Briggs Coming Back?

jc456

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There was nothing egotistical about that at all. The point was that many agree that we should give Briggs a look, and agree with me, there are plenty of others that don't agree with me. The point of that was that there was no consensus here. Not does it matter what anybody thinks here. This is not where decisions are made, this is a message board, some lose sight of that.

my point was your comment on how your opposition continues with the same 6 paragraphs. Like every one of your posts state the same thing over and over to bring him back. So what the heck is the difference? Only that you think your points are more legit, and that's that.

Well no they are not. In fact, if you were actually thinking with your head instead of your heart, you'd actually see the opposing points clearer. BTW, that would include me.
 

remydat

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so, are you saying that Fox won't know that Brigg's has declined? Or are you saying Brigg's hasn't declined? I'm lost with where you are.

I am saying there is information out there that suggests he may not have declined as badly as you guys claim. And that your opinions on the matter are flawed because your information is incomplete for the reasons I noted to FatBabies that I will say again.

Your perception is inherently flawed because you aren't a coach, you aren't a scout, you aren't an insider with direct knowledge of what went on last year, and you likely didn't watch enough film to really assess Lance's performance relative to what the scheme asked him to do, and you don't know how much of the problem was Lance or the players vs the fact the coaches didn't put them in a position to succeed.

Based on the above, none of us here including me have enough information to make an informed decision. Hence why I challenge you guys claiming to know for a fact what Fox and Fangio think of Briggs and the egotistical assumption inherent in that belief that Fox and Fangio must have the same opinion on Briggs as you do.
 

legendxofxlink

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I kind of agree with the pro Briggs guys. The Bears defense, not just Briggs, has been a joke since Lovie and Urlacher left. Briggs can still be a good player at ILB... Now I'm not saying Briggs is the best option out there, but he is AN option for a team not wanting to dump a high draft pick or overpay a FA considering all the holes in the secondary.

I'm all for letting Bostic earn his spot, but honestly noone else on this roster as of right now projects as an ILB.
 

jc456

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I am saying there is information out there that suggests he may not have declined as badly as you guys claim. And that your opinions on the matter are flawed because your information is incomplete for the reasons I noted to FatBabies that I will say again.

Your perception is inherently flawed because you aren't a coach, you aren't a scout, you aren't an insider with direct knowledge of what went on last year, and you likely didn't watch enough film to really assess Lance's performance relative to what the scheme asked him to do, and you don't know how much of the problem was Lance or the players vs the fact the coaches didn't put them in a position to succeed.

Based on the above, none of us here including me have enough information to make an informed decision. Hence why I challenge you guys claiming to know for a fact what Fox and Fangio think of Briggs and the egotistical assumption inherent in that belief that Fox and Fangio must have the same opinion on Briggs as you do.

what information?

I am no scout, but I have eyes and I can see slow, out of position players on the field.

And decline is decline, now you never said how much of decline that Belichick used, you used the word decline, and if you do not think that at age 35 a man's skills decline, then you are a fool.
 

jc456

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I kind of agree with the pro Briggs guys. The Bears defense, not just Briggs, has been a joke since Lovie and Urlacher left. Briggs can still be a good player at ILB... Now I'm not saying Briggs is the best option out there, but he is AN option for a team not wanting to dump a high draft pick or overpay a FA considering all the holes in the secondary.

I'm all for letting Bostic earn his spot, but honestly noone else on this roster as of right now projects as an ILB.

the only option is for Brigg's to go to pasture.
 

1000ftditka!

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No. Briggs is not coming back.
 

The Hawk

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And this just in............. Put this one in the JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT MEDIA REPORTERS COULDN'T DREDGE THE BOTTOM LOWER FOR "EXPERT OPINION" category::

Headline: TRESTMAN AND CUTLER DID NOT DISPLAY LEADERSHIP LAST SEASON !!!!!!!!

AUTHOR: Jay Fucking Feeley !!!!


Slow news day fellas? Are you shitting me? Its bad enough that they dredged up comments from Robby Gould last year to comment on team morale, but NOW THIS????? Amazing!
 

The Hawk

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boy, how people forget how good he still was before the injury in 2013.

I don't think that I forgot about how good he was before 2013. What I also do not forget is what an asshole he was after Urlacher didn't get re-signed and how bad he played in the last two years.
 

The Hawk

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Maybe having a new coach thats a defensive guy would invigorate Briggs..He seemed to do great under Lovie who was of the same mindset...He only soured under Trestman..And lets face it,99% of the team did as well... I'd give him a 1 year deal and see how it goes


Nah. No lab experiments for me. Let him go off into the sunset with Lovie and company and try and show how the Bears fucked both he and Urlacher up.
 

The Hawk

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So you think the reason Briggs half assed and didn't care was because of Emery and Trestman. Well what about guys like Paea, Willie Young, Ratliff and hell even Sharpton who played like they gave a shit??? Last I checked Emery and Trestman were here for them too. If you dislike the GM and head coach that bad then have your agent find you a way outta there or retire. Don't stick around, half ass it and talk shit about how you don't pay attention to the coaching staff. I personally love what Briggs did here most of his career but the way he acted and played last year was complete bulllshit.


And it also makes me laugh when I hear dumb shits like Brigss talk about, hell actually brag about sleeping in meetings and expect the "fans" to support him?????? Yeah, Joe 6-Pack trying his ass off to put food on the table is going to be supportive of a millionaire bragging about sleeping on the job. The dumbness of these guys is amazing.
 

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What true fans want to know................ Does Briggs moonlight as Chumlee on Pawn Stars??????????
 

Thomas31

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Catch the Boers and Bernstein Transition 1-27-15?
According to Bernstein(and his source), Management was not happy with Briggs and Tillman.
They think Briggs and Tillman was the main reason(cause?) team did not buy in with Trestman system.
He also added that management will still leave everything to Pace

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/audio/boers-and-bernstein-show/transition-1-27-15/


lol....

I wonder if anyone of the "it's all Lance fault"people will listen to what Manelley said. You know, a guy that actually played with both of them for the past 10+ years.....

Hilariously ironic when that NOW people want to listen to Bernstein and his 'inside sources", but just a few days ago loved the fact he was getting ripped for his 'inside sources'....

BEARS
 

TheWinman

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I was asked and answered a question toward me on Cutler. Not sure what you're trying to get at here. All I stated was I agreed with his benching and gave my perspective on why I felt he needed to be benched. Why Trestman benched him is not my concern today. If you['re saying that the only reason Trestman got a job for next year is because he benched Jay Cutler, dude, that is a statement made with a stupid angel from your brain. My advice is to lose the stupid!


All I'm saying is that Trestman ONLY benched Cutler, so that in future job interviews he could say it was Cutler and not the offense that was the problem. There is no way to tell if he still would have gotten the Ravens job if he had not done this. If you think he would have benched Cutler if his job as safe, then I have some real estate to sell you.

Well it isn't your team, it's Fox and Pace's team. Let's see where they are. You can go back to your Madden GM on your TV anytime.

Really, it's their team? I bet they want the most competitive team out there also, meaning as many wins as they can get next year. Not, "Hey let's lose a bunch of games so we could get a top draft pick" because they want to be competiive is why they will talk to Briggs and have him there for training camp. After that, it's up to Briggs to see if he breaks camp with the team.

right, nothing is coming.
except a contract offer

I don't think that I forgot about how good he was before 2013. What I also do not forget is what an asshole he was after Urlacher didn't get re-signed and how bad he played in the last two years.

But you forgot how good he was in the first part of 2013, how much better our D was before he was injured. If you want to say he sucked the last season and a half, then fine, but not the full 2 seasons.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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Lol, like I said, everything is an apples to oranges comparison. There is never going to be a player that fits all the parameters you come up with once I provide the examples you asked me to provide. You asked the question. I gave you the answer based on the question you asked.

Ratliff and Paea had good years despite the overall bad D. So your point about him being 3rd best is kind of silly. Especially when I already told you that he was rated the 10th best 4-3 OLB by PFF and the 8th best against the run despite limited playing time.

Your argument for cutting Lance is based on nothing more than emotion and your perception of what went on last year. Your perception is inherently flawed because you aren't a coach, you aren't a scout, you aren't an insider with direct knowledge of what went on last year, and you likely didn't watch enough film to really assess Lance's performance relative to what the scheme asked him to do, and you don't know how much of the problem was Lance or the players vs the fact the coaches didn't put them in a position to succeed.

Unless you can assert that some of the above applies to you, your opinion is worth as much as any opinion on these message boards which is jack shit. That includes my opinion as well. I just am not presumptuous enough to pretend I have all the answers like you guys are doing hence why I said I don't have enough information to truly make the call on Lance. All I am doing is repeating over and over that neither do you which is what you seemed confused about.

On the contrary, my position is based on LOGIC and more important, the reality of the NFL.

LOGIC tells you that 35 year old LBs aren't starting NFL players. You can bring up random examples of guys like Seau and Lewis who were leaders on teams on a SB run. The reality is that the Bears are a rebuilding team trying to be a contender. That will be done with youth and speed. Two things Lance Briggs cannot bring to the table.

LOGIC also tells you that the coaches and GMs that you rightfully defer to don't trot out 35 year old LBs as key starters. Again, if we assume 6 LBs per 53 man roster, that's 192 in the NFL. Of those, I'd bet 190 or more will be under the age of 35.

LOGIC tells you that an LB that is 35 has age against him. Couple that with two years in a row of season ending injuries and two years of being out of shape and a terrible attitude? That's like 4 strikes against him.

LOGIC also tells you that Lance Briggs is not under contract.

LOGIC also tells you that the oldest defense in the league was also the worst. LOGIC tells you that this team needs to get young and fast and quickly. That is not Lance Briggs.

LOGIC also tells you that PFF is complete and utter horseshit and should be of no value to anyone with eyes that work.

Again, I repeat - LOGIC tells you that new coaching staffs that are looking to rebuild don't climb that mountain with 35 year old linebackers. They do it with young players they acquire via the draft and develop and coach up.

You are attempting to speak with logic, but you are defaulting to the EMOTION position based on the fact that a certain player was once very good for a team but without acknowledging that players at his age retire.

You defer to the coaches. I'll make a gentleman's wager - $10 says that the coaches do NOT have Lance Briggs on the Bears roster next season.

But do you - a fan of the Chicago Bears - do YOU want Lance Briggs to be on the active roster for the 2015 Bears? I don't. That also goes for Peanut Tillman and Roberto Garza.
 

remydat

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what information?

I am no scout, but I have eyes and I can see slow, out of position players on the field.

And decline is decline, now you never said how much of decline that Belichick used, you used the word decline, and if you do not think that at age 35 a man's skills decline, then you are a fool.

Once again, PFF graded him as the 10th best 4-3 OLB and 8th best against the run.

Unless you watch the all 22 tape, you have no fucking clue what the coverage was or what Briggs resposibilities were. You also have no fucking clue whether a player is out of position because of a bad play call by the coach or because they fucked up. To pretend you do because you watch a game on Fox or CBS is laughable.

And I never said he didn't decline. I said there is evidence to suggest is decline isn't as bad as you guys claim. Do you understand what that sentence means? It means there is a decline but the uncertainty is over how steep of a decline. The irony of calling someone a fool because you can't comprehend what a fairly basic sentence actually means.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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I am saying there is information out there that suggests he may not have declined as badly as you guys claim. And that your opinions on the matter are flawed because your information is incomplete for the reasons I noted to FatBabies that I will say again.

Your perception is inherently flawed because you aren't a coach, you aren't a scout, you aren't an insider with direct knowledge of what went on last year, and you likely didn't watch enough film to really assess Lance's performance relative to what the scheme asked him to do, and you don't know how much of the problem was Lance or the players vs the fact the coaches didn't put them in a position to succeed.

Based on the above, none of us here including me have enough information to make an informed decision. Hence why I challenge you guys claiming to know for a fact what Fox and Fangio think of Briggs and the egotistical assumption inherent in that belief that Fox and Fangio must have the same opinion on Briggs as you do.


None of us are coaches, scouts, GMs or former players.

We are fans.

We are also human beings who possess the ability to think critically.

We can look at the preponderance of evidence and form our own logical conclusions.

We can look at the decisions those coaches, scouts and GMs make year in and year out.

And based on that, we can determine that bringing back a 35 year old LB is a bad idea and won't happen.

Why? Because I think it is? Perhaps. But more importantly, because of the fact that no coaches, GMs or scouts think it is a good idea to do so. This based on their actions and the fact that starting day NFL rosters just don't feature 35 year old out of shape linebackers. 35 year kickers? Sure. All day long. Lineabackers? Not so much.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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I kind of agree with the pro Briggs guys. The Bears defense, not just Briggs, has been a joke since Lovie and Urlacher left. Briggs can still be a good player at ILB... Now I'm not saying Briggs is the best option out there, but he is AN option for a team not wanting to dump a high draft pick or overpay a FA considering all the holes in the secondary.

I'm all for letting Bostic earn his spot, but honestly noone else on this roster as of right now projects as an ILB.

It wouldn't be 'dumping' a high pick. There are many, many needs on this team. 2 safeties, 3 LBs, CB, RT, QB and DE among them. I would have no problem if any of the Bears picks - high or otherwise - went to fill those positions. LB and Safety are the most critical needs on this team.
 

remydat

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On the contrary, my position is based on LOGIC and more important, the reality of the NFL.

LOGIC tells you that 35 year old LBs aren't starting NFL players. You can bring up random examples of guys like Seau and Lewis who were leaders on teams on a SB run. The reality is that the Bears are a rebuilding team trying to be a contender. That will be done with youth and speed. Two things Lance Briggs cannot bring to the table.

LOGIC also tells you that the coaches and GMs that you rightfully defer to don't trot out 35 year old LBs as key starters. Again, if we assume 6 LBs per 53 man roster, that's 192 in the NFL. Of those, I'd bet 190 or more will be under the age of 35.

LOGIC tells you that an LB that is 35 has age against him. Couple that with two years in a row of season ending injuries and two years of being out of shape and a terrible attitude? That's like 4 strikes against him.

LOGIC also tells you that Lance Briggs is not under contract.

LOGIC also tells you that the oldest defense in the league was also the worst. LOGIC tells you that this team needs to get young and fast and quickly. That is not Lance Briggs.

LOGIC also tells you that PFF is complete and utter horseshit and should be of no value to anyone with eyes that work.

Again, I repeat - LOGIC tells you that new coaching staffs that are looking to rebuild don't climb that mountain with 35 year old linebackers. They do it with young players they acquire via the draft and develop and coach up.

You are attempting to speak with logic, but you are defaulting to the EMOTION position based on the fact that a certain player was once very good for a team but without acknowledging that players at his age retire.

You defer to the coaches. I'll make a gentleman's wager - $10 says that the coaches do NOT have Lance Briggs on the Bears roster next season.

But do you - a fan of the Chicago Bears - do YOU want Lance Briggs to be on the active roster for the 2015 Bears? I don't. That also goes for Peanut Tillman and Roberto Garza.

Logic also tells us that there are exceptions to every rule. Logic also tells me that if you are not a coach, you are not a scout, you are not an insider with direct knowledge of what went on last year, you did not watch the all 22 of the 461 snaps Lance Briggs took part in, you don't know what the scheme asked him to do, and you don't know how much of the problem was Lance or the players vs the fact the coaches didn't put them in a position to succeed that you are not in any position to determine whether Lance is an exception to the rule or not.

The problem isn't the logic you referenced. The problem is the logic you didn't reference that contradicts your own. You are basically cherry picking what information to use and what not to use and I am saying when you look at all the information we have and more importantly all the information we don't have, neither of us are in a position to make definitive statements one way or another about Lance Briggs. It's really not more complicated than that. You are free to speculate as much as you want but that's all it is. Speculation.
 

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