BREAKING: Blackhawks to hold briefing on Jenner & Block investigation

MassHavoc

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Yeah. Two million dollars is half a days work for Wirtz distribution or the 100 level for one home game. It’s nothing.

But, somebody on Reddit made an interesting find;

Thru this entire report, not once is Wirtz put in a bad light. He comes across more as a victim himself to the underlings beneath him.

If that was the intention of the Hawks doing this, they did a great job, who am I kidding, of course that’s why they did this.

If elder Bowman is still on the payroll I’m sure the plan is to let this play out then put Stan back at the helm, especially if they don’t go out and get an actual NHL guy
At the end of the day the person paying Jenner and Block is still Danny and Rocky. That's the best part about independence investigations. It doesn't how much they reveal they still seem to never bite the hand that feeds them.
 
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MassHavoc

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After seeing Dollar Bill keep Pully around for so long, I don’t put anything past a Wirtz.

Come to think of it… is Pully still alive?

There’s your new GM
He's going to call his pal Jerry for a GarPax reference.
 

MassHavoc

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If I'm not mistaken, I believge Bettman said something to the effect that those listed in the report for the 'hawks (no word yet on Chevy or Q) are disallowed from working for the NHL until they have an interview with him and it is ascertained exactly what role they will have.

Now I'm not a Bettman fan, but as I've said before I don't trust executives and I feel like that will always do things in self-serving interests. Given the social climate these days especially when it comes to sex abuse, I have a good feeling that it will be YEARS before he gets hired on with some team--maybe forever. If Bettman gets known as the commissioner who let people who knowingly covered up a sex abuse scandal back in the NHL? Yeah, his ass would be battered and fried. He's going to let this die down--no matter what the Wirtzes and Daddy Dearest think.

In fact, I'm guessing this is a perfect time for Scotty to fade away.

Aww hell no.

My opinion is that they think they are infallible (like the Catholics--except the Catholics aren't but we all know they like to think they are). They think that if they showed that they screwed up that they think people won't resect them because they let the screw up happen. Of course for any reasonable person, that's not the case. a reasonable person knows fuckups happen and bad apples happen, and sometimes how you address the fuckup is more important than the fuckup itself.
For me it's this but also the more simple reason. If McDick was too scared to rock the chemistry during the cup run by the time Brad was....err resigned, they were already in full cup next year mode. He didn't want this hanging over the team and doing anything to affect the prime or the organization and winning. Easier to just win now and sort it all out later or hope it goes away.
 

DaHawkz24

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I read the full report. Obviously the brass should have acted immediately by at least putting Aldrich on leave and investigating, BUT could they really go to police?

It seems like Jon Doe only told anyone with the Blackhawks that Aldrich was sexually harassing him, threatening his career, but did not tell them about actual assault.

The other Black Ace that was mentioned seemed to deny everything even though his friend in management was the first one to tell anyone about inapropriate texts.

I also believe that if all of this happened after other scandals like Penn State that it would have been treated different.

It does seem that Aldrich never used the Blackhawks or got any recomendations from the Blackhawks. His dad with San Jose, family with the high school, and past employment with Notre Dame seem to have allowed him to keep working.

The Hawks brass acted negligent because they felt, "Ok this guy might be a creep, but Jon Doe is an adult who can handle himself for now until we win the Cup"

I also assume that Notre Dame (no cooperation with investigation), Miami Ohio, and possibly more organizations acted the same as the Blackhawks. We already know he did this at Miami Ohio and worse the High School.

Edit: quick Google search shows Miami Ohio assaults before the High schooler. No one was putting anything on this guys record as a red flag.
 
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wonky73

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My opinion is that they think they are infallible (like the Catholics--except the Catholics aren't but we all know they like to think they are).
REminds me of an old joke. Which as a Catholic I can tell.

A guy dies and goes to heaven. He's being shown around heaven by an angel and there are groups of people all over the place. Over here are the baptists. That group is the Lutherans. The Buddhists hang out around those trees. That hazy section is for the Rastafarians. The Muslims are up on that hill.
As they are walking around they come across a big wall. "Who's behind that wall?", the guy asks.
"Oh those are the Catholics. They like to think they are up here alone."
 

MassHavoc

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I read the full report. Obviously the brass should have acted immediately by at least putting Aldrich on leave and investigating, BUT could they really go to police?

It seems like Jon Doe only told anyone with the Blackhawks that Aldrich was sexually harassing him, threatening his career, but did not tell them about actual assault.

The other Black Ace that was mentioned seemed to deny everything even though his friend in management was the first one to tell anyone about inapropriate texts.

I also believe that if all of this happened after other scandals like Penn State that it would have been treated different.

It does seem that Aldrich never used the Blackhawks or got any recomendations from the Blackhawks. His dad with San Jose, family with the high school, and past employment with Notre Dame seem to have allowed him to keep working.

The Hawks brass acted negligent because they felt, "Ok this guy might be a creep, but Jon Doe is an adult who can handle himself for now until we win the Cup"

I also assume that Notre Dame (no cooperation with investigation), Miami Ohio, and possibly more organizations acted the same as the Blackhawks. We already know he did this at Miami Ohio and worse the High School.

Edit: quick Google search shows Miami Ohio assaults before the High schooler. No one was putting anything on this guys record as a red flag.
No.

Yes they could go to the police. But more importantly they are obligated by law to fully investigate any such claims which would have led to a police investigation but they failed that and let him walk with no repercussions.

Are you as a person required to go to the police or investigate everything you hear. No. But an organization is liable for the activity of their employees especially while in the workplace and with other employees. Dept of labor takes this seriously and has laws for just this thing that businesses must abide and directors of fucking HR should know.

I do agree though that it's hard to frame your mind around this from 14 years ago. But laws still existed back then even if they weren't taken as seriously. Plus it was specifically stated they too inaction purposefully because they didn't want to rock team chemistry which directly lead to another incident. That's beyond negligence and into criminal in my book especially when you let him walk which is again more negligence and lead to more incidents. It could be argued that the Hawks enabled his behavior through inaction further boosting his confidence to get away with it again in the future.

I'll just say again. This isn't just about what happened to John Doe. Much bigger ramifications here.
 
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DaHawkz24

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No.

Yes they could go to the police. But more importantly they are obligated by law to fully investigate any such claims which would have let to a police investigation but they failed that and let him walk with no repercussions.

Are you as a person required to go to the police or investigate everything you hear. No. But an organization is liable for the activity of their employees especially while in the workplace and with other employees. Depart of labor takes this seriously and has laws for just this thing that businesses must abide and directors of fucking HR should know.

I do agree though that it's hard to frame your mind around this from 14 years ago. But laws still existed back then even if they weren't taken as seriously. Plus it was specifically stated they too inaction purposefully because they didn't want to rock team chemistry which directly lead to another incident. That's beyond negligence and into criminal in my book especially when you let him walk which is again more negligence and lead to more incidents. It could be argued that the Hawks enabled his behavior through inaction further boosting his confidence to get away with it again in the future.

I'll just say again. This isn't just about what happened to John Doe. Much bigger ramifications here.

The Blackhawks HR policy seemed to be immediately report to HR, immediately remove the accused by putting them on leave, and investigate. I agree they should have gone to police.

I just dont think the police could have (or Chicago police specifically) would have done anything with what seems to have been percieved as specifically unwanted sexual advances from a grown man to another.
The Blackhawks should have done more digging to get to the point of having the full info about assault to bring to police.

I don't understand how they didn't want to mess with team chemistry, but allowed a creep to continue to work with their players.
 

MassHavoc

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The Blackhawks HR policy seemed to be immediately report to HR, immediately remove the accused by putting them on leave, and investigate. I agree they should have gone to police.

I just dont think the police could have (or Chicago police specifically) would have done anything with what seems to have been percieved as specifically unwanted sexual advances from a grown man to another.
The Blackhawks should have done more digging to get to the point of having the full info about assault to bring to police.

I don't understand how they didn't want to mess with team chemistry, but allowed a creep to continue to work with their players.
I have a hard time believing it was never perceived as anything more than unwanted sexual advances, and even it that was all it was, proper reporting and handling of it was never taken.

Separately, the only person that seems to have interviewed John Doe was the team guy who was the counselor or whatever, I am forgetting his name. Setting aside whether or not he was actually the appropriate person that should be handling a situation like this, if he did any kind of proper interview which it seems he did because he had many details, I have a hard time believing that he came away with any sort of description that he reported to the brass that fell short of sexual assault. But we can only go by the details they provide in the report. And like you said it was 14 years ago, the understanding of what is and isn't appropriate may have had different definitions of the time right or wrong. I only got through the exec summary but the fact that no one else properly interviewed either of the parties involved is abhorrent.

And yes, the police could have done something. At a bear minimum they would have talked to the parties involved. Which seems to be much more than any other person in the organization did. If I'm reading it right, the person who talked to John Doe never talked to BA, and the person who talked to BA never talked to John Doe. And the people who were responsible for all of it, never talked to either one. Can you imagine the courtroom where you have a case when no one person got the full story from both sides? Again, i could be wrong here though as I didn't read the full report.
 

DaHawkz24

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I have a hard time believing it was never perceived as anything more than unwanted sexual advances, and even it that was all it was, proper reporting and handling of it was never taken.

Separately, the only person that seems to have interviewed John Doe was the team guy who was the counselor or whatever, I am forgetting his name. Setting aside whether or not he was actually the appropriate person that should be handling a situation like this, if he did any kind of proper interview which it seems he did because he had many details, I have a hard time believing that he came away with any sort of description that he reported to the brass that fell short of sexual assault. But we can only go by the details they provide in the report. And like you said it was 14 years ago, the understanding of what is and isn't appropriate may have had different definitions of the time right or wrong. I only got through the exec summary but the fact that no one else properly interviewed either of the parties involved is abhorrent.

And yes, the police could have done something. At a bear minimum they would have talked to the parties involved. Which seems to be much more than any other person in the organization did. If I'm reading it right, the person who talked to John Doe never talked to BA, and the person who talked to BA never talked to John Doe. And the people who were responsible for all of it, never talked to either one. Can you imagine the courtroom where you have a case when no one person got the full story from both sides? Again, i could be wrong here though as I didn't read the full report.

James Gary is the mental skills coach I believe. The full report is really only 65ish pages. The rest are sources and things like that. From my (probably bad) comprehension...

- John Doe tells a friend about the actual assault, but doesnt want to tell anyone else (very understandable with shame, career concerns etc.)

- Skating coach Paul Vincent is said to have spoke with John Doe because he seemed to be in a bad place, and asked about Aldrich because he heard rumors. John Doe didnt give much info but confirmed it was about Aldrich.

- Black Ace 1 gets texts and a dick pic hitting on him

- Black Ace 1 friend/blackhawks employee gets info from Black Ace 1 about Aldrich being a creep with him and John Doe. The Blackhawks employee went to Macisaac about what they know. (The employee claims that they knew it was a sexual encounter, but John Doe and Black Ace 1 deny talking with the emloyee)

- Macisaac gets James Gary to speak with John Doe and Black Ace 1 about "invitations for sex from Aldrich"

- John Doe says that he told Gary of the whole sexual encounter. Gary told him "we will take care of this" and "everything will be ok"

- John Doe friend says that they were told Gary told John Doe to "drop it, and never speak about it again" (contradicted by John Doe)

- Gary says that John Doe told him of unwanted sexual advances and threatening his career. Gary said that John Doe denied any sexual contact with Aldrich

- Gary says Black Ace 1 denied everything

- Black Ace 1 says he told about the dick pic

- James Gary brings it to the brass and tells them the rumors have "something to it"

- The brass meet shortly after the Sharks sweep. The general concensus seems to be that Aldrich is beeing creepy with John Doe "trying to get in the sheets"

- Accounts are not clear on who did or said what, but seems like Q was pissed simply because he needs to coach a team to the cup and wants nothing to do with this. Bowman tries to make it clear that McD was responsible for taking the next steps.

- McD reports what "they know" to HR 3 weeks later

- HR meets with Aldrich with independant counsel where he is told they will put him on leave and investigate (finally) or he needs to resign and never have contact with the Blackhawks and John Doe again... But you can have your day with the cup and come to the banner raising.

So we will never know if the Blackhawks brass knew of the extent of the sexual assault or if they thought it was Aldrich being creepy hitting on young players.

Either way it does seem like everyone in the locker room/management at least heard rumors pretty quick, and they should have fired Aldrich immediately.
 
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MassHavoc

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James Gary is the mental skills coach I believe. The full report is really only 65ish pages. The rest are sources and things like that. From my (probably bad) comprehension...

- John Doe tells a friend about the actual assault, but doesnt want to tell anyone else (very understandable with shame, career concerns etc.)

- Skating coach Paul Vincent is said to have spoke with John Doe because he seemed to be in a bad place, and asked about Aldrich because he heard rumors. John Doe didnt give much info but confirmed it was about Aldrich.

- Black Ace 1 gets texts and a dick pic hitting on him

- Black Ace 1 friend/blackhawks employee gets info from Black Ace 1 about Aldrich being a creep with him and John Doe. The Blackhawks employee went to Macisaac about what they know. (The employee claims that they knew it was a sexual encounter, but John Doe and Black Ace 1 deny talking with the emloyee)

- Macisaac gets James Gary to speak with John Doe and Black Ace 1 about "invitations for sex from Aldrich"

- John Doe says that he told Gary of the whole sexual encounter. Gary told him "we will take care of this" and "everything will be ok"

- John Doe friend says that they were told Gary told John Doe to "drop it, and never speak about it again"

- Gary says that John Doe told him of unwanted sexual advances and threatening his career. Gary said that John Doe denied any sexual contact with Aldrich

- Gary says Black Ace 1 denied everything

- Black Ace 1 says he told about the dick pic

- James Gary brings it to the brass and tells them the rumors have "something to it"

- The brass meet shortly after the Sharks sweep. The general concensus seems to be that Aldrich is beeing creepy with John Doe "trying to get in the sheets"

- Accounts are not clear on who did or said what, but seems like Q was pissed simply because he needs to coach a team to the cup and wants nothing to do with this. Bowman tries to make it clear that McD was responsible for taking the next steps.

- McD reports what "they know" to HR 3 weeks later

- HR meets with Aldrich with independant counsel where he is told they will put him on leave and investigate (finally) or he needs to resign and never have contact with the Blackhawks and John Doe again... But you can have your day with the cup and come to the banner raising.

So we will never know if the Blackhawks brass knew of the extent of the sexual assault or if they thought it was Aldrich being creepy hitting on young players.

Either way it does seem like everyone in the locker room/management at least heard rumors pretty quick, and they should have fired Aldrich immediately.
There was another incident in there too right, during the 3 week McD drug his feet, with the intern? Not related to the previous two incidents of sexual assault and unsolicited dick picks?
 

DaHawkz24

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There was another incident in there too right, during the 3 week McD drug his feet, with the intern? Not related to the previous two incidents of sexual assault and unsolicited dick picks?

The intern says he was friendly with Aldrich, and they went out to party with the cup with a few other employees. They took a cab home and Aldrich invited the intern up for drinks which was denied. He persisted and even grabbed his crotch and the intern said "WTF, NO!" And Aldrich stopped.
The intern said he felt bad for Aldrich hiding being ***, and chalked it up to a drunken mistake for Aldrich to hit on him
 

Granada

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All this to protect a fucking video coach.
 

MassHavoc

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The intern says he was friendly with Aldrich, and they went out to party with the cup with a few other employees. They took a cab home and Aldrich invited the intern up for drinks which was denied. He persisted and even grabbed his crotch and the intern said "WTF, NO!" And Aldrich stopped.
The intern said he felt bad for Aldrich hiding being ***, and chalked it up to a drunken mistake for Aldrich to hit on him
Still falls under things he should have been trained against doing. even if not a direct subordinate there are laws in place about work place interactions like this than can be seen as coercion from a person in a place of power. Workplace romance of any kid is regulated and they most likely didn't have a program in place, being it was 14 years ago and they are more common now. But it doesn't matter if the intern chalked it up, it's an HR red flag regardless of circumstance. And no one should be be grabbing anyone by the anything unsolicited. No matter how innocent that may seem it's still sexual assault.
 

DaHawkz24

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Still falls under things he should have been trained against doing. even if not a direct subordinate there are laws in place about work place interactions like this than can be seen as coercion from a person in a place of power. Workplace romance of any kid is regulated and they most likely didn't have a program in place, being it was 14 years ago and they are more common now. But it doesn't matter if the intern chalked it up, it's an HR red flag regardless of circumstance. And no one should be be grabbing anyone by the anything unsolicited. No matter how innocent that may seem it's still sexual assault.
Completely agree I was just sharing my short explination of the intern situation. Who knows what other players, employees and interns he did stuff like this to.
He was with the team from 2008. Macisaac had trouble believing the alligations at first because "Aldrich hit on his female secritary".... I'm pretty sure that would be a HR red flag as well!
 

MassHavoc

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Completely agree I was just sharing my short explination of the intern situation. Who knows what other players, employees and interns he did stuff like this to.
He was with the team from 2008. Macisaac had trouble believing the alligations at first because "Aldrich hit on his female secritary".... I'm pretty sure that would be a HR red flag as well!
I think that's a really big issue that get lost here is how much, oh well it was just this one time isolated incident, it probably was just a one off, type of stuff that happens. Where it all should have been properly reported. And if it had, the pattern of behavior would have been found before many of the resulting incidents happen. This is where I think the biggest issue is because it was an institutional failure, and they seem to be allowing the Hawks just just get off with removing everyone from the organization and a 2M fine. No legal actions seem to be taking place as a result (as of yet) and you even have statements from a victim that seems to feel borderline accepting. The reality is that the severe negligence of the organization allowed a sex offender to prey on people for over a decade when if they would have had proper procedures in place could have identified it early.

Now, i'm going to take a crazy turn here, and in no way want it to be seen that I'm explaining away what BA did, or that he shouldn't be held to the full extend of the law, but a lot of times people like this have severe mental trauma that they have had perpetrated upon them. He may have been already doing this for years, and the Hawks are not responsible for that. But at the same time, with the right procedures in place if they would have handled him and his behaviors properly, they could have also worked toward him getting proper counseling and treatment. Now I'm not saying that would have eliminated the chances of him having the future incidents he did, but at least the risk would have gone done.

I guess at the end of the day I'm just a bit underwhelmed by the culpability of the just complete plea of ignorance on behalf of the organization. So much could have and should have been done different that could have changed the lives for many of his victims.
 

Granada

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It wasn't a dynasty at the time.

Even in the moment, would the world have ended if you just fired the guy and/or had HR investigate the guy immediately? Again, it's a fucking video coach. It's not like you had to investigate the head coach or another player; this wasn't some "irreplaceable piece" on the team that would have destroyed your chances at winning the Cup.
 
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Gustavus Adolphus

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My favorite teams
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2 things:
1. Has anyone linked to the report?
2. Not to deal in hypotheticals here, but would it be assumed that it would have been handled differently if it was known during the regular season?
 

MassHavoc

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Since he is going to reveal his identity anyway, I think it's fair to reveal who you had speculated it is? Or is that still not appropriate?
 

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