Brenly Won't Miss Ramirez

Uman85

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Okay, so you replace C-Pain with Fielder. Fielder is a 5 win player. C-Pain is a 2 win player. You gain 3 wins there, but you lose Rami's 4 wins and have to deal with a POS 3B.

You gain 3 and lose 4, only down 1 win from this year. That's a HUGE difference. What would the Cubs have done without that 1 more victory. A POS 3B? You mean one that can play defense? That's terrible.

Slow finisher? For his career, he has OPS's of .901, .900, and .883 in July, August and September, respectively. Yes, he finishes reallllll slow.


As long as the Cubs are out of playoff contention, he's fine. Playoffs? Choke artist.
 

Shawon0Meter

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So we decided Pujols at 3rd and Fielder at 1st?
 

EROCK23

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You gain 3 and lose 4, only down 1 win from this year. That's a HUGE difference. What would the Cubs have done without that 1 more victory. A POS 3B? You mean one that can play defense? That's terrible.




As long as the Cubs are out of playoff contention, he's fine. Playoffs? Choke artist.

EXACTLY. anyone can go look at a players stats on baseball reference or espn but if you actually WATCH the games you know they are not clutch
 

Captain Obvious

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Same tired arguments for Ramirez. If Ramirez is so great, shouldn't he have put the 2011 Cubs on his back like Pujols Soriano does for the Cubs at a couple of weeks at a time.

No one is arguing that Ramirez has bad stats, I'm saying you have to look at his production, and most of it came after the Cubs were out of the race. When the Cubs needed him the most, in the beginning of the season, he was invisible. I don't see the point in keeping Ramirez to be a 67 win team vs a 71 win team.

No one is saying he is great, though. We're saying that he is the best option at 3B. Do you think that if Ramirez had produced at the beginning of the season, we'd have had that big of a different outcome? I don't.

You're correct that it doesn't make sense to keep him if we're a 71 win team again. But that's assuming that we don't really do anything this off season and that's just asinine.

You gain 3 and lose 4, only down 1 win from this year. That's a HUGE difference. What would the Cubs have done without that 1 more victory. A POS 3B? You mean one that can play defense? That's terrible.




As long as the Cubs are out of playoff contention, he's fine. Playoffs? Choke artist.

And you're basically right back where you started. That is terrible if you sign Prince because we want to use Prince to help us win. I'd rather have the +3 wins you get with Fielder and Ramirez as opposed to being right back where we were with just Fielder.

So 6 games makes a choke artist? I think you're forgetting the first 12 games he played, in which he had a .956 OPS. That's kinda good. Those games don't matter now?

As long as the Cubs are out of playoff contention, he is fine? So when we are in playoff contention he sucks? Is that what you're telling me? His two best seasons were in 07 & 08. I'm pretty sure we were in playoff contention then. I *could* be wrong though.

EXACTLY. anyone can go look at a players stats on baseball reference or espn but if you actually WATCH the games you know they are not clutch

You can't possibly convince me that your eyes are more objective than the metrics I use. Plus, just because you saw it, doesn't mean it's true. If it was, then there would be a lot more serial killers on the streets.
 

EROCK23

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No one is saying he is great, though. We're saying that he is the best option at 3B. Do you think that if Ramirez had produced at the beginning of the season, we'd have had that big of a different outcome? I don't.

You're correct that it doesn't make sense to keep him if we're a 71 win team again. But that's assuming that we don't really do anything this off season and that's just asinine.



And you're basically right back where you started. That is terrible if you sign Prince because we want to use Prince to help us win. I'd rather have the +3 wins you get with Fielder and Ramirez as opposed to being right back where we were with just Fielder.

So 6 games makes a choke artist? I think you're forgetting the first 12 games he played, in which he had a .956 OPS. That's kinda good. Those games don't matter now?

As long as the Cubs are out of playoff contention, he is fine? So when we are in playoff contention he sucks? Is that what you're telling me? His two best seasons were in 07 & 08. I'm pretty sure we were in playoff contention then. I *could* be wrong though.



You can't possibly convince me that your eyes are more objective than the metrics I use. Plus, just because you saw it, doesn't mean it's true. If it was, then there would be a lot more serial killers on the streets.

In 07 and 08 Ramirez was 28-29. In his prime he should have been putting up those years with the money we are paying him. Now he is 33. They have not been in contention in 3 years. Im not saying what he is doing isnt hard but no he has not been in "clutch" situations because the Cubs are not in it.
 

Captain Obvious

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In 07 and 08 Ramirez was 28-29. In his prime he should have been putting up those years with the money we are paying him. Now he is 33. They have not been in contention in 3 years. Im not saying what he is doing isnt hard but no he has not been in "clutch" situations because the Cubs are not in it.

So it is Ramirez's fault that the Cubs haven't been in contention? He's done what he can, but he is only 1 player.
 

ZAN

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You know why he's a numbers gatherer, because he's GOOD! The man can't win, I swear. If he does something bad, people expected him to do bad. When he succeeds, he's a numbers gatherer. Who is going to do better for the Cubs at 3rd?

I don't buy this. Look at it as an unbiased fan.

Where is he in April, May, and early June when we are trying to contend? Playing a supporting cast role.

Where is he in July, August, and September (when we're 20 back)? Front and center.
 

Shawon_Dunston

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I don't buy this. Look at it as an unbiased fan.

Where is he in April, May, and early June when we are trying to contend? Playing a supporting cast role.

Where is he in July, August, and September (when we're 20 back)? Front and center.

So the Cubs only try to contend through early June? That's a bigger problem. Aramis isn't a problem. Everyone else in the lineup minus Castro is the problem. BTW, how am I biased? You don't even know me. I have no problem telling it like it is about the Cubs.
 

ZAN

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yes, there was 2008...however,

in the first half of 2008, his batting average was below his second half average.
in the second half of 2008, his power numbers declined.

we need consistency, hustle, and heart...of which Aramis provides none.
 

ZAN

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and if you have no problem telling it like it is about the cubs, we might become best friends...im the realest cub fan you'll meet here.
 

Shawon_Dunston

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1)Aramis has been consistent since he's been here.

2) Hustle and "heart" are overrated. Barney and Reed hustle and have "heart." Augie hustled and had "heart." Where did that get the Cubs? One of the worst records in the league. They need more talent, period.
 

Shawon_Dunston

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and if you have no problem telling it like it is about the cubs, we might become best friends...im the realest cub fan you'll meet here.

Here, here. :beerbang: I hate blind homers. Nothing wrong with discussion and thinking outside of the box.
 

Rice Cube

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People get a narrative in their head and can't get it out.

Yeah, they end up believing it too even though the numbers are freely available to do more pointed analysis. Oh well.
 

Mr. Cub

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Aramis has been arguably the best hitter we've had since the days of Sammy. With D-Lee as an exception. And maybe even Alou, even though we only had him for 3 seasons.
 

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