Countdown To The Trade Deadline: Up To Date Rumors And Discussion(Hawks Edition)

[icehogfan08]

Lol Philly is in on everyone. I dont know what's going on with Steve mason he was a stud his rookie year and it's like he's getting worse every season.

 

[DMelt36]

If any of you follow Second City Hockey on Twitter, one of their founders tweeted that rumors in Toronto have Luke Schenn coming to Chicago for Hawks prospect Mark McNeill.

Interesting.

 

[icehogfan08]

If I was Columbus I would send Nash and mason to the Canucks. If you could start a rebuild around carter, Schneider that's a good start

 

[Capt. Serious]

Nash/Mason to Philly? Jackets supposedly want both Couturier & Schenn plus Bobrovsky.

 

[DewsSox79]

If I was Columbus I would send Nash and mason to the Canucks. If you could start a rebuild around carter, Schneider that's a good start

you wouldnt want to face the nucks in the playoffs now, let alone with an addition of nash.

 

[icehogfan08]

you wouldnt want to face the nucks in the playoffs now, let alone with an addition of nash.

It's either him or Perry, Idk how they are getting this cap room and able to get the guys they get. I doubt they do that trade, I was just saying for the Jackets to do something along those lines cause Mason is done and they need a #1

 

[Capt. Serious]

Canucks have only like 407,000 in cap space.

They'd have to move someone like Raymond then probably have to include Hodgson & Schneider in the deal for Nash.

 

[icehogfan08]

Canucks have only like 407,000 in cap space.

They'd have to move someone like Raymond then probably have to include Hodgson & Schneider in the deal for Nash.

:yep: part of the rebuild for the jackets

 

[southern_cross_116]

Dewey- are you caling users, kids because you were alive for the 2 line pass?

Technically what made the defensive aspect of the game emphasized was the fact that increasing the league by about 30%, dilluted the NHL talent pool to the point where the league's teams had to carry a lot of guys that would never have made it to the NHL.

I mean, seriously, they lost the2 line pass in the 90's - and Gretzky was scoring 200 point seasons in the 80's -with the 2 line pass, and also without 4 on 4 penalty situaions ( the Gretzky Rule -since rescinded - where coincidental minors meant that teams still played at 5 skaters aside, just that the offending part/parties were not allowed to be one of them (as they were in the box) -why? Well, because Gretzky and the Oilers were just too damned good at playing 4 on 4.

Anyways - my point is only - the expansion - adding, San Jose, Ottawa, Florida, Tampa Bay, Anaheim, Atlanta, Columbus, and Minnesota (think I got them all), basically messed with the talent pool to the point where it had an impact and the 'rationale at the time' that the opening up of Eastern Europe would take care fo the extra NHL calibre players -- well, it was proven wrong. -to the point where coaches began using the Trap, and it even worked enough to the point where teams were winning Stanley Cups. You'd hear idiotic rule change requests, because of the lack of offense - like goal cages that were 6 foot by 6 foot, all of the goalie movement area restrictions, pad restrictions etc ...

So, I suppose saying that the '2 line pass rule' made players look more defensively able -it just doesn't match with the results.

Personally speaking , I think the hockey in the 80's was of a lot better quality than the post expansion era, tweaked hockey.

___

Also - Iago forgot to add Trottier to his list of Centers...

---

Hypothetical Nash in Vancouver- I recall people saying the same thing about New Jersey and Kovalchuk the year Chicago won... Vancouver is Vancouver -once they choke again -- more riots -- book it.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

Vancouver can't give up Schneider.

They just can't.

 

[icehogfan08]

Vancouver can't give up Schneider.

They just can't.

we need them to, I hope they do

 

[Captain Iago]

The fact that CI brought up players from the past, and in my generation of actual hockey that I was alive for, the 2 line pass made it much easier to look at one players defensive aspect to their game and think that it is better than what it really was.

as far as the debate about this with two way play.....

stalberg has more goals than kane, he is also a better physical 2 way forward than kane. if two way is sooooo much more important, than add that stalberg has more goals, you would have to say that you would take stalberg over kane all day right? stating this with your logic not mine. but in reality we all would take kane over stalberg with ease. so to use toews two way play as a huge factor over stamkos is just silly.

I used those names because you asked if a two-way game makes you the best player. I don't think, despite eras, that anyone would argue that the guys I named are widely considered as the best forwards to have ever played the game. I know all of them despite one (only because of my stated ignorance) had two-way games and were proficient pkers. Stamkos is barely a pker because of his defensive game.

With some of the names I mentioned (especially the ancient ones), expansion probably played a bigger role in forwards' roles and defensive abilities, or lack thereof, than the absence of the red line.

 

[southern_cross_116]

... and then there are some guys that developed a 2 way game along the way - the best example I have is Brett Hull -after he stopped scoring the 70 and 80 goal seasons.

___

I want to add- though in my opinion expansion pretty much dilluted the entire NHL talent-pool -regardless of position. Also it proceded in increments -- in other words just adding San Jose -- no big deal, not much impact ... I don't recall exactly when Columbus, Atlanta and Minnesota entered - but the point being more like I think all 8 of those teams entered within a period of less than 10 years. It coincided (the early portion) with my having season tickets in the IHL and getting to see a fair number of teams roll through -and seeing what all was out there...

there are guys I saw play that were absolute nothings in the IHL -but got spots in the NHL - a guy like (I think I got the first name) Jason Marshall who was with Peoria --- that guy was absolutely awful in the IHL -a wannabe tough guy -yet there is was... a guy that Hawks fans might remember -he played part of one season with the team - Enrico Ciccone - he was an IHL tough guy - but not much else --- and he made it to the NHL -I saw him when he played in KC (then the Sharks top minor league team)...

it sort of started slowly -but when it hit full on - the lack of actual NHL ready talent -that is the reason the league changed the rules -the could see that scoring was way down (it wasn't because 2 line passes were illegal ) -- I mean come on -- that would be like if baseball decided there wasn't hitting - making curveballs illegal. . . it is more like the talent pool wasn't nearly so deep as they thought it was then (and they wouldn't ever admit it -- they = the league).

 

[southern_cross_116]

-I should add- that I don't want anyone to take any of what I said, as anything other than I love writing about history- (hockey history included).

 

[Captain Iago]

Also - Iago forgot to add Trottier to his list of Centers...

I knew once I started naming names, I'd get schooled.

 

[Captain Iago]

a guy that Hawks fans might remember -he played part of one season with the team - Enrico Ciccone - he was an IHL tough guy - but not much else --- and he made it to the NHL -I saw him when he played in KC (then the Sharks top minor league team)...

Still doing my best to forget. Loved his name, though.

 

[southern_cross_116]

Well he (Ciconne) was exciting to watch in the IHL -- but then again Link Gaetz (when he played for the SJ IHL team looked like Bobby Orr ... well, Bobby Orr with a bad attitude and the ability to beat the crap out of people ....).

My ISP crapped out on me -- 'broadband' in Australia is a relative term - it can be worse than the dial up I had in the US in the late 90's --- I was writing...

I only wanted to say, that I did not mean this as anything other than I love writing about history (and hockey history included of course).

You know the Islanders were the big deal of the early 80's... then the Oilers overshadowed them. I got into the NHL in a big way during the last couple of seasons that the Islanders won the Stanley Cup - their 3rd one -they dropped the Canucks (who were wearing those god-awful 'V' jerseys. And their 4th one was all about if the Oilers would ever get it together enough to win (as the Islanders handled them pretty well). The next season provided the answer to that -- when the Oilers won.

That was back in the day when Gretzky was quoted as calling the 'New Jersey Devils as a Mickey Mouse Operation' or something to that effect. (Which, frankly, they were back then .... being not too far removed from being the Colorado Rockies, and the Kansas City Scouts before that (which was well before my time in KC ...still a suburban Chicago kid then -and not watching hockey -- mainly because the Hawks were pretty blah in the mid 70's).

A guy like Savard really saved the team -sure they had some good players before that like Doug Wilson -but Savard was the showman. Without him, the team would have been blah through the 80's -- a big thank you still to the Canadiens for drafting Doug Wickenheiser -as it probably made me into a hockey fan ... as anyone in Chicago knows- you only can take so much sporting futility- so adding in hockey to that mix (who were still futile as far as winning Stanle Cups- but mainly futile in the playoffs -- it was at least something.).

 

[southern_cross_116]

As for names though -- blame about a decade of buying the full sets of Strat-o-Matic hockey ... I know their ratings aren't perfect -but they were a better model than anything else back then (probably still are).

 

[HawkWriter]

Per Dreger...

Flyers get Kubina for a 2nd and 4th.

Prices are still real high...wow

 

[Captain Iago]

Per Dreger...

Flyers get Kubina for a 2nd and 4th.

Prices are still real high...wow

And they're over the cap...which means something else is still on the horizon for them. 51 contracts - which they could alleviate themselves with a roster move, move someone to AHL or LTIR.

Tampa is believed to receive an ECHL player to balance Philly's contract situation.