Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[CSF77]

To be honest I saw the Steward trade as dumb and a sloppy excuse to back fill 3B to go along with LaHair at 1B. Taking 50-60 HR's of production for 2 non tested. Not to mention giving up something to get it. Bad trade.

Olt was a low current value that they could not get before. He is playing back at that level again. Maybe luck to get him at the right time or not.

The games need to be played before the opinions are formulated. Until then all are based off of conjecture.

 

[dabynsky]

To be honest I saw the Steward trade as dumb and a sloppy excuse to back fill 3B to go along with LaHair at 1B. Taking 50-60 HR's of production for 2 non tested. Not to mention giving up something to get it. Bad trade.

Olt was a low current value that they could not get before. He is playing back at that level again. Maybe luck to get him at the right time or not.

The games need to be played before the opinions are formulated. Until then all are based off of conjecture.

The something was a guy that was forced to sign a minor league deal this year and a player with a career OPS+ of 77. The Cubs gave up virtually nothing for Ian Stewart.

 

[beckdawg]

To be honest I saw the Steward trade as dumb and a sloppy excuse to back fill 3B to go along with LaHair at 1B. Taking 50-60 HR's of production for 2 non tested. Not to mention giving up something to get it. Bad trade.

You're making the assumption that the front office had the resources to re-sign Pena/A-Ram which doesn't appear to be the case. If viewed from that perspective, who else do you get to play 3B? Stewart was one year removed from a .256/.338/.443 season with 18 HRs and set to be 27. Your FA choices that year were Jamey Carroll, Jerry Hairston Jr., Willie Bloomquist, Nick Punto, Casey Blake, Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Kevin Kouzmanoff, and Jose Lopez. So, sure they took a chance on a change of scenery type with a low chance to succeed but if you don't have the money to bring back A-Ram what other choice was there? They needed someone who was MLB ready which Vitters apparently wasn't. And what they gave up was Colvin for crying out loud.

 

[Jntg4]

You're making the assumption that the front office had the resources to re-sign Pena/A-Ram which doesn't appear to be the case. If viewed from that perspective, who else do you get to play 3B? Stewart was one year removed from a .256/.338/.443 season with 18 HRs and set to be 27. Your FA choices that year were Jamey Carroll, Jerry Hairston Jr., Willie Bloomquist, Nick Punto, Casey Blake, Adam Kennedy, Bill Hall, Kevin Kouzmanoff, and Jose Lopez. So, sure they took a chance on a change of scenery type with a low chance to succeed but if you don't have the money to bring back A-Ram what other choice was there? They needed someone who was MLB ready which Vitters apparently wasn't. And what they gave up was Colvin for crying out loud.

Still a bad trade because Stewart was just that bad. Oh, and LeMahieu was in the trade too. Don't think LeMahieu will be some great starter going forward or anything, but a solid utility infield type >>> Stewart.

 

[theberserkfury]

I see you are back to responding to statements that no one ever said.

Just like you're still clinging to some silly comments made by some people (apparently a couple years ago) who don't even participate in this forum...

Why don't you at least criticize comments that are currently being made by people who are present...?

 

[patg006]

Just like you're still clinging to some silly comments made by some people (apparently a couple years ago) who don't even participate in this forum...

Why don't you at least criticize comments that are currently being made by people who are present...?

Well this is just the height of idiocy.

So we shouldn't pay attention to any comments that weren't made by active participants of this board and just pretend they never existed?

 

[patg006]

You're making the assumption that the front office had the resources to re-sign Pena/A-Ram which doesn't appear to be the case.

Don't have the resources??

Great point.

Clearly the Cubs should have trouble keeping up with financial powerhouses like the Royals and their exorbitant $92M payroll.

Don't have the money. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

 

[beckdawg]

Still a bad trade because Stewart was just that bad. Oh, and LeMahieu was in the trade too. Don't think LeMahieu will be some great starter going forward or anything, but a solid utility infield type >>> Stewart.

I'm not saying Stewart was good. I'm saying at the time he appeared to be the best option they had at filling 3B. It's easy to say he sucks now but that's hindsight. There's been players like Chris Davis who struggled as young corner infielders, got traded and suddenly burst into their potential.

 

[Jntg4]

I'm not saying Stewart was good. I'm saying at the time he appeared to be the best option they had at filling 3B. It's easy to say he sucks now but that's hindsight. There's been players like Chris Davis who struggled as young corner infielders, got traded and suddenly burst into their potential.

Sure, it happens. But I don't recall desiring Stewart at all as the best available option.

 

[chibears55]

Well this is just the height of idiocy.

So we shouldn't pay attention to any comments that weren't made by active participants of this board and just pretend they never existed?

I got a better idea , how about we stop paying attention to you and just remove you from posting here again. .
Im sure you won't be missed

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

 

[beckdawg]

Sure, it happens. But I don't recall desiring Stewart at all as the best available option.

I literally listed all of the available FA minus Ramirez according to ESPN that year. Maybe there were better trade options but who the hell can say for sure what was out there. All I'm saying is that given the fact that the front office was essentially forced to go from $134 mil payroll in 2011 to a $109 mil payroll in 2012 and the fact they had nothing in their minors ready they were going to have to take a big ol' bite of a shit sandwich at 3B.

Keep in mind that at the time they also didn't have Olt, Villenueva, and Bryant in their minors. So, the possibility of having a 27 year old Stewart who could turn around after 1 bad season would have been very desirable. So, while the trade clearly didn't work out, I still feel the thought process behind it was fine given that they appeared to be forced to cut payroll.

 

[theberserkfury]

Well this is just the height of idiocy.

So we shouldn't pay attention to any comments that weren't made by active participants of this board and just pretend they never existed?

Lol... seriously? So you're advocating digging up completely irrelevant comments made by people who aren't even here and then passing them off like people who are here are perpetuating those ideas? I'm all for debating the merits of the FO and what the team's doing, but you're attacking stuff that no one here is saying or referring to...

If those people aren't even here, how exactly would the discourse on these threads be improved by you bringing up the stuff that they said at one point years ago? They're not here so it's not like you can convince them that they have bad ideas... and the rest of us already think that their ideas are bad... what exactly are you even trying to accomplish?

 

[Jntg4]

I literally listed all of the available FA minus Ramirez according to ESPN that year. Maybe there were better trade options but who the hell can say for sure what was out there. All I'm saying is that given the fact that the front office was essentially forced to go from $134 mil payroll in 2011 to a $109 mil payroll in 2012 and the fact they had nothing in their minors ready they were going to have to take a big ol' bite of a shit sandwich at 3B.

Keep in mind that at the time they also didn't have Olt, Villenueva, and Bryant in their minors. So, the possibility of having a 27 year old Stewart who could turn around after 1 bad season would have been very desirable. So, while the trade clearly didn't work out, I still feel the thought process behind it was fine given that they appeared to be forced to cut payroll.

:shrug:

Honestly, LeMahieu, again nothing special, would have out-produced him. So while the thought process may have been somewhat coherent and there may not have been any great options, still a bad trade.

 

[dabynsky]

:shrug:

Honestly, LeMahieu, again nothing special, would have out-produced him. So while the thought process may have been somewhat coherent and there may not have been any great options, still a bad trade.

LeMahieu is pretty terrible in all honesty. The Cubs picked a guy off the scrap heap in Bonifacio that likely offers more value than LeMahieu. Stewart was a turd and that likely is why this is a bad trade. It would be so #Cubes though if Stewart took advantage of the opportunity in LAA.

 

[chibears55]

Lol... seriously? So you're advocating digging up completely irrelevant comments made by people who aren't even here and then passing them off like people who are here are perpetuating those ideas? I'm all for debating the merits of the FO and what the team's doing, but you're attacking stuff that no one here is saying or referring to...

If those people aren't even here, how exactly would the discourse on these threads be improved by you bringing up the stuff that they said at one point years ago? They're not here so it's not like you can convince them that they have bad ideas... and the rest of us already think that their ideas are bad... what exactly are you even trying to accomplish?

Sounds like exactly what his buddy boyd use to do to try and prove a point.. say that somebody said something that was never said. .
What he trying to accomplish is to continue what his two buddies from CBS started on here..

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[beckdawg]

:shrug:

Honestly, LeMahieu, again nothing special, would have out-produced him. So while the thought process may have been somewhat coherent and there may not have been any great options, still a bad trade.

Again, I'm not saying it was a great trade. I'm saying given the situation it was a logical decision to make. It's easy to criticize that move now with hindsight. However, had he returned to form we're having an entirely different conversation. In other words, it was worth the risk.

 

[patg006]

Lol... seriously? So you're advocating digging up completely irrelevant comments made by people who aren't even here and then passing them off like people who are here are perpetuating those ideas? I'm all for debating the merits of the FO and what the team's doing, but you're attacking stuff that no one here is saying or referring to...

If those people aren't even here, how exactly would the discourse on these threads be improved by you bringing up the stuff that they said at one point years ago? They're not here so it's not like you can convince them that they have bad ideas... and the rest of us already think that their ideas are bad... what exactly are you even trying to accomplish?

Tremendous logic continuing to be displayed.

So we are only allowed to discuss the comments made by people who are posting here and active presently?

So I guess we shouldn't then discuss comments made by Epstein, Hoyer, Ricketts, Keith Law, Dave Kaplan or any of the other prospects whores spout.

I simply stated that the same hyperbole that is being spread around about Olt was the same that was said a couple years ago about Stewart.

Nothing for anyone to get their panties in a bunch and yet several of you are acting like teenage girls who just had their favorite member of One Direction insulted.

 

[patg006]

Again, I'm not saying it was a great trade. I'm saying given the situation it was a logical decision to make. It's easy to criticize that move now with hindsight. However, had he returned to form we're having an entirely different conversation. In other words, it was worth the risk.

No it wasn't the logical decision to make. It was a terrible decision and many people criticized the move at the time and not in hindsight.

It was a bad move not worthy of the excuses and apologies being given by fanboys.

 

[patg006]

Stewart was a turd and that likely is why this is a bad trade

Despite none of the players being involved being very good, the Cubs got back far less value than they gave away.

THAT is why it was a bad trade.

The end.

 

[theberserkfury]

Tremendous logic continuing to be displayed.

So we are only allowed to discuss the comments made by people who are posting here and active presently?

So I guess we shouldn't then discuss comments made by Epstein, Hoyer, Ricketts, Keith Law, Dave Kaplan or any of the other prospects whores spout.

I simply stated that the same hyperbole that is being spread around about Olt was the same that was said a couple years ago about Stewart.

Nothing for anyone to get their panties in a bunch and yet several of you are acting like teenage girls who just had their favorite member of One Direction insulted.

This is getting silly. I'm very clearly referring to your penchant for attacking inane and long irrelevant comments made by old posters here and back on CBS and trying to act like any of those comments are still relevant to this board and its posters today.

Unless Epstein, Hoyer, Ricketts, Keith Law, Dave Kaplan or any other professional sports writers/scouts/whatever have posted here/on CBS in the past, they don't exactly fall under that category. You honestly can't see how badly you're reaching here?