Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[Jntg4]

This is getting silly. I'm very clearly referring to your penchant for attacking inane and long irrelevant comments made by old posters here and back on CBS and trying to act like any of those comments are still relevant to this board and its posters today.

Unless Epstein, Hoyer, Ricketts, Keith Law, Dave Kaplan or any other professional sports writers/scouts/whatever have posted here/on CBS in the past, they don't exactly fall under that category. You honestly can't see how badly you're reaching here?

A Bears player used to actually be a member here, true story.

 

[CSF77]

It was a bad trade. Kuz was a better option on that list.

What they should have done was inked A-Ram to a 3 year deal then let Rizzo develop. 3B would have been stable and LeMaheu would have challenged for 2B. Colvin most likely busts regardless.

What ever water under the bridge. I'm happy with Olt now. Valbuena has HR power also and also takes walks. I'm fine with seeing how it plays out this year. Bryant should be close.

More realistic depth than Vitters and nothing else.

This problem was created by Hendry by not stock piling the farm with quality talent.

 

[patg006]

This is getting silly. I'm very clearly referring to your penchant for attacking inane and long irrelevant comments made by old posters here and back on CBS and trying to act like any of those comments are still relevant to this board and its posters today.

Wrong.

I never did that.

I stated that the comments were made but never said they were made by posters on this board.

That was a completely wasted temper tantrum you threw.

 

[patg006]

This problem was created by Hendry by not stock piling the farm with quality talent.

The problem is as much Theo and Hoyers problem for not adequately filling the major league 3B job.

There have been plenty of viable free agent options that would neither 'albatross' the club nor block any prospect from developing and provided suitable major league production.

The Cubs have not chosen any of those options.

It is ignorant to expect the farm system to supply the solutions for every problem the major league team does. Free Agency is not a guarantee of success either, but usually with a free agent signing the worst case scenario is a below average major league player which is still better than a busted prospect who can't even make the majors and usually only costs the club a few million dollars on a short term deal.

 

[beckdawg]

What they should have done was inked A-Ram to a 3 year deal then let Rizzo develop.

Almost assuredly yes. But again, if it's that clear(was even at the time) that it was the best option then why didn't they do it? The only logical reason appears to be money. If the front office had the discretion to bring him back why wouldn't they have unless other wise forced to cut budget? Saving money does nothing for Theo & co. There's literally no benefit for them to do so which logically means they were told to by ownership.

As for other choices, everyone will differ on who is the better of the bunch but let's be real here, Kevin Kouzmanoff hit .235/.284/.372 the year prior to 2012 and hasn't been in the majors since. And most of the other options were equally grizzly. They tried to make the best of a bad situation and it didn't work out. But frankly, that trade really doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The front office's success and failure doesn't ride on Ian Stewart or Volstad or even the Scott Feldman trade, it rides on Almora, Bryant and the various other prospects they've drafted and acquired via trade. If they are to be successful they will find talent out of those players. If they don't, they will be failures.

 

[theberserkfury]

Wrong.

I never did that.

I stated that the comments were made but never said they were made by posters on this board.

That was a completely wasted temper tantrum you threw.

So basically any comment relating to the Cubs made by just about anyone is worth discussing here?

Why does anyone care what some poster on another board possibly years ago has to say about a topic? Why don't you just stick to commenting on stuff that's actually relevant to today and this board...? Is it too much of a challenge for you to criticize comments made by people who are actually here to defend themselves...?

And lol... "temper tantrum"? All right, pat.

 

[Jntg4]

So basically any comment relating to the Cubs made by just about anyone is worth discussing here?

Why does anyone care what some poster on another board possibly years ago has to say about a topic? Why don't you just stick to commenting on stuff that's actually relevant to today and this board...? Is it too much of a challenge for you to criticize comments made by people who are actually here to defend themselves...?

And lol... "temper tantrum"? All right, pat.

I heard someone say that the Cubs should sign Teuvo Teravainen. Can we please discuss this?

 

[theberserkfury]

I heard someone say that the Cubs should sign Teuvo Teravainen. Can we please discuss this?

Ugh... more fapping to (basically) prospects... let's talk after he's accomplished something in the big leagues.

Although, in a kind of relevant and sincere note, this is a situation where they should sacrifice the year of control if he can help them make a push for the repeat...

 

[SilenceS]

Um, not to be a dick. But, The Stewart trade was dumb. He had a bad rep in Colorado for being selfish. I said back in CBS. Stewart for Colvin fine. Stewart and that horrible pitchr for Colvin and Lemahieu dumb. Lemahieu is a 10 year player in this league. he is smooth on defense and is very versatile. ALso, he has hit at every level. He is the starting 2nd baseman for the Rockies. Stewart is still a selfish *****.

 

[CSF77]

They didn't resign A-Ram because they were trying to get payroll down. Just in that situation with no answer in the pipe and in F/A the best solution is retention.

That answers Pats statement. You need depth at all times. There are time where tossing at a F/A is not available. So a farm can produce said player or a farm can provide as trade goods for that player.

 

[chibears55]

They didn't resign A-Ram because they were trying to get payroll down. Just in that situation with no answer in the pipe and in F/A the best solution is retention.

That answers Pats statement. You need depth at all times. There are time where tossing at a F/A is not available. So a farm can produce said player or a farm can provide as trade goods for that player.

Which after the 2011 season , the cubs had none of in their system.. vitters and jackson were their best prospects and not ready ( still not ).. colvin came off a season hitting under .200.. they had to bring in Lahair just to have a 1Bmen in their system that was major league ready cause they had no one to replace D Lee..
Hendry made some good trades and FA signing but he hurt himself/team with no trade clauses , holding onto vets too long , and not making sure he had depth in system. .

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[chibears55]

Which after the 2011 season , the cubs had none of in their system.. vitters and jackson were their best prospects and not ready ( still not ).. colvin came off a season hitting under .200.. they had to bring in Lahair just to have a 1Bmen in their system that was major league ready cause they had no one to replace D Lee..
Hendry made some good trades and FA signing but he hurt himself/team with no trade clauses , holding onto vets too long , and not making sure he had depth in system. .

They didnt re sign ARam cause he himself said he didn't want to be a part of a rebuild , at 34 this was gonna be his last contract and he wanted to go where they had a chance to win.

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[CSF77]

I get that part that he did not want to be a part of a rebuild. They could have been competitive year 1 with Dempster's year and Sori's rebound. LaHair's 1st half. Just think of that line up with A-Ram hitting 3rd/LaHair 4th and Sori 5th. That is 100 more runs scored just with A-Ram alone. With Maholm and Dempster's strong years they would have had more wins and the Cubs could have been buyers.

But alas hat was not the plan from the start. Rebuild in layman's terms means cost reduction.

 

[chibears55]

I get that part that he did not want to be a part of a rebuild. They could have been competitive year 1 with Dempster's year and Sori's rebound. LaHair's 1st half. Just think of that line up with A-Ram hitting 3rd/LaHair 4th and Sori 5th. That is 100 more runs scored just with A-Ram alone. With Maholm and Dempster's strong years they would have had more wins and the Cubs could have been buyers.

But alas hat was not the plan from the start. Rebuild in layman's terms means cost reduction.

Not disagreeing but remember part of the downfall in 2010 and 2011 was Ramirez slow starts in April/May, so no guarantee they wouldve been competitive , they prob lose 90 games instead of 100.

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[CSF77]

Not disagreeing but remember part of the downfall in 2010 and 2011 was Ramirez slow starts in April/May, so no guarantee they wouldve been competitive , they prob lose 90 games instead of 100.

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you have to go by total production and also build a team that is not co-dependent on one hitter.

Sori was hot in Apr back then and A-Ram picked up with the weather.

But you have to go by total production value.

 

[chibears55]

you have to go by total production and also build a team that is not co-dependent on one hitter.

Sori was hot in Apr back then and A-Ram picked up with the weather.

But you have to go by total production value.

Your right but my point was that despite the total production they still lost 90 games those two years, mostly because of the slow starts he had..
Him getting hot in July and Aug does your team no good when their already 15 games below .500 and 10 games out

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[Boobaby1]

Your right but my point was that despite the total production they still lost 90 games those two years, mostly because of the slow starts he had..
Him getting hot in July and Aug does your team no good when their already 15 games below .500 and 10 games out

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You can't just go by those two years. They were different teams. Derrek Lee was leaving. Soto was here.

Having Castro batting lead-off, Ramirez batting 3rd, Rizzo 4th, Soriano 5th, Schierholtz 6th, Castillo 7th on paper is at least a decent offensive team. Now you are looking for a high OBP in the 2 slot to help set the table.

When you have something like this, sometimes you are in the hunt at the break and buying versus selling. That's why you like to give yourself a chance and stick to the saying that "every season is precious".

 

[chibears55]

You can't just go by those two years. They were different teams. Derrek Lee was leaving. Soto was here.

Having Castro batting lead-off, Ramirez batting 3rd, Rizzo 4th, Soriano 5th, Schierholtz 6th, Castillo 7th on paper is at least a decent offensive team. Now you are looking for a high OBP in the 2 slot to help set the table.

When you have something like this, sometimes you are in the hunt at the break and buying versus selling. That's why you like to give yourself a chance and stick to the saying that "every season is precious".

couple things.. Castillo came up in AUG. and schierholtz wasn't part of the 2012 season and Rizzo came up in June , so you cant jump ahead to the thought process of 2013 and assume it would be the same had they retained ARAM and basically kept things as is with the major team..

next , ARAM early season production still suffered even with a much better team in Milwaukee and a roof on the home stadium( cold weather theory ). he was hitting just .226 late May with 3 HR and 21 RBIs.. plus the injury factor was a concern with re signing him and he did miss most of 2013.. there was a lot of factors going into re signing ARAM or not..

 

[patg006]

Is someone really dumb enough to argue the Cubs shouldn't have kept Ramirez could they would have 'only' won 10 more games a season without having anyone remotely acceptable playing the position the last two years and wouldn't have blocked any of the precious, untouchable, five time future World Series Champion prospects because the player had a bad first month of the season??

bearz99 used to make the same dumb argument.

Oh wait, my bad.

The might have had a worse pick in the amateur draft and missed out on Albert Almora.

They could have ended up with Michael Wacha instead.

Oh the horror.

 

[Boobaby1]

couple things.. Castillo came up in AUG. and schierholtz wasn't part of the 2012 season and Rizzo came up in June , so you cant jump ahead to the thought process of 2013 and assume it would be the same had they retained ARAM and basically kept things as is with the major team..

next , ARAM early season production still suffered even with a much better team in Milwaukee and a roof on the home stadium( cold weather theory ). he was hitting just .226 late May with 3 HR and 21 RBIs.. plus the injury factor was a concern with re signing him and he did miss most of 2013.. there was a lot of factors going into re signing ARAM or not..

Well, I guess I can go back prior to any deals made and give you A-Ram versus signing a cancer named Ian Stewart. Whoops!

That would not have deterred any of the Cubs moves since then, so I am not jumping the thought process because the Cubs could have made every single move they have made to date.

And yes, by that one single move, they would be a whole lot tougher than they currently are/were, and that move alone may have factored them into making different moves.

To say that someone starts slow is foolish thinking.

I would much rather have a hitter getting hot late when it counts. It's called an average for a reason, and A-Ram was by far the best all-around power hitter the Cubs have had since Ryan Sandberg. And yes, by virtue of his low strikeout rate and high OBP, I have him ahead of D-Lee too.