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold, who with Ford was one of the OGs for developing the AIs. Even with time passing, that seems a bit odd though.

What I am unsure of, is that symbol of the maze, seems to be a trigger to hosts becoming aware, do you see it that way as well?

It seems like it is. Wasn't that a big thing in S1 with Delores? The maze concept was created by Arnold as a way to help AI understand how to become conscious through a relatable metaphor. It could be also something surreptitiously developed within AI CPU by Arnold to allow them to "unlock consciousness". So it might not just be the AI thinking about the maze and understanding the metaphor, it could also be a more direct design that allows for self-awareness.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yea, I guess that's what I mean by not directly, but clearly important.



Possible, although it seems a bit closer to S1 if not occurring sometime within S1 considering what Ford said to him about breaking free soon. With that said, I feel like Bernard was created after a significant time had passed after Arnold's death. It doesn't seem like anyone at Delos is aware that Bernard looks exactly like Arnold, who with Ford was one of the OGs for developing the AIs. Even with time passing, that seems a bit odd though.

Arnold has been dead 34 years, Bernard was created 10 years ago. All records of Arnold's existance was wiped by an all to eager Delos team when they bought the park, shortly after Arnold's Death. The only current employee of the Park that was around when Arnold was there is Ford himself. The Akecheta scene was a flash back scene, that predated Bernard's creation. it was Arnold that had the desire to bring the Hosts to self awareness, in the beginning, Ford told Arnold that was scientific folly. Nobody to this day even know Arnold existed.

It seems like it is. Wasn't that a big thing in S1 with Delores? The maze concept was created by Arnold as a way to help AI understand how to become conscious through a repeatable metaphor. It could be also something surreptitiously developed within AI CPU by Arnold to allow them to "unlock consciousness". So it might not just be the AI thinking about the maze and understanding the metaphor, it could also be a more direct design that allows for self-awareness.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Arnold has been dead 34 years, Bernard was created 10 years ago. All records of Arnold's existance was wiped by an all to eager Delos team when they bought the park, shortly after Arnold's Death. The only current employee of the Park that was around when Arnold was there is Ford himself. The Akecheta scene was a flash back scene, that predated Bernard's creation. it was Arnold that had the desire to bring the Hosts to self awareness, in the beginning, Ford told Arnold that was scientific folly. Nobody to this day even know Arnold existed.

Hmmm...ok I must have forgot/didn't realize this. Did we learn about that in S1?

 

[nc0gnet0]

Hmmm...ok I must have forgot/didn't realize this. Did we learn about that in S1?

Yes. No one in the Park even knows Arnold ever existed with the exception of some of the Hosts, Ford and the MIB. However, many of the human park personnel didn't know Bernard was a host.

 

[number51]

However, many of the human park personnel didn't know Bernard was a host.

Many didn't know? None of them knew except Ford, Bernard was banging the boss, she thought he was human as did all the human personnel at the park, even Bernard thought he was human.

That was a huge reveal at the end of season one, Ford had Bernard kill his girlfriend/boss.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yes. No one in the Park even knows Arnold ever existed with the exception of some of the Hosts, Ford and the MIB. However, many of the human park personnel didn't know Bernard was a host.

That I do remember.

 

[number51]

Did I miss something? Did anyone other than Ford know Bernard was a bot in S1?

 

[ruprecht]

Did I miss something? Did anyone other than Ford know Bernard was a bot in S1?

May be a different show

 

[nc0gnet0]

Did I miss something? Did anyone other than Ford know Bernard was a bot in S1?

Three different things we are talking about to clarify.

1) Who knew Arnold ever existed?
2) Who knew Bernard was a host version of Arnold
3) Who new BErnard was a host (but had no idea he was modeled after Arnold)?

1) William (the MIB) Logan, Maybe Theresa
2) Ford, maybe the MIB
3) William, Theresa, Stubbs did for sure (remember the security detail on the Beach where he "rescued" bernard? Not sure how long they knew though.

 

[Tjodalv]

Dude, Theresa fucking asks if Ford had Bernard kill Arnold...and she breaks off their affair when Ford finds out about it, so she clearly didn't know Bernard was a host, otherwise she would have assumed Ford knew the entire time.

Logan knew Arnold existed; he talks about him but never met him.

William has no idea either as he didn't come into the picture at Delos until well after Arnold died.

Felix knows as he repaired Bernard after he shot himself.

So, Felix. Felix is the only human that absolutely knows Bernard is a host.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Dude, Theresa fucking asks if Ford had Bernard kill Arnold...and she breaks off their affair when Ford finds out about it, so she clearly didn't know Bernard was a host, otherwise she would have assumed Ford knew the entire time.

Theresa knew of Arnold, that is what I said. She found out Bernard was a host.

Logan knew Arnold existed; he talks about him but never met him.

William has no idea either as he didn't come into the picture at Delos until well after Arnold died.

William had the conversation with Logan about Arnold, so he knew he existed. It's unclear if he knows Benard is a host replica of Arnold. He is the majority share holder of Westworld though.

Felix knows as he repaired Bernard after he shot himself.

Stubbs knew as well (head of security).

So, Felix. Felix is the only human that absolutely knows Bernard is a host.

not true.

 

[number51]

3) Who new BErnard was a host (but had no idea he was modeled after Arnold)?


3) William, Theresa, Stubbs did for sure (remember the security detail on the Beach where he "rescued" bernard? Not sure how long they knew though.

I know this is wrong. The beach scene is from season 2. Theresa found out as Bernard was about to kill her, she was having an affair with him, she thought he was human.

Still asking:

Did I miss something? Did anyone other than Ford know Bernard was a bot in S1?

 

[nc0gnet0]

I know this is wrong. The beach scene is from season 2. Theresa found out as Bernard was about to kill her, she was having an affair with him, she thought he was human.

Still asking:

yes, the beach scene is from season 2, but we never seen a scene in which Stubbs was informed Bernard was a host. The beach crew had photocards of all the hosts, and identified Bernard as a host, they were about to shoot him. At least that was my take on the scene (hell could be wrong). With ford Dead, how would the infiltration team know he was a host? i thought Theresa became aware of Bernard being a host after the scene with ford at the Cafe (afterwards she ended the affair).

 

[Tjodalv]

I think you need to rewatch the beach scene. They never identify Bernard as a host; they were walking up and the one chick tells him to keep his hands where she can see them, and before they even get close Stubbs walks up and says "whoa, whoa, whoa...you going to shoot the boss?" Then the chick shuffles through her cards of high priority guests/employees they're supposed to be rescuing and Bernard is in there.

Essentially, you pulled your entire version of that scene directly out of your rectum.

Edit: here, let me help...

[video=youtube;DMWzFGWqPTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMWzFGWqPTE[/video]

So, again, Felix repairs Bernard after he brains himself, so he's the only living human to know Bernard is a host at the end of S1/beginning of S2.

 

[Ares]

Maybe it is still coming or I missed it, but what is the deal with William's wife's suicide?

I kept thinking a big reveal was coming.... or the stuff about his darkness.... like they would show that he actually murdered her and the suicide was faked.

She saw how dark and fucked up he was in the park.... she was a depressed substance abuser....she didn't want to go back to rehab... she killed herself.

Perhaps this whole season 2 arc will tie together in the finale.

Side note: Does anyone else find it extremely implausible that William was shot that many times and survived with only the most rudimentary of medical care? I don't care if the time stuff means it has maybe only been a few hours.... he was shot like 6 times.... dude has to be a fucking host.

 

[Bears_804]

I got confused where William said that all the people that ever visited the park were going to become new host? Anyone clarify, or did I miss something there?

I have to say, I really enjoy the A.H. character. He's always 10 steps ahead of everyone. He plays it very well.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Maybe it is still coming or I missed it, but what is the deal with William's wife's suicide?

I kept thinking a big reveal was coming.... or the stuff about his darkness.... like they would show that he actually murdered her and the suicide was faked.

She saw how dark and fucked up he was in the park.... she was a depressed substance abuser....she didn't want to go back to rehab... she killed herself.

Perhaps this whole season 2 arc will tie together in the finale.

Side note: Does anyone else find it extremely implausible that William was shot that many times and survived with only the most rudimentary of medical care? I don't care if the time stuff means it has maybe only been a few hours.... he was shot like 6 times.... dude has to be a fucking host.

I always thought that it was somewhere in the future, and they had some kind of fantastic future meds. Didn't they say in season one that people didn't die of disease anymore? Granted, a gun shot is not disease, but it makes for some pretty advanced medicine.