At what point does Rose overtake Pippen?

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Are they paying you to be controversial? You say some sumb stuff. How was pippen help better than rose?

Excluding rose and pippen,

Center noah is better than longley
PF boozer<grant
SF deng> rookie kukoc
SG bogans>myers
PG watson<armstrong
6th gibson>williams
7th brewer>jojo english
8th asik>old cartwright

I believed the 94 bulls would've bested the 11 bulls cuz of how hard rose had to work to score when james defended him. Put pippen on him and it would've been worse.

You evaluate teams based on a system with greater than and less than signs and you claim that I don't know basketball?

You're a joke. And your logic is faulty.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Here's some of 97's own logic used against him:

Grant
>
Boozer=Noah=Deng=Kukoc=Armstrong
>
everybody else

 

[Crystallas]

Whoa, Myers was actually solid. Myers > Bogans. At least while he filled in for Mike. Any other time, Pete would be better suited for the bench of lower leagues in Eastern Europe.
Pippen and Myers read off each other VERY well, and if it wasn't for BJ having an all-star year, Pete's usage would have been much higher.

disclaimer* I still don't like Pete Myers, but I had to be fair here. He wasn't a scrub filling in for Jordan.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Man... I love how this moron dismissed the Bulls' 62-20 off as "playing in a weaker NBA." Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong would never have made the all-star team this season... Grant would come close but I'm still taking Horford. And that is the weak Eastern Conference forwards... That is such utter bullshit.

So Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah combine to miss nearly 50 games and Rose STILL manages to pull 62 wins out of his ass. That is no less than amazing. It is blasphemy to say it is not... especially as a supposed Bulls' fan. You are really going to undermine that accomplishment?!

I will go as far as to say that if the Bulls had Horace Grant instead of Carlos Boozer that the Bulls go on to win the 2010 championship. Hell, Pete Myers was a better player than Keith Bogans... To claim otherwise hyperbole and nothing more.

 

[Crystallas]

Well, every position has changed too much to compare them straight up.

The NBA doesn't have many true point guards anymore, and true shooting guards are slowly becoming a luxury for teams. Centers are more like the bigs before the NBA became obsessed with every man in the middle being over 7'. PF's now play the euro-style game and SFs have to be multi-dimensional.

It's not because the past players, like BJ, weren't capable of doing it, it just wasn't their role. Longley wouldn't be an NBA starter by today's scape, because a team would rather start a 2nd PF over him.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Whoa, Myers was actually solid. Myers > Bogans. At least while he filled in for Mike. Any other time, Pete would be better suited for the bench of lower leagues in Eastern Europe.
Pippen and Myers read off each other VERY well, and if it wasn't for BJ having an all-star year, Pete's usage would have been much higher.

disclaimer* I still don't like Pete Myers, but I had to be fair here. He wasn't a scrub filling in for Jordan.

RIGHT ON BROTHER...
Couldn't of said it better myself..
I would take 1 Myers over 2 bogans...
Pete Myers would averageprobabely 10 plus points on this currant Bulls roster.
His defense was also slightly better than Bogans as well..

 

[houheffna]

Hou, do you still think John Wall will be better than Rose?

I don't know...I said Rose would never be as good as Wade...then last year happened. There is a chance that Wall could be, I doubt it however...

Did I say Wall would be better or could be better?

 

[houheffna]

Why Scottie Pippen is better then Derrick Rose?
Because he is better defensive player, better offensive player, better understands the game, better all around player, IQ, hard-worker.
Scottie was not a leader in bulls team (except 94 and 95 seasons) but defense of bulls team based on him, almost in every game he had triple-double, plus 2 blocks and steals.
Derrick is still young and don't have "pro-vision" yet and game understanding.

Can you name an MVP in league history who didn't have "game understanding" and played the point guard position? Can you name anybody? That doesn't make sense.

The question is based on projections...Rose is a better player at this point in his career and he has much more responsibility.

And I like how you point out Pippen was a hard worker...like Rose isn't...

 

[houheffna]

It clear rami, that you don't know a damn thing about basketball

Better playmaker? Scottie pippen ran an offense that produced six championships. Derrick rose is 22. And has a looooooooong way to go before he can trump pippen.

And how is rose a better scorer? He takes more shots and that's about it. Pippen is much more efficient. Better in the post. Better 3pt shooter, and a better mid range shooter too. Rose doesn't even have much confidence in his jumpshot.

Michael Jordan and the triangle offense produced six championships...all of a sudden Pippen is Magic Johnson? GTFOH...

Pippen was not wiz in the post...quit talking about that as if he was Adrian Dantley...Pippen was not more efficient at scoring...where do you get "much more" from? Pippen could barely shoot 70% from the line...

And Rose doesn't even have confidence in his jumpshot...which would explain why he took 5x as many 3pt per game than he did in the previous season...and no, Pippen was not a better mid range shooter...this stuff is laughable.

 

[houheffna]

Those were jordans titles? Don't be a fool. Pippen played a major role in those 6 championships.

And rodman is better than barkley. I've always thought barkley was overrated. He was constantly over weight, and was an atrocious defender. He was an amzing offensive player, and rebounder, but that's about it. The only reason rodman isn't ranked higher is due to his off the court antics. Rodman has accomplished much more than barkley. 7 rebounding titles, 2 dpoy awards the all defense teams. And I'm not gonna even gonna mention the 5 championships. Barkley has 1 mvp and a few all nba selections.

Rodman was a winner, id pick him over barkley any day.c

So you would remove Barkley from the top 50 list and put in Dennis Rodman?????

And you just accused someone else of not knowing basketball??? I am not going to get into a Rodman/Barkley debate because that is just stupid. Barkley was the better player easily...stop this madness.

There is a difference between playing with great players as a member of the supporting class like Rodman and Pippen were...and being the franchise player like Rose and Barkley...big difference.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

really not surprised this has turned into a big argument

must...resist....joining...

 

[houheffna]

Man... I love how this moron dismissed the Bulls' 62-20 off as "playing in a weaker NBA." Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong would never have made the all-star team this season... Grant would come close but I'm still taking Horford. And that is the weak Eastern Conference forwards... That is such utter bullshit.

So Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah combine to miss nearly 50 games and Rose STILL manages to pull 62 wins out of his ass. That is no less than amazing. It is blasphemy to say it is not... especially as a supposed Bulls' fan. You are really going to undermine that accomplishment?!

I will go as far as to say that if the Bulls had Horace Grant instead of Carlos Boozer that the Bulls go on to win the 2010 championship. Hell, Pete Myers was a better player than Keith Bogans... To claim otherwise hyperbole and nothing more.

Remember Oakley and Starks made the all star game also...that wouldn't have happened in today's league either.

 

[eternityw]

Can you name an MVP in league history who didn't have "game understanding" and played the point guard position? Can you name anybody? That doesn't make sense.

The question is based on projections...Rose is a better player at this point in his career and he has much more responsibility.

And I like how you point out Pippen was a hard worker...like Rose isn't...

If Rose have had a "game understanding" he and his team would be in the finals not the heat team. Derrick can't play quality offense against tight defense... for now.... so he has to learn a lot if he wants to....

 

[Glide2keva]

at this point it isn't debatable at all imo.

Yes, Rose has an MVP, so? Pippen did so much more than that. Rose might never do what Scottie did with the Bulls.

and who cares if Pippen played with MJ. Magic played with Kareem. Shaq played with Kobe. Bird played with a couple of H.O.F players etc.

Maybe Rose will one day do enough to be a better Bull than Pippen, but right now, it's not close imo.

Correction, Kobe played with Shaq.

 

[houheffna]

If Rose have had a "game understanding" he and his team would be in the finals not the heat team. Derrick can't play quality offense against tight defense... for now.... so he has to learn a lot if he wants to....

The Bulls needed much more than Rose to improve mentally for them to beat the Heat. And again, Rose was the focal point of the defense... that is why the Bulls need another playmaker...

 

[Glide2keva]

It's crazy how much disrespect Scottie Pippen gets around here.

Those weren't just "Jordan's" titles, those were Mike & Scottie's titles. Any Bulls fan would say that. Scottie was just as important to those teams as Jordan was. People can have their personal opinions and that's fine, but to refer to Scottie like he was some replaceable scrub that just rode Jordan to 6 titles is completely disrespectful.

I'm wondering how many titles did Jordan win before Scottie emerged? That's right, 0. How many playoff appearances did he make after he and Scottie stopped playing together? That's right 0.

It seems people are using revisionist history and putting Scottie's level of importance down to the level of Ed Nealy.

Now to answer the question:

IMO

Rose is well on his way to being the second best Bulls of all time. I have him at #3 right now behind Scottie. To me he is closing in on him because he will have more time in a Bulls uniform as the head honcho, and will accomplish more individually than Scottie did, but the difference will be in the Championships, can he win one. That's the only thing that will lead him past Scottie IMO.

Like I said, this is MY OPINION, I'm not presenting it as fact as others around here like to do.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

It's crazy how much disrespect Scottie Pippen gets around here.

Those weren't just "Jordan's" titles, those were Mike & Scottie's titles. Any Bulls fan would say that. Scottie was just as important to those teams as Jordan was. People can have their personal opinions and that's fine, but to refer to Scottie like he was some replaceable scrub that just rode Jordan to 6 titles is completely disrespectful.

I'm wondering how many titles did Jordan win before Scottie emerged? That's right, 0. How many playoff appearances did he make after he and Scottie stopped playing together? That's right 0.

It seems people are using revisionist history and putting Scottie's level of importance down to the level of Ed Nealy.

Now to answer the question:

IMO

Rose is well on his way to being the second best Bulls of all time. I have him at #3 right now behind Scottie. To me he is closing in on him because he will have more time in a Bulls uniform as the head honcho, and will accomplish more individually than Scottie did, but the difference will be in the Championships, can he win one. That's the only thing that will lead him past Scottie IMO.

Like I said, this is MY OPINION, I'm not presenting it as fact as others around here like to do.

GODBLESSS YOU. You just made me proud to be here. YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IN EVERYTHING YOU SAID AND I SALUTE YOU. I THINK YOUR STATEMENT SHOULD CLOSE THIS THREAD THAT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SNEAK ATTACK ON SCOTTIE PIPPEN. THIS THREAD EMBARESSES THE INTEGRITY OF THIS WHOLE FORUM. IT SHOULD BE DELETED IMMEDIATELY SO VISITORS OF THIS SITE DON'T HAVE TO READ THE CRAP THAT HUEHEFNER AND HIS GANG OF PIPPENHATING THUGS HAVE TO SAY...
I would of left this argument alone a long time ago but the idiotic kids that post on this forum continue to disrespect ScottiePippen like he was average. They make my stomach turn. And I'm out of Tums...
CAN MODS PLEASE COLES THIS RIDICULOUS THREAD PLEASE??...THANKYOU!!!!

 

[poodski]

I always felt Pippen was the most overrated player in NBA history.

 

[BNB]

Correction, Kobe played with Shaq.

hahaah

you're right. Wasn't thinking about the order when I was typing it.

 

[Glide2keva]

hahaah

you're right. Wasn't thinking about the order when I was typing it.

No biggie, but a lot of Kobe fans like to diminish Shaq, much the same way Jordan fans like to diminish Scottie, and vice versa.