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I never say fail... but FAIL. You were wrong about everything you said up there.
I never say fail... but FAIL. You were wrong about everything you said up there.
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And to say
'oh he averaged 18 points... how is he not worth 9M'
is pretty crazy to me... I'm glad you aren't the Bulls' GM...
how about because he hovered around 40-41% from the field to get those mere 18 points-per-game? That is reason enough in-itself. Ben Gordon should have been in a less ball-dominant role with the Bulls, seeing as they had a player like Derrick Rose. It was Ben Gordon who cost the Bulls Game 7 of that 2009 Series with Boston because of his terrible shot-selection. He should have been playing off-the-ball instead of trying to create his own shot at 6'3'' or under... he was very subpar at adjusting to contact, as well.
Rip Hamilton would run along the perimeter, and the baseline on back-screens, to give Chauncey Billups complete decision-making ability in the half-court offense. Ben Gordon simply was too ball-domineering. And he was not good or smart enough to demand that big of a contract... no team is going to win a championship with BG on the roster if he is playing over 25 minutes-per-game... nobody.
'oh he averaged 18 points... how is he not worth 9M'
is pretty crazy to me... I'm glad you aren't the Bulls' GM...
how about because he hovered around 40-41% from the field to get those mere 18 points-per-game? That is reason enough in-itself. Ben Gordon should have been in a less ball-dominant role with the Bulls, seeing as they had a player like Derrick Rose. It was Ben Gordon who cost the Bulls Game 7 of that 2009 Series with Boston because of his terrible shot-selection. He should have been playing off-the-ball instead of trying to create his own shot at 6'3'' or under... he was very subpar at adjusting to contact, as well.
Rip Hamilton would run along the perimeter, and the baseline on back-screens, to give Chauncey Billups complete decision-making ability in the half-court offense. Ben Gordon simply was too ball-domineering. And he was not good or smart enough to demand that big of a contract... no team is going to win a championship with BG on the roster if he is playing over 25 minutes-per-game... nobody.
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For their careers...
FG%
JJ -- %44.3
BG -- %43.5
RPG
JJ -- 4.2
BG -- 2.9
APG
JJ --4.5
BG -- 3.0
SPG
JJ -- 1.0
BG -- 0.8
TOPG
JJ -- 2.2
BG -- 2.4
Yup, I see your point.
I'm just glad you check your stats before you post 'em
pinkizdead
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and here we go!
Joe johnson save for one year, has shot 35-38% from the 3pt line. 1 year in pheonix he shot 40%. His career average is 37% which coincidentally is also what he's shooting this year. Last years percentage was 36. He's not a great shooter. More than anything he's not a catch and shoot, shooter. he's more of an isolation kinda guy.
On the other hand, ben gordon has gone below 40% shooting ONCE in his career. it's this year in detriot. This year has been the worst year BG has shot from the 3pt line. IT"S THE VERY WORST! HE HAS BEEN SHOOTING! with that said, he's shooting at 38%. Yeup. BG at his worst is better from JJ at his best at the 3 pt line. Also, he can catch and shoot.
Derrick rose likes to run. this is a running team. we're great on a fast break. JJ is an older player. towards the end of his huge contract, he's going to look really bad. really bad. Here's why. How man shooting guards do you know that are 245 lbs? I know of only one. JJ. Yeah, he has a great post up game, but how good is a 250lb shooting guard going to look at 32? Age creeps up on us all, and i'm not sure JJ will be able to play the sg position later in his career. The speed of the game is getting quicker and quicker, and JJ will just get slower and slower. his size isn't helping him.
i'd rather have gordon's speed than johnson's strength. Have i mentioned gordon is younger than johnson?
On the other hand, JJ is averaging 4.6 rbs to gordon's 2.9. Cause that's what you really want from your guards. rebounding.
To boot johnson is a better ball handler than gordon. he averages two fewer turn overs per game than gordon.
JJ is averaging 1.3 more assists per game than gordon. i'm not sure if that's more or less impressive given atlanta's tendency for isolation offense. Also if you look at gordon's only year playing with rose, he did average 1.5 more assists per game for the season.
Furthermore JJ's getting you 2 extra ppg. Although his career number is 18ppg, it'd be more legitimate to consider it to be 20ppg. BG gives you 18 ppg. I'm not sure who i would give more credit to. BG has been the focus of a terrible offensive system. He's taken more difficult/clutch shots. MORE IMPORTANTLY! bg wasn't always playing starters minutes. he's often been asked to come off the bench.
Besides this year, in which johnson is shooting 46% from the field, johnson hovers betwen 44-45%. his career average is 44%. On the other hand ben gordon gives you: 43% for his career shooting percentage. YES, that number includes his absolutely awful year in Detroit. Interestinglty gordon shot 42@ twice. This year and the year the team broke down. he shot 41% his rookie year. Asides from that his range has been 43% -45%.
However, gordon is a better ft shooter.
his rookie year he shot 90 more ft's than johnson at : 86% to johnson 75%
SADLY, in o5/06 Johnson shot 60 more ft's than gordon. Also he shot 79% to ... sadly gordon was at a carreer low with 78% yeup. career low of 78%
in 06/-07 gordon shot 126 more ft's than johson. he shot them at a thunderous 86%!!!!! johnson shot 74. yeah.. seeing a trend?
In 07/08 Gordon was money at the line. he shot 90%!!!!! Johnson shot 83%. Sadly he shot 86 more free throws that year. Have i mentioned johnson plays 10 minutes more per game than gordon? Also he's handling the ball more than gordon? hmm. i guess i should have. not only does it explain the small dip, it also amplifies how much better gordon is at getting to the line.
In o8/09 Gordon made 20 more free throws than johnson. He shot 86%, and johnson shot 82%.
Since gordon plays 10 entire minutes less, that's practically an entire quarter(!!!!!), than johnson; and he's a better shooter than johnson at the line, i'm declaring gordon the hands down better player at generating fouls. More importantly, in spite of few minutes, from the day that gordon came into the nba, johnson has been to the line more often ONLY for 2 seasons in his career.
Here's an interesting fact, after coming over from Phoenix, Johnson's team has made the playoffs twice! Since gordon was playing for the bulls, the bulls missed the playoffs once. we got rose that year.
since he's come to atlanta. JJ has made it the playoffs twice. In o7/08 he gave 20 ppg of 40% shooting. 44% behind the arc.
Obviously the bulls didnt make the playoffs that year. the year before the bulls made it to the second round. !!! Gordon scored 20.4 ppg at 41% fg% and shooting 43% behind the arc.
In fact ben gordon has been playing this way for a while now. BG in his second year in the league, 05/06, he shot 40% fg% 36% from the 3, but he scored 21 ppg. Both their rookie playoff years were rather terrible (in spite of that ben gordon's was significantly better. 40% v 27%. In spite of the fact that gordon played few minutes than johnson, and was still a rookie. i believe johnson was in his second/third year in the nba. )
But enough of the past, lets get to the latest playoff games. Keep in mind that Gordon was injured during the playoff series against the celtics. Last year johnson averaged 16.4 ppg at 40% shooting and 33% from the 3pt line. he shot 66% from the free throw line. that's really really really bad. In fact everyear except 04/05 johnson has shot below 69% from the free throw line. WHAT THE CRAP!!!!! last year he has 2.9 turn overs per game
on the other hand gordon took a bit of a dip in terms of efficiency, but a lot of that was the injury. he scored 24ppg on 38% fg% while shooting 37% from the 3pt line. he shot 85% from the ft line. in fact for the past couple years in the playoffs gordon's worse performance from the line was 25-36. Gordons usually money from the line during the playoffs. In o4/05 he shot 20-25, 06-07 he shot 58-63 last year he shot 49- 56. conversely johnson was 12-35.
Joe johnson save for one year, has shot 35-38% from the 3pt line. 1 year in pheonix he shot 40%. His career average is 37% which coincidentally is also what he's shooting this year. Last years percentage was 36. He's not a great shooter. More than anything he's not a catch and shoot, shooter. he's more of an isolation kinda guy.
On the other hand, ben gordon has gone below 40% shooting ONCE in his career. it's this year in detriot. This year has been the worst year BG has shot from the 3pt line. IT"S THE VERY WORST! HE HAS BEEN SHOOTING! with that said, he's shooting at 38%. Yeup. BG at his worst is better from JJ at his best at the 3 pt line. Also, he can catch and shoot.
Derrick rose likes to run. this is a running team. we're great on a fast break. JJ is an older player. towards the end of his huge contract, he's going to look really bad. really bad. Here's why. How man shooting guards do you know that are 245 lbs? I know of only one. JJ. Yeah, he has a great post up game, but how good is a 250lb shooting guard going to look at 32? Age creeps up on us all, and i'm not sure JJ will be able to play the sg position later in his career. The speed of the game is getting quicker and quicker, and JJ will just get slower and slower. his size isn't helping him.
i'd rather have gordon's speed than johnson's strength. Have i mentioned gordon is younger than johnson?
On the other hand, JJ is averaging 4.6 rbs to gordon's 2.9. Cause that's what you really want from your guards. rebounding.
To boot johnson is a better ball handler than gordon. he averages two fewer turn overs per game than gordon.
JJ is averaging 1.3 more assists per game than gordon. i'm not sure if that's more or less impressive given atlanta's tendency for isolation offense. Also if you look at gordon's only year playing with rose, he did average 1.5 more assists per game for the season.
Furthermore JJ's getting you 2 extra ppg. Although his career number is 18ppg, it'd be more legitimate to consider it to be 20ppg. BG gives you 18 ppg. I'm not sure who i would give more credit to. BG has been the focus of a terrible offensive system. He's taken more difficult/clutch shots. MORE IMPORTANTLY! bg wasn't always playing starters minutes. he's often been asked to come off the bench.
Besides this year, in which johnson is shooting 46% from the field, johnson hovers betwen 44-45%. his career average is 44%. On the other hand ben gordon gives you: 43% for his career shooting percentage. YES, that number includes his absolutely awful year in Detroit. Interestinglty gordon shot 42@ twice. This year and the year the team broke down. he shot 41% his rookie year. Asides from that his range has been 43% -45%.
However, gordon is a better ft shooter.
his rookie year he shot 90 more ft's than johnson at : 86% to johnson 75%
SADLY, in o5/06 Johnson shot 60 more ft's than gordon. Also he shot 79% to ... sadly gordon was at a carreer low with 78% yeup. career low of 78%
in 06/-07 gordon shot 126 more ft's than johson. he shot them at a thunderous 86%!!!!! johnson shot 74. yeah.. seeing a trend?
In 07/08 Gordon was money at the line. he shot 90%!!!!! Johnson shot 83%. Sadly he shot 86 more free throws that year. Have i mentioned johnson plays 10 minutes more per game than gordon? Also he's handling the ball more than gordon? hmm. i guess i should have. not only does it explain the small dip, it also amplifies how much better gordon is at getting to the line.
In o8/09 Gordon made 20 more free throws than johnson. He shot 86%, and johnson shot 82%.
Since gordon plays 10 entire minutes less, that's practically an entire quarter(!!!!!), than johnson; and he's a better shooter than johnson at the line, i'm declaring gordon the hands down better player at generating fouls. More importantly, in spite of few minutes, from the day that gordon came into the nba, johnson has been to the line more often ONLY for 2 seasons in his career.
Here's an interesting fact, after coming over from Phoenix, Johnson's team has made the playoffs twice! Since gordon was playing for the bulls, the bulls missed the playoffs once. we got rose that year.
since he's come to atlanta. JJ has made it the playoffs twice. In o7/08 he gave 20 ppg of 40% shooting. 44% behind the arc.
Obviously the bulls didnt make the playoffs that year. the year before the bulls made it to the second round. !!! Gordon scored 20.4 ppg at 41% fg% and shooting 43% behind the arc.
In fact ben gordon has been playing this way for a while now. BG in his second year in the league, 05/06, he shot 40% fg% 36% from the 3, but he scored 21 ppg. Both their rookie playoff years were rather terrible (in spite of that ben gordon's was significantly better. 40% v 27%. In spite of the fact that gordon played few minutes than johnson, and was still a rookie. i believe johnson was in his second/third year in the nba. )
But enough of the past, lets get to the latest playoff games. Keep in mind that Gordon was injured during the playoff series against the celtics. Last year johnson averaged 16.4 ppg at 40% shooting and 33% from the 3pt line. he shot 66% from the free throw line. that's really really really bad. In fact everyear except 04/05 johnson has shot below 69% from the free throw line. WHAT THE CRAP!!!!! last year he has 2.9 turn overs per game
on the other hand gordon took a bit of a dip in terms of efficiency, but a lot of that was the injury. he scored 24ppg on 38% fg% while shooting 37% from the 3pt line. he shot 85% from the ft line. in fact for the past couple years in the playoffs gordon's worse performance from the line was 25-36. Gordons usually money from the line during the playoffs. In o4/05 he shot 20-25, 06-07 he shot 58-63 last year he shot 49- 56. conversely johnson was 12-35.
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He went 7-23 in that game.
pinkizdead
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despite the fact that johnson's team made it to the second round, they played 4 more games than the bulls. Jonhson only scored 10 more points last season than gordon. Johnson had 180 pts in a total of 428 minutes.
Ben gordon had 170 pts in 304 minutes.
oh this is from the boston celtics series.
in the playoffs Joe johnson lays and egg.
it's a fact.
Ben gordon had 170 pts in 304 minutes.
oh this is from the boston celtics series.
in the playoffs Joe johnson lays and egg.
it's a fact.
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Pink, the mere fact that you are attempting to make a case for Ben Gordon over Joe Johnson is hilarious... there is one thing BG does better than Joe Johnson, and that is pure shooting (assuming both are absolutely wide-open). And the best part is that Joe Johnson is one of the best in the league at pure-shooting too!
I'm sorry... but that is ridiculous.
I'm sorry... but that is ridiculous.
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what the hell are you talking about...Ben Gordon averaged 14 PPG this year...and 20 last year compared to JJ who has averaged consistently around 21-25 PPG the last 5 years...JJ had a FG percentage of 46 % last year which is pretty good for a proclaimed "chucker"..ben gordon shot 41% ...ill give you that ben is a good 3 point shooter..but JJ has a big height advantage and averages significantly more rebounds and assists than Ben did or has ever done....JJ's defense isnt great but it's honestly better than Gordon's
let's see first of all learn how to spell...second of all monta is a much better scorer than Gordon....outside shooting is not his forte but he's great at attacking and gets alot of layups in a fast paced offense....ellis is also a better rebounder and gets 5+ assists....Ben is a fantastic shooter and scorer but tbh he really doesnt have that much besides that....he doesnt have many dimensions to his game
i agree here...mayo is not better than gordon...although detroit gordon was god awful...so idk
The bulls could have used him right now...getting rid of kinrich doesnt make the team better and the bulls did it because they didnt like his contract and wanted to free up space for FA....well plan A didnt exactly work and the Bulls had plenty of money left....you get Brewer and Hinrich to split minutes you're pretty set at SG imo
do you?????
i love it how you label all these guys as one dimensional chuckers but THATS WHAT BEN GORDON FREAKING WAS....it's the reason why's he so short yet he is playing SG in the NBA...
i'd say crawford is a better player than gordon right now...and if he wasnt on a hawks team where he isnt a top option...i'd say he'd average better numbers PPG wise....Michael Redd? Are you serious?
frankly,i'm terrified you're on this site
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Dpauley23
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I don't know what your talking about Gordon's fg percentage since he's mainly been around 44 percentage. You must be talking about the greatest player ever in Gordon. All the Gordon haters ever do is talk about his bad games. How about the shot in game 4. His magical performance in game 2. I want you to recall the beginning of game 7 to when he was keeping them in the game while everyone else was struggling. I guess you don't like scoring though. That's alright. There has to be people who like above-average, scrappy defense players who suck at shooting and choking all the time (see game 6 when he blew a freaking wide open layup)
Dpauley23
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Harry Teinowitz is that you?
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I want you to recall every minute after the 8th one of that game, where he went something like 4-25 from the field. You say all we remember are his bad performances...you only seem to remember his good ones...down to "the beginning of the game"...
Dpauley23
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Ya I remember more of good ones since they were way more than bad ones. Just doesn't make since why most people wouldn't want more talent. If you rather have CJ Watson and Kyle Korver than Ben Gordon then there's something wrong with you
pinkizdead
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Well I'm glad to see that the drone army is alive and well.
Since you've pissed me off, i should start off by saying, ellipses are used for quotes. Also your anarchistic use of capitalization is stunning. They are not used for pauses. If we're really going to attack grammar and spelling, i suppose that i should point that out. After all we should bring our "A-game" to the forums, right? dick.
significantly more rebounds? for his height and 240 lbs of crap, he should be averaging significantly more than ben gordon.
More importantly, the height advantage argument is completely Special person. Ben gordon could run circles around joe johnson. Joe Johnson has the athleticism and speed of Luol Deng. He's a 240 lb shooting guard. Do you often see 240 lb sg's? If you're schooled in the platonic method, you ought to see where I'm going.
In what way is his defense better than gordon's? Is it he steals? his inability to stay in front of his man?
hinrich is the worst sg the bulls have ever had. If you want hinrich back, there is nothing left to talk about.
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Ben Gordon would have like 3 really bad shooting games followed by 1 amazing one against a lousy defensive team or lousy defender (i.e. Ray Allen).
As for your last point... I have no clue who/what/when you are talking about...
Dpauley23
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I'm sure they'll be there to give Hinrich one hell of applause too
pinkizdead
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you mean after he got injured? Yeah, turns out when the celtics are throwing out double teams at the 3 pt line, and you're nursing an injury to your leg, your shooting is a bit off.
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If you want the ball out of Rose's hands and in Gordon's, which is where he would demand it be...so he could jack up 23+ shots a game...there's something wrong with you. This isn't just taking out Gordon and put Korver and Watson in his place...surely you understand that.
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then quit fucking shooting.
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:smh:
so... you think that BG>JJ and you are gonna throw a hissy fit because nobody agrees with you? You have way too much love for BG. JJ is "240-lbs of crap?" Let's see what happens to BG if he was going to be forced to defend him in the post.
And you actually brought the age argument up... JJ is not that athletic of a player... he's just very VERY skilled. Hell, BG isn't much more athletic than JJ anyway...
JJ will be > BG til the day they both die.
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this^