Ben Gordon Is Really Freaking Good

[houheffna]

I didn't say they were going to sign 2 FAs, I just said that Johnson by himself wasn't enough. And then I found the guy who I think best complimented Johnson...it was wishful thinking is all.

 

[dougthonus]

It makes me sad the Bulls don't have Gordon right now. Swap out Gordon and Salmons, and the Bulls are 4-1 and looking dominant.

 

[mlewinth]

dougthonus wrote:

It makes me sad the Bulls don't have Gordon right now. Swap out Gordon and Salmons, and the Bulls are 4-1 and looking dominant.

Agreed...its a shame

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

It makes me sad the Bulls don't have Gordon right now. Swap out Gordon and Salmons, and the Bulls are 4-1 and looking dominant.

Agreed

 

[??? ??????]

jsain360 wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

It's still early in the NBA season, but Ben Gordon is playing at an allstar level, and having a ridiculous season scoring the basketball.

Through five games, Ben is averaging 25.2 PPG on 66.4 TS%.

If Ben keeps this up all season long, he will be on one of the All NBA Teams, and will be in the MVP discussion. Now I don't think he can keep this up (maybe the volume, but not the efficiency).

However, it wouldn't shock me if he put up his first 60+ TS% season this year. He just looks a lot better on the court. Last year he talked about how was cutting back on his weight, as he wasn't really seeing great results from being stronger than the other players. This new slimmed down version of Gordon looks better. To put it bluntly, Ben Gordon is a lot quicker this year than he has been any other year in his career, which has helped him in his penetration game, which has allowed him to score better on the drive, and also draw fouls like a star (8.6 FTA per game).

In addition, Keuster's offense is setting him up with good angles and good looks.

So far this year, he is #2 in offensive win shares behind Chris Paul, and #4 in total win shares at 1.1 behind Paul Pierce, Chris Paul, and Rajon Rondo. That is just a SICK number right there, as the Pistons only have 2 wins, which means that Ben Gordon was 55% responsible for their wins. HE WAS MORE THAN HALF THE REASON THEY WON THOSE GAMES.

Now some people might come in and say that, well if Ben Gordon is so good, then why are the Pistons only 2-3? Why? Because the team has been complete garbage outside of Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace, and Rip Hamilton was good in the one game he played, but only played in one.

The reasons for the Pistons sucking can easily be seen in the team's offensive efficiency stats.

Outside of Gordon, here are how the Pistons rank in offensive efficiency.

1. Ben Wallace - 60.3 TS% (Great Scoring Efficiency)
2. Rip Hamilton - 59.0 TS% (Great Scoring Efficiency)
3. Jason Maxiell - 52.3 TS% (Below Average Scoring Efficiency)
4. Tayshaun Prince - 52.3 TS% (Below Average Scoring Efficiency)
5. Will Bynum - 48.9 TS% (Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
6. Charlie Villanueva - 48.9 TS% (Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
7. Jonas Jarebko - 45.0 TS% (Very Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
8. Austin Daye - 43.8 TS% (Very Very Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
9. Rodney Stuckey - 42.3 TS% (Are you kidding me? Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
10. Kwame Brown - 40.5 TS% (Haha Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
11. Chris Wilcox - 19.3 TS% (WTF Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)

Here is the inherent problem with the Pistons. See those two guys up top. Ben Wallace is a low volume scorer. Rip Hamilton has only played one game. So there only two efficient scorers outside of Gordon haven't taken any type of volume of shots for the Pistons over the course of the season.

And here is the second problem. Here is the ranking of the Pistons top volume shot takers for the season.

1. Rip Hamilton - 19.0 FGA
2. Rodney Stuckey - 16.4 FGA
3. Ben Gordon - 15.2 FGA
4. Will Bynum - 11.0 FGA
5. Tayshaun Prince - 10.3 FGA
6. Charlie Villanueva - 10.2 FGA

Here is an inherent problem with the Pistons. Rip Hamilton hasn't played most of the season, so you can really start to look at it from #2-6. Rodney Stuckey leads the Pistons in FGA per game. That is Rodney Stuckey, Mr. 42.3 TS%, taking the most shots per a game. When your leading shot taker is shooting 42.3 TS%, you're not going to be a good overall team. It's just not going to happen.

Yet even though the Pistons have been absolutely pathetic offensively outside of Gordon, Hamilton, and Ben Wallace, they still have a much better offensive efficiency than us. That is completely a result of what Ben Gordon has been doing out there on the offensive end.

The Bulls guards have also been what have been holding them out. All three of their main guards have played pathetic basketball this year.

You have Derrick Rose at 44.2 TS%, Kirk Hinrich 41.0 TS%, and John Salmons 33.9 TS%. All pathetic.

I was one of the few people who felt that Derrick Rose may never be the caliber of player that Ben Gordon is.

I was already certain that we made a mistake in choosing Kirk Hinrich over Ben Gordon. I was certain that we made a mistake in choosing John Salmons over Ben Gordon.

Now, it looks like we might have made a mistake in choosing Derrick Rose over Ben Gordon as well.

Put away the Ben Gordon glasses, Rose will be a much better player than Ben will ever be, he may not score or shoot the 3 like Ben, but he will surpass Ben in everything else.

Right now Ben is a significantly better scorer and defender than Rose. They're equal rebounders, and Rose is a significantly better passer.

Ben Gordon is a much, much better player than Derrick Rose. Right now, it's not looking good for Rose in becoming a better player than Gordon.

 

[pinkizdead]

swap kirk for gordon and we look amazing. salmons can come in and defend post players, and absorb all the back up minutes at 2/3. gordon becomes an offensive nightmare. lanes open up and rose and deng flourish.

salmons opts out for next year, and we get a really awesome 4.

 

[TheStig]

??? ?????? wrote:

jsain360 wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

It's still early in the NBA season, but Ben Gordon is playing at an allstar level, and having a ridiculous season scoring the basketball.

Through five games, Ben is averaging 25.2 PPG on 66.4 TS%.

If Ben keeps this up all season long, he will be on one of the All NBA Teams, and will be in the MVP discussion. Now I don't think he can keep this up (maybe the volume, but not the efficiency).

However, it wouldn't shock me if he put up his first 60+ TS% season this year. He just looks a lot better on the court. Last year he talked about how was cutting back on his weight, as he wasn't really seeing great results from being stronger than the other players. This new slimmed down version of Gordon looks better. To put it bluntly, Ben Gordon is a lot quicker this year than he has been any other year in his career, which has helped him in his penetration game, which has allowed him to score better on the drive, and also draw fouls like a star (8.6 FTA per game).

In addition, Keuster's offense is setting him up with good angles and good looks.

So far this year, he is #2 in offensive win shares behind Chris Paul, and #4 in total win shares at 1.1 behind Paul Pierce, Chris Paul, and Rajon Rondo. That is just a SICK number right there, as the Pistons only have 2 wins, which means that Ben Gordon was 55% responsible for their wins. HE WAS MORE THAN HALF THE REASON THEY WON THOSE GAMES.

Now some people might come in and say that, well if Ben Gordon is so good, then why are the Pistons only 2-3? Why? Because the team has been complete garbage outside of Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace, and Rip Hamilton was good in the one game he played, but only played in one.

The reasons for the Pistons sucking can easily be seen in the team's offensive efficiency stats.

Outside of Gordon, here are how the Pistons rank in offensive efficiency.

1. Ben Wallace - 60.3 TS% (Great Scoring Efficiency)
2. Rip Hamilton - 59.0 TS% (Great Scoring Efficiency)
3. Jason Maxiell - 52.3 TS% (Below Average Scoring Efficiency)
4. Tayshaun Prince - 52.3 TS% (Below Average Scoring Efficiency)
5. Will Bynum - 48.9 TS% (Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
6. Charlie Villanueva - 48.9 TS% (Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
7. Jonas Jarebko - 45.0 TS% (Very Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
8. Austin Daye - 43.8 TS% (Very Very Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
9. Rodney Stuckey - 42.3 TS% (Are you kidding me? Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
10. Kwame Brown - 40.5 TS% (Haha Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)
11. Chris Wilcox - 19.3 TS% (WTF Pathetic Scoring Efficiency)

Here is the inherent problem with the Pistons. See those two guys up top. Ben Wallace is a low volume scorer. Rip Hamilton has only played one game. So there only two efficient scorers outside of Gordon haven't taken any type of volume of shots for the Pistons over the course of the season.

And here is the second problem. Here is the ranking of the Pistons top volume shot takers for the season.

1. Rip Hamilton - 19.0 FGA
2. Rodney Stuckey - 16.4 FGA
3. Ben Gordon - 15.2 FGA
4. Will Bynum - 11.0 FGA
5. Tayshaun Prince - 10.3 FGA
6. Charlie Villanueva - 10.2 FGA

Here is an inherent problem with the Pistons. Rip Hamilton hasn't played most of the season, so you can really start to look at it from #2-6. Rodney Stuckey leads the Pistons in FGA per game. That is Rodney Stuckey, Mr. 42.3 TS%, taking the most shots per a game. When your leading shot taker is shooting 42.3 TS%, you're not going to be a good overall team. It's just not going to happen.

Yet even though the Pistons have been absolutely pathetic offensively outside of Gordon, Hamilton, and Ben Wallace, they still have a much better offensive efficiency than us. That is completely a result of what Ben Gordon has been doing out there on the offensive end.

The Bulls guards have also been what have been holding them out. All three of their main guards have played pathetic basketball this year.

You have Derrick Rose at 44.2 TS%, Kirk Hinrich 41.0 TS%, and John Salmons 33.9 TS%. All pathetic.

I was one of the few people who felt that Derrick Rose may never be the caliber of player that Ben Gordon is.

I was already certain that we made a mistake in choosing Kirk Hinrich over Ben Gordon. I was certain that we made a mistake in choosing John Salmons over Ben Gordon.

Now, it looks like we might have made a mistake in choosing Derrick Rose over Ben Gordon as well.

Put away the Ben Gordon glasses, Rose will be a much better player than Ben will ever be, he may not score or shoot the 3 like Ben, but he will surpass Ben in everything else.

Right now Ben is a significantly better scorer and defender than Rose. They're equal rebounders, and Rose is a significantly better passer.

Ben Gordon is a much, much better player than Derrick Rose. Right now, it's not looking good for Rose in becoming a better player than Gordon.

Your looking at Rose at his worst and BG at his best. They aren't exactly on equal ground now. One is still injured, out of shape from his injury and didn't play in the preason and the other has become the far and away number one option on offense entering his prime. Rose will surely tilt the scales and will improve off of last year.

 

[Shakes]

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

 

[Kush77]

dougthonus wrote:

It makes me sad the Bulls don't have Gordon right now. Swap out Gordon and Salmons, and the Bulls are 4-1 and looking dominant.

You're tight DT.

But the thing is it shouldn't have to be a swap. We could of had them both, with Deng. Oh well.

 

[Kush77]

Shakes wrote:

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

I wouldn't compare Rose to Darko just for the fact that Rose had a much better resume. At least Rose had a year where he almost led Memphis to the title. the Darko pick still puzzles me to this day.

 

[Shakes]

Kush77 wrote:

Shakes wrote:

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

I wouldn't compare Rose to Darko just for the fact that Rose had a much better resume. At least Rose had a year where he almost led Memphis to the title. the Darko pick still puzzles me to this day.

Oh I'm not saying Rose is going to be a Darko style bust, I just think people tend to look at the best case scenario too much and give it a far too high probability of happening. I think people need to understand Rose is probably not going to be the super-duper-star that wins you championships, even though the Bulls just have to pretend he will be and hope it works out, because they don't have any other realistic options.

 

[Kush77]

Shakes wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

Shakes wrote:

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

I wouldn't compare Rose to Darko just for the fact that Rose had a much better resume. At least Rose had a year where he almost led Memphis to the title. the Darko pick still puzzles me to this day.

Oh I'm not saying Rose is going to be a Darko style bust, I just think people tend to look at the best case scenario too much and give it a far too high probability of happening. I think people need to understand Rose is probably not going to be the super-duper-star that wins you championships, even though the Bulls just have to pretend he will be and hope it works out, because they don't have any other realistic options.

I gotcha.

Will Rose be that guy? Maybe not. We all agree that the best-case for Rose is Chris Paul. But is Chris Paul a "win you a title #1 guy"? that's not a knock really. How many of those guys are there? 3, Kobe, LeBron, Wade?

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

That would be pretty devasting to the team. BG is a very good player but this team hinges on Rose being a top 10 or 15 player.

 

[??? ??????]

Kush77 wrote:

Shakes wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

Shakes wrote:

I'm actually going to be on the BG side of this and say if I had to take a bet on who would end up having the better career at even odds my money would be on BG and not Rose. Obviously Rose's upside is higher, but that's the same talk that got Darko drafted second, so I'd stick with the money in the bank.

I wouldn't compare Rose to Darko just for the fact that Rose had a much better resume. At least Rose had a year where he almost led Memphis to the title. the Darko pick still puzzles me to this day.

Oh I'm not saying Rose is going to be a Darko style bust, I just think people tend to look at the best case scenario too much and give it a far too high probability of happening. I think people need to understand Rose is probably not going to be the super-duper-star that wins you championships, even though the Bulls just have to pretend he will be and hope it works out, because they don't have any other realistic options.

I gotcha.

Will Rose be that guy? Maybe not. We all agree that the best-case for Rose is Chris Paul. But is Chris Paul a "win you a title #1 guy"? that's not a knock really. How many of those guys are there? 3, Kobe, LeBron, Wade?

I wouldn't consider Kobe/Wade as being those guys either. Wade needed Shaq...who was still alright then. Kobe needed Gasol.

Lebron James and Dwight Howard are probably the only two players that fit that description in the NBA, and they still will need a lot of help to do it.

 

[pinkizdead]

jordon needed pippen.

no one can do it on their own.

 

[houheffna]

I agree, the best needed help, 1 on 5 doesn't win championships...

 

[Shakes]

I'm not talking about making it to the level where you can win a championship on your own, I'm talking about making it to the level where you can have a lot of help and be the team's best player. It's going to be tough for Rose to get there: he's likely never going to be an elite play maker or defender, so a lot hinges on him becoming a more efficient scorer. Unfortunately a scoring PG as the best player on the team hasn't traditionally been a winning formula.

 

[??? ??????]

houheffna wrote:

I agree, the best needed help, 1 on 5 doesn't win championships...

Don't tell Rodney Stuckey that you can't win a championship playing 1 on 5, he'll never believe you.

 

[pinkizdead]

you watch the piston games? either way, i'd rather no one tell him. i want the pistons to loose. i hope bg all the best/individual success, but eh thats about it.

 

[??? ??????]

pinkizdead wrote:

you watch the piston games? either way, i'd rather no one tell him. i want the pistons to loose. i hope bg all the best/individual success, but eh thats about it.

Stuckey is such a disgusting basketball player. All he cares about are his own shots. I think all of his assists are a result of some dumb defensive player being caught off guard that Stuckey actually passed the ball.

In last nights game against the Magic for example, there was a play where Stuckey and Gordon were in the pick and pop. Gordon sets the pick, and pops out to the three point line at the wing. Stuckey proceeds to ignore him, tries to break down the Magic defense, and by the time he is ready to give the ball to Gordon, Gordon is already covered again. It was like the perfect execution of the pick and pop by Gordon, and Stuckey didn't give him the ball for the wide open three (not that he would have hit it last night, as his jumpshot was off last night, but you still give him the ball in those situations).

When Rip Hamilton comes to the bench, I wouldn't be shocked if they send Stuckey to the bench and start Gordon and Hamilton. If Stuckey wants to just come in and jack up shots, he can do that from the instant offense sixth man guise.