Biggest Loss for the Bulls?

[Crystallas]

James Jordan = Biggest loss to the Bulls.

 

[tbo41fan]

Pargo...definately

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I don't understand why people miss Ben Gordon so much... people should just be happy he's there helping to eat up the Pistons' pay-roll for the next several years-to-come. The Bulls' would have ended up paying him way too much for a guy who was bad at finishing around the rim, bad at drawing contact, not a very good passer, and was a poor defender.

As for Hinrich, he was way overpaid... but to say that he was a chucker isn't true. He wasn't afraid to take open three's when the defense gave them to him. Brewer is a bad shooter who turns down open shots and sometimes hurts the offense. Though, I like Brewer's athleticism and how he attacks the basket (and length on D), I still believe Hinrich was the better player and defender.

Though, when you consder the price for Brewer and that for Hinrich... it wasn't even a choice.

 

[JCM]

James Jordan = Biggest loss to the Bulls.

this also.

 

[TheStig]

I don't understand why people miss Ben Gordon so much... people should just be happy he's there helping to eat up the Pistons' pay-roll for the next several years-to-come. The Bulls' would have ended up paying him way too much for a guy who was bad at finishing around the rim, bad at drawing contact, not a very good passer, and was a poor defender.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. BG drew the most fouls on our team when he was here. So he wasn't bad a t drawing contact. He also wasn't a poor defender. Please tell me when he got lit up his last year here? So far xfactor only found 1 out of 89 games that year. In which he was playing injured and against a star guard. Thats pretty good. He was really an average defender the last couple of years here.

Outside of last year he only missed 12 games for his career and was a career 40+% three point shooter. He could have been a very nice third option here to stretch the floor.

People talk about his big contract with Detroit but we pulled the offer off the table he was going to sign for a deal that would have payed him 25% less. BG at 9 mill is a good deal. At 12, its a bit high but not terrible. There aren't many 20ppg scorers that make less.

 

[X]

Yes, BG had a torn hamstring for half the series. Kinda hard to run around screens when your injured. But you did find one game where BG got lit up. Of course Allen lit up the defensive greatness of Kirk too. But out of 89 games that year. I'd consider it fairly good that he only got lit up once. And Rondo was mainly guarded by Rose, so I'd hold BG responsible for Allen. But while you cite the 51 point game, what about game one where BG held Allen to 1 for 12 shooting and 4 pts or game 5 with 3/8 and 10 points. Not to mention the first few games after kirk got injured that i showed you earlier. 1 out 89 is pretty good for a horrible defender. Especially considering kirk couldn't slow him down either.

I'm not saying BG is a complete player. He has flaws. But he isn't a defensive liability or a one trick pony. If he was, he'd have never put up over 20 ppg and would get killed defensively more often than not. He is what he is, a good scorer and average defender. He doesn't create for others, he is never gonna make a all defensive team or kill you defensively. He is a good player, I'd have not problem having him here on his current deal. He'd be an excellent third option and guy to stretch the floor.

So - fair to assume you want me to consider the SG against him?

 

[X]

Oct 28, 2008 - Michael Redd - 30 points
Nov 11, 2008 - Joe Johnson - 17 points, 8 assists
Nov 18, 2008 - Kobe Bryant - 21 points, 6 assists, 5 boards
Nov 19, 2008 - Brandon Roy - 20 points, 5 boards
Nov 21, 2008 - Stephen Jackson - 32 points, 6 assists
Nov 24, 2008 - Ronnie Brewer - 18 points, 3 assists, 3 steals (Gordon, 15 points, 3 assists, 0 steals)

That's just from the first 15 games of the season.

 

[Scout200]

Game wise? Losing players? What exactly are we talking here?

I was thinking more game wise, but players can be mentioned too...

 

[Kush77]

I liked Ben Gordon.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. BG drew the most fouls on our team when he was here. So he wasn't bad a t drawing contact. He also wasn't a poor defender. Please tell me when he got lit up his last year here? So far xfactor only found 1 out of 89 games that year. In which he was playing injured and against a star guard. Thats pretty good. He was really an average defender the last couple of years here.

Outside of last year he only missed 12 games for his career and was a career 40+% three point shooter. He could have been a very nice third option here to stretch the floor.

People talk about his big contract with Detroit but we pulled the offer off the table he was going to sign for a deal that would have payed him 25% less. BG at 9 mill is a good deal. At 12, its a bit high but not terrible. There aren't many 20ppg scorers that make less.

most of the years Ben Gordon was here.. our 2 next best scorers were Deng and Hinrich... of course he drew the most fouls.

Gordon was a 14 pt scorer last year... and of course he would have signed with the Bulls for less... Chicago is a way better place to play/live than Detroit.

And even if BG was worth that 9M a year (which he was not), the Bulls couldnt do it because they needed to take their chances in free-agency for this past summer.

Having BG really hindered Derrick Rose's touches and our backcourt defense. I am glad he's gone.

 

[pinkizdead]

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. BG drew the most fouls on our team when he was here. So he wasn't bad a t drawing contact. He also wasn't a poor defender. Please tell me when he got lit up his last year here? So far xfactor only found 1 out of 89 games that year. In which he was playing injured and against a star guard. Thats pretty good. He was really an average defender the last couple of years here.

Outside of last year he only missed 12 games for his career and was a career 40+% three point shooter. He could have been a very nice third option here to stretch the floor.

People talk about his big contract with Detroit but we pulled the offer off the table he was going to sign for a deal that would have payed him 25% less. BG at 9 mill is a good deal. At 12, its a bit high but not terrible. There aren't many 20ppg scorers that make less.

i agree with it all.

 

[Dpauley23]

most of the years Ben Gordon was here.. our 2 next best scorers were Deng and Hinrich... of course he drew the most fouls.

Gordon was a 14 pt scorer last year... and of course he would have signed with the Bulls for less... Chicago is a way better place to play/live than Detroit.

And even if BG was worth that 9M a year (which he was not), the Bulls couldnt do it because they needed to take their chances in free-agency for this past summer.

Having BG really hindered Derrick Rose's touches and our backcourt defense. I am glad he's gone.

I don't really get how you can say a guy who scored 18 ppg is not worth 9 million. Gordon's a top 10 sg in this league when healthy. I would love to him on this team. As for taking their chances they could of easily traded Hinrich to the Celtics at the deadline to the Timberwolves for expirings and kept Deng. Most people in the organization liked Hinrich over Gordon. Paxson didn't, but he could overcome those odds. It's one of the reasons he stepped down. Sick of getting overruled by Reinsdorf. As for hindering Rose's touches, I don't get this arguement since no one said this about Salmons. Here's a fact Salmons was more of a iso player than Gordon ever was by a decent amount

 

[Bullseye Mark]

Are you serious? Ever hear of Elton Brand? Horace Grant?

Brand...I'll accept the argument. Horace!?!?!?!...come on!!!

 

[Bullseye Mark]

Where was the drop off when we lost BG? There wasn't any...at all...Who did BG shut down defensively? no one...ever.

Look, I like bg...I'm just glad we didn't give him a big contract...that's all I said.

We had the same record last year with a MUCH MUCH MUCH better Rose (not even close) and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better Noah AND Luol Deng. The team the year before was much less talented in the front court and was MUCH worse defensively. Had you paired Ben with Noah/Rose (of last year) and Deng, we win 55 games last year.

 

[X]

We had the same record last year with a MUCH MUCH MUCH better Rose (not even close) and a MUCH MUCH MUCH better Noah AND Luol Deng. The team the year before was much less talented in the front court and was MUCH worse defensively. Had you paired Ben with Noah/Rose (of last year) and Deng, we win 55 games last year.

Noah played 16 fewer games last year than the year before...and although Lu played more games than normal, his 3%, FT%, Steals, TOs were all worse than the year before...

 

[pinkizdead]

JESUS CRAP ARE ARE YOU KIDDING ARE YOU HIGH?
NO DROP OFF FROM LAST YEAR?
SERIOUSLY?


deng was back, salmons was back, noah improved tremendously, miller was there, rose improved tremendously.

Are you serious no drop off? We had the best back courts in the league to weakest backcourts in the league. Noah became our second best player at times, he also became the second option on offense in the playoffs in a game. There is no way in hell noah should be your second option offensively.

oh yeah, we went from an elite 3pt shooting team to a piece of garbage 3pt team

i guess i see what oyur saying. no drop off.

did you even watch a game this yeaR?

 

[X]

JESUS CRAP ARE ARE YOU KIDDING ARE YOU HIGH?
NO DROP OFF FROM LAST YEAR?
SERIOUSLY?


deng was back, salmons was back, noah improved tremendously, miller was there, rose improved tremendously.

Are you serious no drop off? We had the best back courts in the league to weakest backcourts in the league. Noah became our second best player at times, he also became the second option on offense in the playoffs in a game. There is no way in hell noah should be your second option offensively.

oh yeah, we went from an elite 3pt shooting team to a piece of garbage 3pt team

i guess i see what oyur saying. no drop off.

did you even watch a game this yeaR?

We were BETTER DEFENSIVELY...and it wasn't even close. We went from 21st in PPG allowed to 13th...Our record was the same even tho the East was stronger...And the differential between PPG and PPG allowed favors the 2010 team...but yeah...WE DIDN'T SHOOT TEH THREEZ! ZOMG.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I don't really get how you can say a guy who scored 18 ppg is not worth 9 million. Gordon's a top 10 sg in this league when healthy. I would love to him on this team. As for taking their chances they could of easily traded Hinrich to the Celtics at the deadline to the Timberwolves for expirings and kept Deng. Most people in the organization liked Hinrich over Gordon. Paxson didn't, but he could overcome those odds. It's one of the reasons he stepped down. Sick of getting overruled by Reinsdorf. As for hindering Rose's touches, I don't get this arguement since no one said this about Salmons. Here's a fact Salmons was more of a iso player than Gordon ever was by a decent amount

Gordon is not a top 10 SG nor ever has been... Bryant, Wade, Roy, Johnson, Ginobili, Mayo, Evans, Stephen Jackson, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Monta Ellis <- 11 guys right there who are hands-down better. Not to mention guys like Jason Richardson, Jamal Crawford, Kevin Martin, Jason Terry, Eric Gordon, J.R. Smith, Rudy Fernandez, and Michael Redd (all probably better too). When you are paying a guy 9M a year, you can assume that he is going to demand touches and minutes. By the end of Salmons' time with the Bulls, he was getting maybe a little over 30 minutes per game - the majority of the time with the 2nd unit. The Bulls always ran just as many iso plays for BG as they did Salmons... and Salmons was a better iso guy than Gordon. I'm not saying I was in-love with Salmons either, but he wasn't hindering the Bulls' pay-roll. Gordon would have been right now if they had re-signed him. They were right to keep Hinrich and get rid of Gordon. He made a few clutch shots against a depleted Celtics team in 2009 and all of the sudden, a ton of fans simply forgot why this guy was so bad for this team.

It's not like he would have been coming off-the-bench for about 20-25 min/game for 6-7M... he was going to start (or at least get very good playing-time) for 9M. That is not a smart move for a team that is trying to win a championship in the near future, and I applaud the Bulls for cutting him lose. By doing so, they gave themselves a chance to strikegold in Free-agency, and gave DET the chance to put themselves in cap-hell. :clap:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Brand...I'll accept the argument. Horace!?!?!?!...come on!!!

1993-94 Horace Grant > 2009-future Ben Gordon.

 

[pinkizdead]

Gordon is not a top 10 SG nor ever has been... Bryant, Wade, Roy, Johnson, Ginobili, Mayo, Evans, Stephen Jackson, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Monta Ellis <- 11 guys right there who are hands-down better. Not to mention guys like Jason Richardson, Jamal Crawford, and Michael Redd (all probably better too). When you are paying a guy 9M a year, you can assume that he is going to demand touches and minutes. By the end of Salmons time with the Bulls, he was getting maybe a little over 30 minutes per game - the majority of the time with the 2nd unit. I'm not saying I was in-love with Salmons either, but he wasn't hindering the Bulls' pay-roll. Gordon would have been right now if they had re-signed him. They were right to keep Hinrich and get rid of Gordon. He made a few clutch shots against a depleted Celtics team in 2009 and all of the sudden, a ton of fans simply forgot why this guy was so bad for this team.

It's not like he would have been coming off-the-bench for about 20-25 min/game for 6-7M... he was going to start (or at least get very good playing-time) for 9M. That is not a smart move for a team that is trying to win a championship in the near future, and I applaud the Bulls for cutting him lose. By doing so, they gave themselves a chance to strikegold in Free-agency, and gave DET the chance to put themselves in cap-hell. :clap:

seriously joe johnson? he's worse than gordon in every statistic, plus he's worse defensively and a bigger chucker. monte ellis, really? he plays worse defense than gordon, and he's a terrible shooter.

in what way is mayo better than gordon?

Right to keep hinrich? seriously, i dont buy that argument what so ever.

michael redd, crawford, better than gordon? do you watch basketball?


frankly, i'm terrified that you're writing for the bulls.