Coach Q

[Shantz My Pants]

Q is the guy who oversees the whole thing, but I don't think our PP is as awful as it is said to be.

I'll agree with Pez that I think the setup needs to be tweaked (I like how Philly runs there's and Shaw could play the Simmonds role) but its a PP that is just inconsistent. I liked adding Richards to the first unit, and while we don't have that one timer set up with Sharp anymore, the amount of times he actually connected on it was brutal since everyone knew it was going to him cross ice from Kane.


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[Shantz My Pants]

Yes Diden runs the PP but it's been around league average or waiving slightly away from it since 2010-11 under Q no matter who the several different assistants have been running it. It hasn't been consistently strong since Haviland was running it and they did more back door passing, down low setting up than the more umbrella approach they use these days.

Yeah and technically during the in game moments, Kitchen is running the defensive line shifts and D but it's still a impressive task to see them rotating the D to keep everyone mixed around and prevent any real badly exposed 3rd pairing on the ice.

Kane and Ovi aren't even the best examples because they generally these days now do play Defense, under Adam Oates though Ovi was told to not exert himself defensively. It's not simply Q won't play young players, he wont play young defensively irresponsible player. There is often still bias in peoples judgement on that because of their preferences. As there were people directly complaining last postseason about Nordstrom playing over Morin and throwing out the young players not getting played claimed, and I don't think they even understood the foolishness of those statements.

Ovi and Kane are perfect examples because they are so far greater on the offensive spectrum than many, you give them the benefit of the doubt in the defensive zone.

Yes, they've gotten better, but their not on the ice to stop the opposition from scoring.

A guy like Pirri while offensively talented, is not near the same end of the spectrum as Ovi and Kane, so his defensive game needs to be better in order to be relied on for higher minutes.


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[Chief Walking Stick]

Ovi and Kane are perfect examples because they are so far greater on the offensive spectrum than many, you give them the benefit of the doubt in the defensive zone.

Yes, they've gotten better, but their not on the ice to stop the opposition from scoring.

A guy like Pirri while offensively talented, is not near the same end of the spectrum as Ovi and Kane, so his defensive game needs to be better in order to be relied on for higher minutes.


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Great post!

 

[CRM 114]

Dineen runs the power play? I was always under the assumption that it was Kitchen.

My bad.

 

[supraman]

Thanks, Trev, for steering this thread back on course from the shit show it had become.



I get your point about the assistant coaches operating the special teams, but ultimately it is the head coach that hires those two guys and, therefore, it's ultimately the head coach's fault if either of those special teams units fails to perform.

For all the bitching about the power play in the last few years, it actually hasn't been ranked that low consistently (as BHP pointed out to me in a recent thread). That PK, though? Always excellent. And I'll take a good penalty kill over a good power play.

Doesn't matter with the talent on the hawks we should be at least top 10 every year in PP if not top 5. Too much talent too little production

 

[TCD]

And its been proven season after season that a regular season successfull powerplay doesn't dictate jack shit when it comes to the playoffs or even getting into them with this club. THe Pk has been a much more important special team.

Hawks can and do score powerplay goals when they matter most.

this topic has been beat to death and it's just more offensive boner fans wanting more and more offense so they can stroke their boners while not giving a shit or understanding the significance of the defensive aspect to the game.

 

[DMelt36]

Doesn't matter with the talent on the hawks we should be at least top 10 every year in PP if not top 5. Too much talent too little production

I was just about to type what TCD said, essentially.

And its been proven season after season that a regular season successfull powerplay doesn't dictate jack shit when it comes to the playoffs or even getting into them with this club. THe Pk has been a much more important special team.

Hawks can and do score powerplay goals when they matter most.

this topic has been beat to death and it's just more offensive boner fans wanting more and more offense so they can stroke their boners while not giving a shit or understanding the significance of the defensive aspect to the game.

A nice power play is a luxury. A shutdown PK is a necessity.

 

[Rex]

5 pages since I got home?

 

[Pez68]

I don't even want the PP to be top 5. All I really ask for is that you generate momentum on the fucking power play. A lot of the time the Hawks' PP is so bad that the other team is the one generating momentum off of ...being stupid and taking a penalty. You don't have to score at a 25% clip, but you at least have to establish possession, get some shots on goal, and get some momentum out of it. If the power play isn't at least a threat to score most times on the ice, there is no deterrent against the other team taking penalties. How many times have the Hawks given up more scoring chances on their PP than they generated? That, to me, is unacceptable.

What changed on the PP in game 7? Well, let's see. The Hawks brought Toews out top and setup an umbrella, instead of having one of your better goal scorers on the fucking goal line. They stopped trying to work that right half boards bullshit they always do, and moved around. Keith ran the point in the umbrella with two legitimate shooting options to his left and to his right... Shaw was in front as usual, but Toews and Richards were up high in good shooting positions, on their off-hand...ready for one-timers. The fact that Mr. Roller Hockey actually ASKED that fucking question is as big an indictment on his hockey knowledge as anything he has ever posted. The PP setup was completely fucking different in game 7. The personnel was also changed up. Richards took over Sharp's spot on the #1 PP unit... I would expect someone that claims to have played/coached as much as he has to recognize that. Then again, it goes completely against his "COACHES RULE, PLAYERS ARE THE REASON GAMES ARE LOST" narrative he loves to parrot.

I don't give a single shit about Pirri and Morin. They will be very average NHL players, on shitty teams. Nothing more. That's not the point. The point is that they were both better players than Nordstrom, Handzus, or Bollig last season.

I have to give this quote special attention, for how god damn fucking Special person and devoid of logic it is....

But I digress. Game 2 went about 6 hours, and less than 48 hours later they had another game. Kruger was hurt. I'm pretty sure the coaches/team were the only ones that will know how bad. With him being a question mark to play let alone finish game 3 - he inserted Nordstrom (who can kill penalties) and Versteeg who can play any 3 forward position. If something happened with Kruger going down - the team had more options than Vermette and TT who only play 5 on 5 (Vermette had 1g in the playoffs up to that point). And the Hawks had just played 9 periods of hockey with what, 2 ES goal?

Kruger was hurt...and was a question mark to play/finish game 3... So scratch your LEADING FACEOFF GUY and proven veteran, for a fucking scrub who belongs in the AHL? Your 4th line center is hurt, and you scratch your 3rd line center and move a 4th line winger to center the 3rd line? In what world is Nordstrom a better PK option than Vermette? In what world is Nordstrom a better option than Vermette....for anything? If Kruger is hurt...and isn't going to take a SINGLE FACEOFF in game 3(he didn't)....why the **** wouldn't you scratch him instead of Vermette? What a horrible fucking argument.

Next up is scratching TT for Versteeg, who has sucked **** since returning from injury, and is reportedly nursing an injury. Again. And, in the process, you break up, arguably, the two most effective lines the Hawks had in the Anaheim series... The Desjardins/Kruger/Shaw and Sharp/Vermette/TT lines... When all the while, the biggest problem is Kane being useless on the "second" line, and Toews struggling because he's matched up against Kesler every shift and his line just isn't clicking... Versteeg can play any forward position....? LMAO

You're not really this stupid. I know you're not. Have you joined the "cool crowd" on this board that loves to pretend they are mouth-breathing mongoloids every time they post?

 

[MaryChristine]

I don't even want the PP to be top 5. All I really ask for is that you generate momentum on the fucking power play. A lot of the time the Hawks' PP is so bad that the other team is the one generating momentum off of ...being stupid and taking a penalty. You don't have to score at a 25% clip, but you at least have to establish possession, get some shots on goal, and get some momentum out of it. If the power play isn't at least a threat to score most times on the ice, there is no deterrent against the other team taking penalties. How many times have the Hawks given up more scoring chances on their PP than they generated? That, to me, is unacceptable.

What changed on the PP in game 7? Well, let's see. The Hawks brought Toews out top and setup an umbrella, instead of having one of your better goal scorers on the fucking goal line. They stopped trying to work that right half boards bullshit they always do, and moved around. Keith ran the point in the umbrella with two legitimate shooting options to his left and to his right... Shaw was in front as usual, but Toews and Richards were up high in good shooting positions, on their off-hand...ready for one-timers. The fact that Mr. Roller Hockey actually ASKED that fucking question is as big an indictment on his hockey knowledge as anything he has ever posted. The PP setup was completely fucking different in game 7. The personnel was also changed up. Richards took over Sharp's spot on the #1 PP unit... I would expect someone that claims to have played/coached as much as he has to recognize that. Then again, it goes completely against his "COACHES RULE, PLAYERS ARE THE REASON GAMES ARE LOST" narrative he loves to parrot.

I don't give a single shit about Pirri and Morin. They will be very average NHL players, on shitty teams. Nothing more. That's not the point. The point is that they were both better players than Nordstrom, Handzus, or Bollig last season.

I have to give this quote special attention, for how god damn fucking Special person and devoid of logic it is....



Kruger was hurt...and was a question mark to play/finish game 3... So scratch your LEADING FACEOFF GUY and proven veteran, for a fucking scrub who belongs in the AHL? Your 4th line center is hurt, and you scratch your 3rd line center and move a 4th line winger to center the 3rd line? In what world is Nordstrom a better PK option than Vermette? In what world is Nordstrom a better option than Vermette....for anything? If Kruger is hurt...and isn't going to take a SINGLE FACEOFF in game 3(he didn't)....why the **** wouldn't you scratch him instead of Vermette? What a horrible fucking argument.

Next up is scratching TT for Versteeg, who has sucked **** since returning from injury, and is reportedly nursing an injury. Again. And, in the process, you break up, arguably, the two most effective lines the Hawks had in the Anaheim series... The Desjardins/Kruger/Shaw and Sharp/Vermette/TT lines... When all the while, the biggest problem is Kane being useless on the "second" line, and Toews struggling because he's matched up against Kesler every shift and his line just isn't clicking... Versteeg can play any forward position....? LMAO

You're not really this stupid. I know you're not. Have you joined the "cool crowd" on this board that loves to pretend they are mouth-breathing mongoloids every time they post?

 

[supraman]

And its been proven season after season that a regular season successfull powerplay doesn't dictate jack shit when it comes to the playoffs or even getting into them with this club. THe Pk has been a much more important special team.

Hawks can and do score powerplay goals when they matter most.

this topic has been beat to death and it's just more offensive boner fans wanting more and more offense so they can stroke their boners while not giving a shit or understanding the significance of the defensive aspect to the game.

I dont fucking care. It is seemingly impossible for a roster this stacked to not have a monster powerplay but yet here we are with an average powerplay.

 

[ClydeLee]

Most great PPs are gonna have an elite shooting and/or a great PP QB and the Hawks have neither of which despite being full of elite offense weapons. They'll have to embrace their actual skills of the PP talent to be a great unit but almost everyone wants them to not do that.

 

[italianbeef]

What is that white liquid substance hurled at Q?

The foamy stuff coming out of the beer can?

No idea.

 

[italianbeef]

I thought it was Bickell

Speaking of Bickell, he was benched after the 1st in game 7. Q said he needs to play harder around the net and on the boards. Look for him to be flying in Game 1.

 

[italianbeef]

I don't even want the PP to be top 5. All I really ask for is that you generate momentum on the fucking power play. A lot of the time the Hawks' PP is so bad that the other team is the one generating momentum off of ...being stupid and taking a penalty. You don't have to score at a 25% clip, but you at least have to establish possession, get some shots on goal, and get some momentum out of it. If the power play isn't at least a threat to score most times on the ice, there is no deterrent against the other team taking penalties. How many times have the Hawks given up more scoring chances on their PP than they generated? That, to me, is unacceptable.

What changed on the PP in game 7? Well, let's see. The Hawks brought Toews out top and setup an umbrella, instead of having one of your better goal scorers on the fucking goal line. They stopped trying to work that right half boards bullshit they always do, and moved around. Keith ran the point in the umbrella with two legitimate shooting options to his left and to his right... Shaw was in front as usual, but Toews and Richards were up high in good shooting positions, on their off-hand...ready for one-timers. The fact that Mr. Roller Hockey actually ASKED that fucking question is as big an indictment on his hockey knowledge as anything he has ever posted. The PP setup was completely fucking different in game 7. The personnel was also changed up. Richards took over Sharp's spot on the #1 PP unit... I would expect someone that claims to have played/coached as much as he has to recognize that. Then again, it goes completely against his "COACHES RULE, PLAYERS ARE THE REASON GAMES ARE LOST" narrative he loves to parrot.

I don't give a single shit about Pirri and Morin. They will be very average NHL players, on shitty teams. Nothing more. That's not the point. The point is that they were both better players than Nordstrom, Handzus, or Bollig last season.

I have to give this quote special attention, for how god damn fucking Special person and devoid of logic it is....



Kruger was hurt...and was a question mark to play/finish game 3... So scratch your LEADING FACEOFF GUY and proven veteran, for a fucking scrub who belongs in the AHL? Your 4th line center is hurt, and you scratch your 3rd line center and move a 4th line winger to center the 3rd line? In what world is Nordstrom a better PK option than Vermette? In what world is Nordstrom a better option than Vermette....for anything? If Kruger is hurt...and isn't going to take a SINGLE FACEOFF in game 3(he didn't)....why the **** wouldn't you scratch him instead of Vermette? What a horrible fucking argument.

Next up is scratching TT for Versteeg, who has sucked **** since returning from injury, and is reportedly nursing an injury. Again. And, in the process, you break up, arguably, the two most effective lines the Hawks had in the Anaheim series... The Desjardins/Kruger/Shaw and Sharp/Vermette/TT lines... When all the while, the biggest problem is Kane being useless on the "second" line, and Toews struggling because he's matched up against Kesler every shift and his line just isn't clicking... Versteeg can play any forward position....? LMAO

You're not really this stupid. I know you're not. Have you joined the "cool crowd" on this board that loves to pretend they are mouth-breathing mongoloids every time they post?

Most people are saying they disagree with the game 3 moves, so you're preaching to the choir on that one. Though, TT and Vermette to that point in the playoffs had like 5 points in 18 combined games, so it's not like he benched guys who were producing.

As far as Morin and Pirri being better than other options last year, better in what regard? Q wants his forwards to be responsible on D. Those guys might have been better scoring options, but at what cost?

The Hawks lost game 7 in the WCF to the eventual champs on a lucky OT goal. With Michael Handzus as the 2C.

Maybe your ire would be better directed at Stan Bowman?

 

[PatrickShart]

I don't even want the PP to be top 5. All I really ask for is that you generate momentum on the fucking power play. A lot of the time the Hawks' PP is so bad that the other team is the one generating momentum off of ...being stupid and taking a penalty. You don't have to score at a 25% clip, but you at least have to establish possession, get some shots on goal, and get some momentum out of it. If the power play isn't at least a threat to score most times on the ice, there is no deterrent against the other team taking penalties. How many times have the Hawks given up more scoring chances on their PP than they generated? That, to me, is unacceptable.

What changed on the PP in game 7? Well, let's see. The Hawks brought Toews out top and setup an umbrella, instead of having one of your better goal scorers on the fucking goal line. They stopped trying to work that right half boards bullshit they always do, and moved around. Keith ran the point in the umbrella with two legitimate shooting options to his left and to his right... Shaw was in front as usual, but Toews and Richards were up high in good shooting positions, on their off-hand...ready for one-timers. The fact that Mr. Roller Hockey actually ASKED that fucking question is as big an indictment on his hockey knowledge as anything he has ever posted. The PP setup was completely fucking different in game 7. The personnel was also changed up. Richards took over Sharp's spot on the #1 PP unit... I would expect someone that claims to have played/coached as much as he has to recognize that. Then again, it goes completely against his "COACHES RULE, PLAYERS ARE THE REASON GAMES ARE LOST" narrative he loves to parrot.

I don't give a single shit about Pirri and Morin. They will be very average NHL players, on shitty teams. Nothing more. That's not the point. The point is that they were both better players than Nordstrom, Handzus, or Bollig last season.

I have to give this quote special attention, for how god damn fucking Special person and devoid of logic it is....



Kruger was hurt...and was a question mark to play/finish game 3... So scratch your LEADING FACEOFF GUY and proven veteran, for a fucking scrub who belongs in the AHL? Your 4th line center is hurt, and you scratch your 3rd line center and move a 4th line winger to center the 3rd line? In what world is Nordstrom a better PK option than Vermette? In what world is Nordstrom a better option than Vermette....for anything? If Kruger is hurt...and isn't going to take a SINGLE FACEOFF in game 3(he didn't)....why the **** wouldn't you scratch him instead of Vermette? What a horrible fucking argument.

Next up is scratching TT for Versteeg, who has sucked **** since returning from injury, and is reportedly nursing an injury. Again. And, in the process, you break up, arguably, the two most effective lines the Hawks had in the Anaheim series... The Desjardins/Kruger/Shaw and Sharp/Vermette/TT lines... When all the while, the biggest problem is Kane being useless on the "second" line, and Toews struggling because he's matched up against Kesler every shift and his line just isn't clicking... Versteeg can play any forward position....? LMAO

You're not really this stupid. I know you're not. Have you joined the "cool crowd" on this board that loves to pretend they are mouth-breathing mongoloids every time they post?

First off, there are people on the board with "mongloid" children. From an internet tough guy like yourself that wanted to fight me (which would be fun), who the **** are you to cross the insult line to that?

On to the players. How much as Vermette killed penalties as a Blackhawks and how much has Nordstrom? I'll let you look that up. While no, I'm not a Nordstrom fan, there is a reason teams play, practice and work on things all year long - not to all of a sudden change things because it may work on playstation. Coaches put players all year in certain situation (Nordstrom on PK, for instance) so when a role needs to be filled he has that experience.

It was the same when he'd always put Kruger/Frolik on the ice in key situations after a goal. All regular season long. Did it all the time. While Toews is the Selke forward - Kruger always got that call. I hated it. Worked out well vs Boston in game 6 now, didn't it? People whine and cry about all the line changing he does during the regular season. "Why won't he keep D pairings the same? Why won't he just play Toews and Kane all the time?" wah wah wah. Now, in the playoffs, he can mix/match lines and guess what....most all line combinations have experience at one time or another playing on different lines and different situations.

Now, Vermette (what, 20gms in reg season) and TT (again, 1/4) of a season have not had that experience as a Blackhawk. So forgive a coach for trusting players he has put through that over 2 guy that he never has. And yes, Versteeg plays all 3 forward positions on all 3 lines. He had just as many goals as Vermette up to that point. And funny....after being scratched, Vermette has produced more in the next 4 games he did his previous 30 as a Blackhawk. Maybe that guy needed a fire lit under his ass?

Kruger is more than a 4th line center for this team. If he says he can go - you play him. I'd play him over Vermette every day of the week. Not a horrible argument.

Again. They lost that game being 0-5 on the pp. Better yet, the first period having 8min of pp time. But of course, as we know, that's Q's fault too.

Still waiting for the "perfect coach" you have. Of course, you don't. So it doesn't matter who will ever be behind the bench...you'll need your miserable bitching to continue over the best coach in the game today.

 

[PatrickShart]

And as far as the "Morin or Pirri" better than Handzus.....Handzus was on the team for 2 playoff runs. 1 Cup and 1 game 7 loss in the WCF. I know 3 goals he scored in those 7 series that were huge goals for those teams, let alone the PK he did.

 

[whiteevo]

Pez still mad as **** all these years later i see. grimson still averaging 526 posts a day. gonna settle in here for the finals .

 

[LordKOTL]

Most people are saying they disagree with the game 3 moves, so you're preaching to the choir on that one. Though, TT and Vermette to that point in the playoffs had like 5 points in 18 combined games, so it's not like he benched guys who were producing.

As far as Morin and Pirri being better than other options last year, better in what regard? Q wants his forwards to be responsible on D. Those guys might have been better scoring options, but at what cost?

The Hawks lost game 7 in the WCF to the eventual champs on a lucky OT goal. With Michael Handzus as the 2C.

Maybe your ire would be better directed at Stan Bowman?

Last year Pirri wasn't really in the equation. Handzus was there for PK duties and that's about the only slot Pirri could have taken, and Pirri is not PK'er.

Morin in his 2 games, looked a bit better than Bollig, but IMHO it was not enough to draw a firm conclusion from. IMHO Morin was still a "maybe, Maybe not"

The 2 moves that get the ire were Versteeg for Regin, and Rosival for Brookbank. Regin, in spite of not being an NHL'er this year, was head and shoulders above Versteeg in every match he played in over Versteeg. The same goes from Brookbank, but couple that with the act that Brookbank was able to be a reasonable mitigation of Seabrook's loss--no mean feat for a guy that, again, is not an NHL'er. I think that's less of a reflection on how good they are and more of a reflection of how abyssimally bad Versteeg and Rosival were that whole playoff. IMHO that's where Q failed--he gambled and lost not unlike farting anf following through.

To put it in terms of this year--it would have been like Q Scratching TT for Versteeg and Cumiskey for Timmonen for Game 7.

Thankfully, Q only tinkered in game 3, even though it's still ill-advised after coming off of a win. He did correct and go back and so far hasn't enterteined the idea of putting Nordstrom, Versteeg, or Timmo back in. To me that's a coaching win--he did better than last year by not outcoaching himself in a vital game--he stuck with the linup that worked.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Pez still mad as **** all these years later i see. grimson still averaging 526 posts a day. gonna settle in here for the finals .

Welcome back mane.