Bushrod gave up 2nd-most QB hurries of any OT in 2012

[botfly10]

Oh you've done so much criticizing of Emery have you? So tell me then, was it a smart move to pay a bunch of money to a guy that the majority of people have said is barely a better upgrade than J'Marcus Webb?

Because your basic answer throughout this entire thread has been Yes it is a smart move because Phil Emery is a great GM and I trust Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer over what the statistics say.

Hell they're even statistics that Phil Emery himself cited, when he cited ProFootballFocus.

When your GM cites ProFootballFocus and then fans go out and research what ProFootballFocus said and then repeat what ProFootball Focus said about Webb and Bushrod and THEN YOU criticize it....YOU LOOK LIKE THE DUMB ASS.

Um... who are you having this imaginary argument with? Cause its not me. For real, I think you are losing your grip.

I have only made 2 points in this thread:

1. There will be competition along the OL, even if the backups are longshots
2. You are not the equal of a pro scout.

All the rest of the shit you are getting mad about is some bizarre projected argument that I haven't been a part of. So I'm not sure who you've been having this conversation with, but it wasn't me.

 

[iueyedoc]

Oh cmon. Nobody in this thread is being anti-stats...

I'm more anti know-it-all amateur journalist , anti made up reference to other writers, anti disregard player/coach opinion, anti doesn't matter cus i watch All-22, anti nonsensical analogy, anti put words in my mouth. But that's just me.

 

[Colonel_Buendia]

Oh cmon. Nobody in this thread is being anti-stats...

I'm anti stats for oline. There are way too many variables.

Which only goes to show how useless that fucking chart is.

That was sarcasm, right Bot?

 

[botfly10]

That was sarcasm, right Bot?

lol, well, except for those guy. ha. Though I bet zeek would say he means that stats only tell part of the story. As for Jailbreak, well, he's on his own... lol

 

[Jailbreak]

lol, well, except for those guy. ha. Though I bet zeek would say he means that stats only tell part of the story. As for Jailbreak, well, he's on his own... lol

Gee, thanks - haha

 

[Colonel_Buendia]

Lol. Hard to argue against the fact that stats only tell part of the story. I find them worthwhile in general, albeit not as a rule

 

[Ari Bear]

For those too lazy to look at the old thread, here is 2012 OT ranking, from the middle

If you actually paid attention to the Table, it shows you the information in the OP.
4 sacks, 8 QB Hits, 46 QB Pressures.
They rated him +1.5 overall with -3.5 pass block, +0.5 screen block, +2.0 run block, and +2.5 penalty

We knew he wasn't a great pass protector when he signed. This isn't anything new. 2012 was a bad year for him and that whole team. 2011 and 2010 stats would show a better blocker. He'll be fine in the Trestman quick-pass offense.

Granted he didnt play as much as Bushrod, I couldnt help to notice that Riley Reiff who we passed on in the 2012 draft didnt give up a signal sack and only gave one quarterback hit..

 

[Bear Pride]

No I'll say one better, I'll say the Bears media who attend practices don't even watch practice at all. They're usually on their smart phones or conversing with each other rather than actually watching practice. There's not a single Bears media person outside of ONE person who actually watches practice, actually films practice.

Also I'm just curious how much raw video of the off-season activities have you watched this year? No not the edited 90 second clips, I'm talking raw video. Were you at any practices this spring?

Dude, you might as well drop that argument right now. Your ability to understand the salary cap will give NO ONE any confidence that you could actually watch ANY game tape ....... and actually understand it!

 

[Bear Pride]

Speaking of hyperbole....

By the way how great was that Shea McClellin pick?

Which pass rushers performed better in 2012? Was it A) Chandler Jones B) Whitney Mercilus or C) Shea McClellin.

You know since that spawned your YouTube rant.

What does that have to do with Bushrod? What a fuckin dooshbag you are.

 

[Bear Pride]

Oh you've done so much criticizing of Emery have you? So tell me then, was it a smart move to pay a bunch of money to a guy that the majority of people have said is barely a better upgrade than J'Marcus Webb?

Because your basic answer throughout this entire thread has been Yes it is a smart move because Phil Emery is a great GM and I trust Phil Emery and Aaron Kromer over what the statistics say.

Hell they're even statistics that Phil Emery himself cited, when he cited ProFootballFocus.

When your GM cites ProFootballFocus and then fans go out and research what ProFootballFocus said and then repeat what ProFootball Focus said about Webb and Bushrod and THEN YOU criticize it....YOU LOOK LIKE THE DUMB ASS.

Dude, the major thing your puny little mind is over looking is that Bushrod will give Kromer's blocking scheme and the Bears new offense some familiarity. The Bears OL is undertaking a huge overhaul this year, and Bushrod will make that transition MUCH easier because he knows kromer's terminology, scheme, etc. Having a little stability at LT on an OL with 4 new starters (webb starting at new position of RT). You could also argue that Webb will be even better at RT.

Go away dude! We definitely won't quote anymore of your articles!!!

 

[L GUAPO]

By the way I watched the film on Webb's seven sacks from a year ago, the All-22 tape end zone camera view and two of Webb's seven sacks allowed according to PFF were Cutler's fault for holding onto the football too long.

One Cutler holds onto it for nearly 5 seconds and then is sacked by Matthews, Week 2 Green Bay.

The second questionable Webb sack of the seven he allowed was Webb pushed Ware beyond the pocket a near 180 degrees from Ware's starting point, and as Cutler started to scramble away, Ware caught him.

So while PFF may give Webb seven sacks allowed, I give Webb five sacks allowed which is equal to the total allowed by Bushrod.

Also Bushrod's highest graded game in pass protection, came against the Broncos and in nearly every instance Bushrod received double team help or chip help from an OT, TE or 'back.

Bushrod is not a CLEAR upgrade over Webb. But if he can play better than he did in '12 and Webb plays well on the right side, like he did in 2012 the pass protection on the edges will have improved.

What about the ones Cutler avoided with his mobility? Just saying....u have to account for those too to be fair

 

[L GUAPO]

The article doesn't take into account obvious passing downs, what about RB/TE chip/double blocks?

Exactly! Can't believe it hasn't been brought up. Webb received a lot of help when he faced a good DE and a bunch throughout the year, Bushrod, not nearly as much. Big difference. I'm just happy we addressed our 2 biggest needs in FA. A LT and a TE. We overpayed a bit but as long as the offense improves, it is $$ well spent.

 

[Run the ball]

This thread is a perfect example of why people don't want to post on here ... John had a point and the OP did too, whether you guys like it or not.

 

[ctree5454]

Had a chance to go back and watch most of the Saints games from last year on NFL rewind and I didn't see anywhere near 47 pressures. What I think is happening is PFF is counting all the times Bushrod is pushing the rusher past the pocket and forcing Brees to step up. But you can tell this was the design of there protection scheme with there interior line being so strong. Bushrod would cut off the inside rush, only allowing the rusher the option of going outside, he would beat him to the spot at the QB and push him past the pocket. These should definitely not count as pressures.

Bushrod is a good left tackle, without a doubt an upgrade from Webb. He rarely gets any help from a back or TE and holds his own against pretty much anyone. He isn't elite but he is well coached and knows how to get the job done.

 

[L GUAPO]

This thread is a perfect example of why people don't want to post on here ... John had a point and the OP did too, whether you guys like it or not.

I don't see any bad blood yet. Whether people have great points or bad ones, people have the right to disagree in this country and it makes for a more interesting board. Relax

 

[Bearly]

I agree, for me the upside of Bushrod is hopefully the obvious mental lapses will be fewer and farther in between.


The oline has been upgraded, but to low 20's possibly, that's still below avg.

And here we disagree. as mentioned by me and others, Bushrod had a down year. Webb is still improving and put at an easier position as well. That along with a better blocking scheme and improvements at both G positions should get us more than that. To be fair, it may be hard to know how good they'll be but when you improve 4 of 5 spots, you expect more than that.

Some guys are too down on Webb and up on Bushrod but it's a signing we needed. It makes us a little better at LT which should look better than that in this scheme and we've improved RT a lot. Webb was the least of out problems last year yet he remains the poster boy for haters. I guess it's because he's the only one other than Garza that played all the time. I think Webb and Long on the right side is going to make some space for Forte and at least move some bodies in short yardage for a change.

 

[L GUAPO]

Had a chance to go back and watch most of the Saints games from last year on NFL rewind and I didn't see anywhere near 47 pressures. What I think is happening is PFF is counting all the times Bushrod is pushing the rusher past the pocket and forcing Brees to step up. But you can tell this was the design of there protection scheme with there interior line being so strong. Bushrod would cut off the inside rush, only allowing the rusher the option of going outside, he would beat him to the spot at the QB and push him past the pocket. These should definitely not count as pressures.

Bushrod is a good left tackle, without a doubt an upgrade from Webb. He rarely gets any help from a back or TE and holds his own against pretty much anyone. He isn't elite but he is well coached and knows how to get the job done.

I saw the same thing as u did and many other posters as well. Like a bunch of people said Bushrod stays on his guy longer and pushes his guy past the pocket rather than uncontested sacks/pressures like Webb does. Those count as pressures when the qb has to step up and that is a flaw in this metric if the play is designed like that (as is all the help Webb gets vs Bushrod). Glad we made an upgrade. Good and sensible 1st post!

 

[Bearly]

I saw the same thing as u did and many other posters as well. Like a bunch of people said Bushrod stays on his guy longer and pushes his guy past the pocket rather than uncontested sacks/pressures like Webb does. Those count as pressures when the qb has to step up and that is a flaw in this metric if the play is designed like that (as is all the help Webb gets vs Bushrod). Glad we made an upgrade. Good and sensible 1st post!

That's actually not true. Webb is good at that outside direct. Its the double move and crossover he needs work on. Why Kromer teaches 'little steps'. Here's the problem. If you iso on any almost any LT, he won't look great certain games. Many of have done that with Webb without much perspective and I think that's what 51 is doing with Bushrod. I've watched film on him from last year and it wasn't impressive but he'll be fine and was a great signing for our needs. We just couldn't wait any longer to try and develop another T that wasn't yet on the roster.

if Kromer likes him enough to bring him along, I'll assume we upgraded LT even if it's not a big difference. We needed a starting T and bad.

 

[dabears253313]

I don't see any bad blood yet. Whether people have great points or bad ones, people have the right to disagree in this country and it makes for a more interesting board. Relax

Run the ball has done the same thing.

 

[iueyedoc]

And here we disagree. as mentioned by me and others, Bushrod had a down year. Webb is still improving and put at an easier position as well. That along with a better blocking scheme and improvements at both G positions should get us more than that. To be fair, it may be hard to know how good they'll be but when you improve 4 of 5 spots, you expect more than that.

Agree about the blocking scheme. Not to be lost in the Trestman hire is the fact he turned a horrible OL into one that allowed the fewest sacks multiple yrs when he was hired as a HC. Keeping his QB healthy is paramount. This is a 180 degree shift from the tackling dummy value Martz allotted the QB. Besides being vertical, the assurance that he will not be nearly decapitated almost weekly should help slow things down for JC and allow him to clean up his footwork and mental errors. As for Webb playing RT, I am not sold on it, he failed miserably the 1st time, though it was his rookie yr. I wouldn't say it's a lot easier than LT, it just requires less rare talents. Big long armed men that are light on their feet are a rare thing. RT requires less refined pass blocking talent, but more road grader ability and mentality. Webb is more Pillsbury dough boy than fire eater, so I'm not sure he fits the bill. Physically, I think he is an LT, it's a major lack of mental ability and determination that I think he lacks.