Expectations for Justin Fields vs other good rookies.

bears51/40

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True, Lions lost due to terrible defensive play, not because of Stafford
For the most part this is true. Stafford has had middling defense in a few of those years 13th, 16th, 18th, 18th,not good but also not horrible. You could argue that a very good QB should have gotten the Lions over the hump in some of those years. Lions also had two top 10 ranked defenses in Stafford's years in Detroit.
 

nc0gnet0

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For the most part this is true. Stafford has had middling defense in a few of those years 13th, 16th, 18th, 18th,not good but also not horrible. You could argue that a very good QB should have gotten the Lions over the hump in some of those years. Lions also had two top 10 ranked defenses in Stafford's years in Detroit.
Top ten one of those years, and that is the year they got jobbed by the officials against Dallas.
 

nc0gnet0

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Pace picks Fields because Nagy is sold on Fields due to his discussions with Day. Nagy is also sold on Fields because again he can make every throw Darnold can make, is a better runner and had better college production.

Your claim that it is in a different manner than Pace when Pace did in fact chose Fields is fucking moronic. You are literally making up a scenario that did not happen and presuming based on worthless draft experts that your scenario would come to pass when the reality is Pace and Nagy chose Fields.

You need really compelling evidence beyond Mel Kiper had Darnold ranked higher to ignore the actual reality that occurred in this universe where Pace and Nagy did in fact trade up for Fields. The hubris of a Lions fan pretending he knows what Pace would do in an alternate reality when it is quite obvious they loved Fields is amazing.
Classic, accuses me of logical Fallacy and then trots out this gem.....

The hubris of a Lions fan pretending he knows what Pace would do in an alternate reality when it is quite obvious they loved Fields is amazing.

Straw man much?

Quit while your only a little behind.

Pace picks Darnold because Nagy is sold on Darnold due to his discussions with blah blah blah. Nagy is also sold on Darnold because of his better pocket awareness, his ability to make quicker decisions, and doesn't panic when under pressure. he just got done with one mental midget that couldn't make quick decisions, he doesn't want to do it again.

Your claim that it is in a different manner than Pace when Pace did in fact chose Fields is fucking moronic. You are literally making up a scenario that did not happen and presuming based on worthless draft experts that your scenario would come to pass when the reality is Pace and Nagy chose Fields.

Pace and Nagy choosing Fields means nothing in this topic of discussion, or did you miss that point? You are literally grasping at straws here now. The question was, and listen closely , who was the better prospect, Darnold or Fields? If both would have been available, which one would have Pace chosen?

You have not provided one argument other that personal conjecture that if both available as rookies in the same draft, Pace would have chosen Fields.

You seem to have it in your mind I am trying to tear down Fields, when I am on record as saying I think he was a great (albeit lucky) pick. But nothing, and I Repeat nothing, in Pace's past history supports your argument.

You have also once again taken where I was going with this and spun it down your remy vortex. The point is, Darnold is a perfect example of a good prospect potentially ruined by piss poor development and supporting cast. It will be very interesting to see what Joe Brady can do with him, who I have much more faith in that I do Nagy. Nothing, and I repeat nothing Nagy has done should give anyone any confidence he is capable of developing a rookie QB and playing to his strengths.

But alas, Nagy, the QB savant should be trusted more the Joe Brady, who preferred to have Darnold over Fields.
 
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Discus fish salesman

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I'm confused. Who gives a shit whether they pick fields or darnold? They literally had that option this offseason and chose fields. Also whose to say darnold won't be much better outside that train wreck he was brought into. Regardless of Nagy being an idiot, the Bears offense is in considerably better shape than the Jets were at any point with darnold
 

bears51/40

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Top ten one of those years, and that is the year they got jobbed by the officials against Dallas.
Weren't they ranked 10 on defense in 2018? If I remember the playoff loss to Dallas, though there was that horrible call where the refs picked up the flag, the Lions still had chances to win that game late.
 

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True, Lions lost due to terrible defensive play, not because of Stafford
Yet with Jim Schwartz as HC who is proven defensive commodity, they had one winning season of the 6 he was there.
 

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Proven as a DC, not as a HC
That's exactly what I said and sort of the point. His D and the Lions still sucked with Stafford.
 

remydat

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Classic, accuses me of logical Fallacy and then trots out this gem.....

The hubris of a Lions fan pretending he knows what Pace would do in an alternate reality when it is quite obvious they loved Fields is amazing.

Straw man much?

Quit while your only a little behind.

Pace picks Darnold because Nagy is sold on Darnold due to his discussions with blah blah blah. Nagy is also sold on Darnold because of his better pocket awareness, his ability to make quicker decisions, and doesn't panic when under pressure. he just got done with one mental midget that couldn't make quick decisions, he doesn't want to do it again.

Your claim that it is in a different manner than Pace when Pace did in fact chose Fields is fucking moronic. You are literally making up a scenario that did not happen and presuming based on worthless draft experts that your scenario would come to pass when the reality is Pace and Nagy chose Fields.

Pace and Nagy choosing Fields means nothing in this topic of discussion, or did you miss that point? You are literally grasping at straws here now. The question was, and listen closely , who was the better prospect, Darnold or Fields? If both would have been available, which one would have Pace chosen?

You have not provided one argument other that personal conjecture that if both available as rookies in the same draft, Pace would have chosen Fields.

You seem to have it in your mind I am trying to tear down Fields, when I am on record as saying I think he was a great (albeit lucky) pick. But nothing, and I Repeat nothing, in Pace's past history supports your argument.

You have also once again taken where I was going with this and spun it down your remy vortex. The point is, Darnold is a perfect example of a good prospect potentially ruined by piss poor development and supporting cast. It will be very interesting to see what Joe Brady can do with him, who I have much more faith in that I do Nagy. Nothing, and I repeat nothing Nagy has done should give anyone any confidence he is capable of developing a rookie QB and playing to his strengths.

But alas, Nagy, the QB savant should be trusted more the Joe Brady, who preferred to have Darnold over Fields.

You still seem confused. You are literally making stuff up as you go. We don't know how Pace or Nagy felt about Darnold because they never seriously scouted him since they had Trubisky. So your entire premise is fan fiction from a Lions fan pretending he knows what Bears management would do. It is fantasy.

No the question was not who is the better prospect. The question was who would Pace and Nagy take. And my answer once again is Fields because Fields is a comparable passer but a better runner and had more actual production. That is a very logical stance that does not rely on me inventing scenarios where I pretend Pace and Nagy are besties and I know what is in their heart of hearts.

I keep asking you what makes Darnold a better prospect in your eyes and you can't answer. All you can do is point to draft experts who routinely get it wrong which again is an appeal to authority. What makes these experts opinions valid? What did they say about Darnold that makes him better than Fields. You simply cannot answer because their opinions are devoid of any real analysis. It is just assertions made with no actual evidence. Show me the detailed comparison between the two where someone goes through the strengths and weaknesses of both? Otherwise, again all you are doing is appealing to authority which is in fact a logical fallacy.

P.S. This debate has nothing to do with who one thinks is better at molding a young QB. That is moving the goalposts. Your only question that I responded to is who would Pace take.
 

remydat

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Now to address your completely different question that had nothing to do with the original question. Your argument for Brady is devoid of any real logic. You assert you trust Brady more but offer no evidence as to why. Probably because there is no evidence as to why. Brady doesn't have a single young QB he has developed in the NFL. Last season despite all the weapons on the Panthers, the Panthers O scored less than the Bears O. He coached up Teddy B to 15 TDs and 11 Ints and a lower QB rating that Trubisky.

So your assertion has no objective evidence to back it up which is par for the course. You just say stuff and expect people to believe it. Nagy helped develop Mahomes. DeFillipo helped develop Wentz. That is 2 guys that won NFL MVP early in their careers.

It is clear you are just running your mouth and do very little research. This is just as bad as claiming Fields had better weapons than Darnold in college. Brady is untested at the NFL level as a developer of QBs. The best you can point to is Joe Burrow but that was college which is a different ball game altogether. So let's revisit this when Brady actually does something at the NFL level to warrant the faith you put into him as right now all you are doing is sharing your biased opinion with no real evidence to back it up.
 

nc0gnet0

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You still seem confused. You are literally making stuff up as you go. We don't know how Pace or Nagy felt about Darnold because they never seriously scouted him since they had Trubisky. So your entire premise is fan fiction from a Lions fan pretending he knows what Bears management would do. It is fantasy.

No the question was not who is the better prospect. The question was who would Pace and Nagy take. And my answer once again is Fields because Fields is a comparable passer but a better runner and had more actual production. That is a very logical stance that does not rely on me inventing scenarios where I pretend Pace and Nagy are besties and I know what is in their heart of hearts.

I keep asking you what makes Darnold a better prospect in your eyes and you can't answer. All you can do is point to draft experts who routinely get it wrong which again is an appeal to authority. What makes these experts opinions valid? What did they say about Darnold that makes him better than Fields. You simply cannot answer because their opinions are devoid of any real analysis. It is just assertions made with no actual evidence. Show me the detailed comparison between the two where someone goes through the strengths and weaknesses of both? Otherwise, again all you are doing is appealing to authority which is in fact a logical fallacy.

P.S. This debate has nothing to do with who one thinks is better at molding a young QB. That is moving the goalposts. Your only question that I responded to is who would Pace take.

The stupid never tops with this one.

You still seem confused. You are literally making stuff up as you go. We don't know how Pace or Nagy felt about Darnold because they never seriously scouted him since they had Trubisky. So your entire premise is fan fiction from a Lions fan pretending he knows what Bears management would do. It is fantasy.

As the overall consensus dictates (that would be a majority for those that are perpetual confused) that Darnold was the better prospect, the chances are better that they would have chosen Darnold. It's really not rocket science.

No the question was not who is the better prospect. The question was who would Pace and Nagy take. And my answer once again is Fields because Fields is a comparable passer but a better runner and had more actual production. That is a very logical stance that does not rely on me inventing scenarios where I pretend Pace and Nagy are besties and I know what is in their heart of hearts.

So your saying that Pace would not have chosen the better prospect? LOL, ok..................

I keep asking you what makes Darnold a better prospect in your eyes and you can't answer. All you can do is point to draft experts who routinely get it wrong which again is an appeal to authority. What makes these experts opinions valid? What did they say about Darnold that makes him better than Fields. You simply cannot answer because their opinions are devoid of any real analysis. It is just assertions made with no actual evidence. Show me the detailed comparison between the two where someone goes through the strengths and weaknesses of both? Otherwise, again all you are doing is appealing to authority which is in fact a logical fallacy.

And more blah blah blah. Logic dictates they would have been in the majority, and i have shown you that the majority of the ratings have Darnold rated higher than Fields. That is a logical progression, not a fallacy. I never claimed it was an absolute, so stop with the mind numbingly stupid argument of fallacy, and drop the straw man argument while your at it, being a fan of what ever team has not bearing on any of this. It would be like me saying, "your a Bears fan, what would you know about competent QB play"?
 

nc0gnet0

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Now to address your completely different question that had nothing to do with the original question. Your argument for Brady is devoid of any real logic. You assert you trust Brady more but offer no evidence as to why. Probably because there is no evidence as to why. Brady doesn't have a single young QB he has developed in the NFL. Last season despite all the weapons on the Panthers, the Panthers O scored less than the Bears O. He coached up Teddy B to 15 TDs and 11 Ints and a lower QB rating that Trubisky.

So your assertion has no objective evidence to back it up which is par for the course. You just say stuff and expect people to believe it. Nagy helped develop Mahomes. DeFillipo helped develop Wentz. That is 2 guys that won NFL MVP early in their careers.

It is clear you are just running your mouth and do very little research. This is just as bad as claiming Fields had better weapons than Darnold in college. Brady is untested at the NFL level as a developer of QBs. The best you can point to is Joe Burrow but that was college which is a different ball game altogether. So let's revisit this when Brady actually does something at the NFL level to warrant the faith you put into him as right now all you are doing is sharing your biased opinion with no real evidence to back it up.
Joe Burrow says hi. Nagy is not untested, so far he is an absolute failure at QB development. Also witness Ryan Tannehill after he got away from the putz named Gase.
 

remydat

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The stupid never tops with this one.

You still seem confused. You are literally making stuff up as you go. We don't know how Pace or Nagy felt about Darnold because they never seriously scouted him since they had Trubisky. So your entire premise is fan fiction from a Lions fan pretending he knows what Bears management would do. It is fantasy.

As the overall consensus dictates (that would be a majority for those that are perpetual confused) that Darnold was the better prospect, the chances are better that they would have chosen Darnold. It's really not rocket science.

No the question was not who is the better prospect. The question was who would Pace and Nagy take. And my answer once again is Fields because Fields is a comparable passer but a better runner and had more actual production. That is a very logical stance that does not rely on me inventing scenarios where I pretend Pace and Nagy are besties and I know what is in their heart of hearts.

So your saying that Pace would not have chosen the better prospect? LOL, ok..................

I keep asking you what makes Darnold a better prospect in your eyes and you can't answer. All you can do is point to draft experts who routinely get it wrong which again is an appeal to authority. What makes these experts opinions valid? What did they say about Darnold that makes him better than Fields. You simply cannot answer because their opinions are devoid of any real analysis. It is just assertions made with no actual evidence. Show me the detailed comparison between the two where someone goes through the strengths and weaknesses of both? Otherwise, again all you are doing is appealing to authority which is in fact a logical fallacy.

And more blah blah blah. Logic dictates they would have been in the majority, and i have shown you that the majority of the ratings have Darnold rated higher than Fields. That is a logical progression, not a fallacy. I never claimed it was an absolute, so stop with the mind numbingly stupid argument of fallacy, and drop the straw man argument while your at it, being a fan of what ever team has not bearing on any of this. It would be like me saying, "your a Bears fan, what would you know about competent QB play"?

No there is no overall consensus. You cited three TV scouts whose opinions are bullshit. My point was the question was not who fake experts thought was better but who Pace would take. Presuming that Darnold is better simply because 3 guys say so and pretending 3 guys is the majority or a consensus is functionally stupid.

You don't have a consensus dummy. You have 3 guys who you cherry picked because their opinion agreed to yours. The stupidity here is Jeremiah and Kiper had Trubisky over Watson and Mahomes so you are touting guys who are failures when it comes to QB evaluation. As they both were wrong about Darnold thus far, their defense of him could simply be their inability to admit they were wrong. Just as they were wrong about Trubisky.

Joe Burrow says hi. Nagy is not untested, so far he is an absolute failure at QB development. Also witness Ryan Tannehill after he got away from the putz named Gase.

Again can you read? I already said the best you can say is Joe Burrow but that is a bullshit answer because that is college. No one claims someone is a great NFL developer of QB talent based on what they did in college. That is a functionally stupid position. Also Tannenhill has nothing to do with Joe Brady. Finally, Nagy and DeFillipo have actually MVPs they can say they developed in the NFL not college in Mahomes and Wentz.
 
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250 a week x 16 = 4,000 yards
2 tds a week x 16 = 32 (passing and rushing)
1 int a week = 16

I could see something like that. Doesn't include rushing yardage.
 

VickAshley✅️verified

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Joe Burrow says hi. Nagy is not untested, so far he is an absolute failure at QB development. Also witness Ryan Tannehill after he got away from the putz named Gase.
I will never understand why you think you can post about Matt Nagy regarding "QB developmenting" because you are literally saying he was supposed to develop qb like Nick Foles whomst is literally a veteran and journey-man or Mitchell Trubisky whomst is literally a back up quarterback? How does one develop a already developed QB or a QB whomst isn't even a starter caliber QB? Are you kidding me?
 

Anytime23

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I will never understand why you think you can post about Matt Nagy regarding "QB developmenting" because you are literally saying he was supposed to develop qb like Nick Foles whomst is literally a veteran and journey-man or Mitchell Trubisky whomst is literally a back up quarterback? How does one develop a already developed QB or a QB whomst isn't even a starter caliber QB? Are you kidding me?
wrecked him Vick. WOW!
 

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