Best OF of all time?

[FirstTimer]

That's the point Iam making you can't go off numbers alone. You can't say that Clemente does not belong in the class with mays he does.

Says the guy who is pointing out Clemente's 4 batting titles and 12 GG's..last I checked those are numbers.

 

[Rice Cube]

That's the point Iam making you can't go off numbers alone. You can't say that Clemente does not belong in the class with mays he does.

Both guys belong in the HOF. But Willie Mays was simply better.

 

[FirstTimer]

In a typical season, Mays would produce 63 more runs than Clemente. So, if you had a choice between two hypothetical players, which would you choose?

Player A: .317 batting average, 0 RBIs

Player B: .302 batting average, 63 RBIs

Along with this. At their peaks, in their primes Mays was a 10.9 WAR player. He went over 10 WAR an absurd 6 times.

Clemente's "peak" was 8.7.

Mays had 9 years based on WAR where he was better than Clemente's best year. Mays spent nearly half of his career being better than Clemente's best.

Why is this discussion still happening?

 

[Tazer4mvp]

Both guys belong in the HOF. But Willie Mays was simply better.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but it's always fun debating this stuff. Good times.

 

[Rice Cube]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, but it's always fun debating this stuff. Good times.

There are some things that can be debated, but this is probably not one of them :lol:

 

[FirstTimer]

There are some things that can be debated, but this is probably not one of them :lol:

Pretty much.

I think Rami has hacked Tazers account and is posting about baseball now. That's the only explanation I have for his terrible statements.

 

[Rice Cube]

Pretty much.

I think Rami has hacked Tazers account and is posting about baseball now. That's the only explanation I have for his terrible statements.

He's placing too much emphasis on the batting average and ignoring the overall achievements of both players.

 

[whitesoxman77]

He won one batting title big deal, Clemente won it 4 times...you said mays is way better right, how can you be way better than someone when they had more batting titles better career avg, won the same amount of gold gloves in less seasons...your entitled to your opinion but to make an dumbass claim saying not in the same class shows your knowledge of baseball. The fact you have to google everything you say tells me more about your baseball knowledge...

I wouldn't expect anyone to remember all of the stuff firsttimer just threw out there... just saying

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Frank Robinson dark horse for this. I don't think that he's in the ranks of guys like Ruth and Mays, but he's someone people should certainly think about.

Consistently one of the better hitting players every year with the Reds and was always up there with some great players. When he went to Baltimore, he won the triple crown. And baseball reference has him as the #18 all time hitter. And he won the MVP twice.

He's not as good as a lot of others but deserves talking. Mickey Mantle also another one that I didn't really see mentioned. Once again, not as good as Mays or Ruth. Or Bonds on steroids.

EDIT: On that same Baseball Reference list of all time great batters, Ruth is number one and Mays is number two. Dare to guess where Clemente is? Yeahh...number 23.

How many outfielders are above him? 14

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I wouldn't expect anyone to remember all of the stuff firsttimer just threw out there... just saying

There's a reason why baseball reference and google exist. And get tons of pageviews each day.

 

[Tazer4mvp]

The point is this you can just go off numbers alone a lot of factors go into those numbers, you can't just google info and say yep he is the best. If that's the case Kareem should be considered the best ever in hoops. More points and reb than Jordan...

 

[Rice Cube]

The point is this you can just go off numbers alone a lot of factors go into those numbers, you can't just google info and say yep he is the best. If that's the case Kareem should be considered the best ever in hoops. More points and reb than Jordan...

You are correct that you can't just go off numbers alone, but you have to put the numbers in context and you also have to know which numbers tell you more about the player. In today's example we've shown numerous numbers that tell you that Willie Mays is better than Roberto Clemente. I'm not entirely sure you should discount that.

 

[Tazer4mvp]

Roberto also has some things on mays as well so you can't just write that off...it would have been interesting to see Roberto numbers if they played same amount of years...

 

[Rice Cube]

Roberto also has some things on mays as well so you can't just write that off...it would have been interesting to see Roberto numbers if they played same amount of years...

If you had a chance to look at the links for both players' stats, it would have taken a miracle for Clemente to match Mays' numbers :lol:

 

[Tazer4mvp]

Career statistics
Batting average** **.317
Hits** **3,000
Home runs** **240
Runs batted in** **1,305
Teams
Pittsburgh Pirates (1955–1972)

Mays

Batting average** **.302
Home runs** **660
Hits** **3,283
Runs batted in** **1,903
Teams
Like I said minus HR not that far apart considering mays played 22season to Celmente 18

 

[inactiveuser1]

But we would all agree that vanilla is the best ice cream flavor, and you would say that mint chocolate chip is better because its green.

Chocolate is the way to go

 

[Rice Cube]

You're fixated on the numbers that don't actually matter that much except in the box score. If you built a team, very few people would choose Clemente over Mays. Not a knock on Clemente by any stretch. If you looked at their average seasons as we've outlined, it is pretty clear who is better.

 

[dabynsky]

Career statistics
Batting average** **.317
Hits** **3,000
Home runs** **240
Runs batted in** **1,305
Teams
Pittsburgh Pirates (1955–1972)

Mays

Batting average** **.302
Home runs** **660
Hits** **3,283
Runs batted in** **1,903
Teams
Like I said minus HR not that far apart considering mays played 22season to Celmente 18

You really think four non peak seasons from Clemente would have dented that 420 difference in homeruns?

 

[brett05]

Doesn't it start and end with Ruth?

 

[Rice Cube]

Should be looking at times on base.