Building through the Draft

[Black Rainbow]

The pissed came from not having a plan at QB. Pace lucked out in that department but that was the more pressing need that has been elusive for years

Its not like this is a 4 win team that he's put together

In my view, what you're describing, is the QB fan boi fans. They care more about the QB than the team.

Some of them are already back, but more will be popping in soon.

 

[bears51/40]

Of 2021 likely starters, not a single other NFL team has fewer players originally drafted by that team as starters than the Bears. Ten own draftees as starters ties for last with ARI. Factor in starting UDFA's, of which the Bears have 0, and it gets even worse. With regard to building through the draft, during his reign, no one has matched Pace's ineptitude.
[/thread]

Where did you get your info please? Did you include slot and nickel, who are on the field up to 75% of the time? Did you include rookies who will be starters early? UDFA's Mustipher or Bars?

 

[Bearly]

Eyedoc on fire right now...lol

And he’s not wrong but you can’t take it as well as you dish, lol. dislike me, lolol.

 

[Visionman]

Where did you get your info please? Did you include slot and nickel, who are on the field up to 75% of the time? Did you include rookies who will be starters early? UDFA's Mustipher or Bars?

Only the ones that “prove” his point…

 

[Black Rainbow]

And he’s not wrong but you can’t take it as well as you dish, lol. dislike me, lolol.

I'm just not going to argue the point with you.

The bulk of arguably the best NFL team of all time was drafted in 5 years...6 years if you want to add The Fridge in '85.

You could absolutely do that today and keep that team together because most of them would still be on rookie contracts.

 

[bears51/40]

Only the ones that “prove” his point…

Well if he did I am up to 15 starters.

 

[Aquineas]

That’s funny because teams that go 62-18 in 5 years with one super bowl in today’s football aren’t considered busts

? Didn't claim that, but it's cool.

 

[iueyedoc]

Where did you get your info please? Did you include slot and nickel, who are on the field up to 75% of the time? Did you include rookies who will be starters early? UDFA's Mustipher or Bars?

Went through all projected depth charts on Ourlads scouting service. Tevan Jenkins was included, so yes rookies too.
Bars is in no way considered a starter, as for Mustipher, I am not going to play the what if's game with 32 NFL rosters, he was not projected to start by them. Regardless of Mustipher, fact still stands, tied for last with ARI in draftedstarters. Most teams were in the teens, so Pace is not even close to not sucking at drafting starters. Whatever your thoughts on Pace,I don't think he is awful, but his drafting has sucked. That is undeniable.

 

[Canth]

Of 2021 likely starters, not a single other NFL team has fewer players originally drafted by that team as starters than the Bears. Ten own draftees as starters ties for last with ARI. Factor in starting UDFA's, of which the Bears have 0, and it gets even worse. With regard to building through the draft, during his reign, no one has matched Pace's ineptitude.
[/thread]

How the heck did you get to that number?

Offensive line: Mustipher, Daniels, Whitehair, Jenkins
RB: Montgomery
TE: Kmet
WR: Mooney
QB: Fields...eventually

Defensive line: Nichols, maybe Goldman
LB: Roquan, maybe Trevis Gibson (I have doubts that Quinn actually starts)
CB: Johnson, Vildor
Safety: Jackson

Punter: O'donnell

So, by my count, I figure at least 11, Vildor makes it 12, Gibson or Goldman could make it 13 and Fields would make it 14. And technically adding the kicker would get to 15. If both Gibson and Goldman start, you are at 16. And Mustipher was a UDFA. So, at least half and likely over half the projected 2021 starters are home grown.

I mean, I don't disagree with the point that the Bears need to develop more of their own guys and they need more draft picks to be able to do that. But let's at least be real that Pace has drafted decent with the picks he has made. I do think he has learned from some of his mistakes he made early on as GM. Especially since the 2018 draft with Roquan, I think he has put more emphasis on production than drafting just projection - that is a hard balance to find.

As I said before, the one lesson he learned from his very first draft that I wish he would revisit and 'un-learn' is the trade up to get 'his' guys. IMO, when he just missed out on Leonard Williams in 2015, the take away he took from that is he needs to move up to get the players he really wants. He hasn't often shown the patience to stand pat or trade back. Even if FA, I think he needs to learn some patience as their rush to sign some of the guys has given them some pretty bad deals like Glennon, Quinn, the trade for Foles, etc.

 

[Bearly]

I'm just not going to argue the point with you.

The bulk of arguably the best NFL team of all time was drafted in 5 years...6 years if you want to add The Fridge in '85.

You could absolutely do that today and keep that team together because most of them would still be on rookie contracts.

Never disagreed with that. Chasing windmills again.

 

[Bearly]

It is 100% irrelevant in this case.

They didn’t even have true free agency till 1993. Anything about roster building before that is irrelevant.

Most of those 1st round picks couldn’t leave like they can now.

Same point I made and the only year they had 2 1sts was because they lost one the year before. Thar pick was Harris that didn’t play in 85 along with Bell.
None of this excuses Pace in any way but the compare is apples and oranges.

 

[Visionman]

Even in the later rounds, Pace prefers to move around to get the players he targets. I cant fault him for that. Better to use 2 picks to get a preferred target like Mooney than wait and hope you can get half that talent with those 2 picks combined.

Of course when that player doesn’t make an impact, it LOOKS worse. But the truth is, Pace hits on those more often than not. And if ppl complain about him trading away good picks for guys like Fields…. ?

 

[Black Rainbow]

....I cannot wait for this roster to start playing games, so the BS stops...lol.

It's going to be abrupt.

 

[Bearly]

I don’t think anyone/many are looking at this as much more than a transition year with a shot at the playoffs. Personally, I’ve never been a Dalton fan but still think sitting Fields for a bit make sense. When Fields is in the film room, switches plays due to coverages and understands what to do with the ball when a coverage is disguised from what the O was called against, he should start. At that point it will still take a bit to execute as intended but that’s when he’ll actually be learning instead of just making plays which we know he can do.

If Dalton’s a disaster, Justin will be out there anyway but he’ll benefit more by having those tools before he starts and he wont be able to acquire those in the vanilla pre.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

....I cannot wait for this roster to start playing games, so the BS stops...lol.

It's going to be abrupt.

Toilet paper thin

 

[The Big Grabowski]

Of 2021 likely starters, not a single other NFL team has fewer players originally drafted by that team as starters than the Bears. Ten own draftees as starters ties for last with ARI. Factor in starting UDFA's, of which the Bears have 0, and it gets even worse. With regard to building through the draft, during his reign, no one has matched Pace's ineptitude.
[/thread]

This is just flat out wrong.

Mustipher UDFA is starting at center. Whitehair, Daniels, Jenkins also drafted by Bears. Kmet looks like starter at TE. Mooney at WR 2. Monty at RB.

Assuming Miller isn’t starting slot, thats 7 on offense alone with Fields likely to start at some point.

On D, Nichols and Goldman. Roquan at ILB, probably Johnson and Vildor at CB. Then Jackson at S. So probably 6 not counting nickel.

I’m counting 13 / 22 starters not including ST but possibly 15 if Miller is slot and Shelley is nickel.

 

[bamainatlanta]

This is just flat out wrong.

Mustipher UDFA is starting at center. Whitehair, Daniels, Jenkins also drafted by Bears. Kmet looks like starter at TE. Mooney at WR 2. Monty at RB.

Assuming Miller isn’t starting slot, thats 7 on offense alone with Fields likely to start at some point.

On D, Nichols and Goldman. Roquan at ILB, probably Johnson and Vildor at CB. Then Jackson at S. So probably 6 not counting nickel.

I’m counting 13 / 22 starters not including ST but possibly 15 if Miller is slot and Shelley is nickel.

Kmet doesn't look like a starter. He is a fucking starter and he is more than certainly fine. I don't get why posters on this board are still waiting for more confirmation. The dude will be here starting well above average for a long time, barring injuries.

 

[Bearly]

Even in the later rounds, Pace prefers to move around to get the players he targets. I cant fault him for that. Better to use 2 picks to get a preferred target like Mooney than wait and hope you can get half that talent with those 2 picks combined.

Of course when that player doesn’t make an impact, it LOOKS worse. But the truth is, Pace hits on those more often than not. And if ppl complain about him trading away good picks for guys like Fields…. ?

It works a lot better in later rounds when you’re trying to target viability as opposed to giving up potential starters. That said, i can’t argue with the 2021 version of targeting. Qb and Lt are the hardest spots to fill. It’s when you do it for early round RBs and WRs that the risk reward ratio is off.

 

[Leomaz]

? Didn't claim that, but it's cool.

Just an observation

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Just kind of a half-assed thread idea, but par for the course with CCS. These are two different discussions you're lazily trying to weld into one. Building a team in the 80s versus building a team now is night and day. Value at positions has changed. Demands of positions have changed. Schemes have changed. Coaching and athleticism of the players has changed.

Draft capital has become valuable across the board of all major sports, not just the NFL. You can make a case for the NBA--because 1st round draft picks outside the top 7 picks are useless to a lot of teams. But the NBA is its own dynamic that I wont delve further into.

As has been stated on/off over 5 pages--how many 1st round picks don't matter, it's the totality of the draft. If you get an all-pro safety in round 4, but your 1st rounder blows like in 2017, the draft isn't necessarily a failure. It becomes a failure when you adjust the lens to said 1st rounder being a quarterback who blows in an era of football where you need a star QB or better to be anything other than a flash in the pan playoff team 1/2 times a decade. That is not success nor conductive to building an effective roster.

Then there's an entirely different dynamic/discussion which is Ryan Pace constantly backtracking by giving away draft picks because he made tons of mistakes and didn't fix problems with players he thought could as well as vice versa--bombing on an edge rusher he traded up for in the top 10 only to pay a bum with dead toe 75 million dollars. Giving up 4th rounders for the highest-paid 3rd string QB who the GM can't even give away after ass-fucking his contract/guaranteed money that could already have been done/over with, trading multiple 1st rounders plus because the #2 overall guy in 2017 was a mental midget, giving up a 4th round pick to a division rival to take an edge rusher in the 5th round who up to this point (1 year) is entirely unremarkable. Pace's wheeling and dealing is not conductive to building an effective, competitive roster. That's entirely different from a decade/era where running backs mattered most.