Expectations for Justin Fields vs other good rookies.

[SlickWilly]

I expect him not to start, so I'm not going to let you know what I expect if the thing I don't expect to happen ends up happening...

If he starts the team will do worse passing wise. All receivers will generate less stats and RBs will face more run heavy fronts. This isn't specific to Fields, but just what happens with rookie QBs. Even great QBs like Russell Wilson had a 'game manager' type rookie season. It's just what happens when someone is making the transition.

For you Bears fans what I'm most fearful of is that he starts too early and becomes more of a runner than a passer. I'm facing the same issue with Jalen Hurts. Last year the OL was a jail break, so he looked better because he could use his athleticism to make plays. I'm worried that his success as a runner will hurt his development as a passer. I know there's always someone using Lamar Jackson as the example of how it can work, but I'd remind them outside of his truly amazing 2019 MVP season in terms of overall offensive efficiency it hasn't been all that great. This past season in15 games he passed for only 2757 yards (~184 yards/gm). This falls short of 3127 in 2019, but still seems fairly normal. It's great that he rushed for over 1000 yards for the 2nd straight season, but you have to wonder if that's sustainable? We've seen similar running ability from Mike Vick, Vince Young and Cam Newton only to realize that wasn't something a 10+ year career is built off of.

I want to be very clear, the fact that he's an exceptional athlete is a good thing. The issue I have is that he's making a large transition and I think a year of learning would do him good and I also think giving him too much too early will create certain habits that could slow his development as a passer.

I know this post is your opinion but you make it seem like it’s a guarantee for all rookies. If Fields started the season, he very well could have a Herbert or Prescott type of rookie season. Because of his athleticism and accuracy, he might allow for all weapons on the offense to increase their stats.

I don’t think using Hurts, Jackson, Young or Newton are good examples. They came from college programs where they were used as runners. Running has always been in their DNA. Fields has always been pass first. He does use his legs, but isn’t always looking to run and I think that will transition into the NFL.

I also don’t think you would have to throw a lot at him his rookie year. If the running game stays consistent, I think a mixture of simple concepts can go a long way. A couple of athletic plays, accurate balls and connections on deep passes can make defenses back off. A big reason the offense was terrible under Glennon, Trubisky, Foles was because of accuracy issues and no deep balls.

And also, the reason Wilson had a "game manager" type rookie season is because Lynch ran for 1600 yards. He didn't have to throw as much with running production like that. And he still threw for 8 yards a pop and a 100 QB rating.

 

[Bearly]

Same reason Zach Wilson was this year.

They could make bum-slaying look pretty at the NCAA level even though they struggled against good college defenses, interviewed/tested impeccably, and had really pretty pro-day tapes without pads or NFL speed defensive ends trying to earhole them. There was a clear-cut #1 guy ahead of him draft-wise (Mayfield then and Lawrence this year) so pundits/fans needed to fawn over him to create controversy/change up otherwise monotonous draft talk during Feb-April.

As for Fields--keep things simple--adjust to NFL level speed, and be better than a half-field, one read guy more than Mitch. Hopefully after some experience--he can get to a point where he could see the open guy over the top the way Mitch never could.

I have a higher regard for Wilson than I did Darnold. Other than size, Wilson has some great tools and mechanics but he's also great off platform with a VG deep ball. Obviously, the transition to the NFL for a small QB that didn't face the top Ds is difficult but he has the tools. Who did 5-7 Mahomes face and what besides his arm talent said NFL?

Darnolds mechanics were all over the place when pressured and his long ball hangs. I like risk takers at QB which both are but Darnold was also streaky with his accuracy which makes that risk taking more questionable. I see Darnold as possibly becoming a decent starter but he'll have to become a less aggressive ball distributor with more consistent mechanics. Wilson fit that gunslinger mode much more comfortably if he doesn't get shell shocked.

 

[Bearly]

Mahomes played 1 game his rookie year. You can't really compare Mahomes 2nd year to a rookie QB because he had the luxury of learning for almost an entire year.

So this. Why does it always come up in rookie compares when it's exactly the opposite of the argument it's used in?

Neither Jackson or Hurts were as well regarded passing the ball as Fields. Both were 1k yard rushers in college because rushing was a large part of their game. Fields never rushed for more than 500 yards despite 4.4 speed. That tells us he was much more comfortable throwing the ball than either Jackson or Hurts. Hell even Watson had a 1k yard season rushing. It simply was not the focal point for Fields. He ran when he had too.

I suppose there is always a risk he can develop happy feet in the NFL but I think his arm talent is too good for him to defer to running and he is well aware of how good his arm is. Jackson and Hurts are running QBs who are trying to develop as passers. Fields is a passer who simply has the elite athleticism to run if necessary.

Fields will not become a running QB but a pocket passer than can run when stuff breaks down or the D slacks off. The staff is already telling him to take what's given on the ground in practice. He's concentrated on making plays from the pocket because his focus has been on reads and becoming a great NFL QB. He realizes that in this league, it starts from the pocket. He needs to be comfortable enough in the O and route options to be able to peek at the rush more. Won't take him long but he's likely to take sacks if he starts early. That's how much he wants to wait on routes and throw vertical. It's a minor flaw but even in college, he sometimes waited too long to ditch but the trade off was big plays which are game changers.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

I have a higher regard for Wilson than I did Darnold.

You've also gotten to see 3 years of Sam Darnold sucking at the NFL level. Can't help but think this influences your decision a bit whereas Wilson/everybody else just drafted are still in the "honeymoon" phase where you haven't seen them on the field and don't know they suck or are decent yet. Wilson's scouting report is still fresh because the draft was a month and a half ago whereas you probably have to google Darnold's USC scouting/draft profile to refresh.

Spoiler alert--minus size which you've alluded to--they're pretty parallel. And FWIW--I'm not defending Darnold and know he's nothing special/a bust with a great chance to be out of the league in 2 years. I feel for him because he was put in a pretty shitty situation in NY--a year of a defensive-minded coach followed by Cocaine Eyes Gase. A lot like Mitch except Nagy's playbook is lots more complex than Gase's and he didn't completely/laughably lose the lockerroom here.

Wilson has some great tools and mechanics but he's also great off platform with a VG deep ball. Obviously, the transition to the NFL for a small QB that didn't face the top Ds is difficult but he has the tools. Who did 5-7 Mahomes face and what besides his arm talent said NFL?

Back in 2018 pundits said Darnold had the tools. Again, we've seen him suck/be injured/ill for 3 years--and given the state of NFL prospect (namely QB) development in 2021, 3 years for a QB to figure it out as a starter is generous for fans, media, and lots of teams.

Mahomes played against the Big 12, which wasn't elite by any stretch, but has far better competition than what BYU played in 2020. He struggled too, but he also had a unique opportunity that Wilson isn't going to have the luxury of--a HOF coach who wasn't going anywhere and one of the most efficient QBs of the last decade while he got to sit and watch/learn from. He put the rest together himself

Mahomes also faced 4 ranked opponents in the 5-7 season (Oklahoma, TCU, WV, and Ok St.) If we want to get overly technical--Mahomes faced 5 'top-half defenses' (so top 65 defenses) in the NCAA in 2016-17 (including two in the top 30), whereas Wilson faced only 1 (Coastal Carolina who finished ranked #18 overall) in 2020.

 

[Bearly]

You've also gotten to see 3 years of Sam Darnold sucking at the NFL level. Can't help but think this influences your decision a bit whereas Wilson/everybody else just drafted are still in the "honeymoon" phase where you haven't seen them on the field and don't know they suck or are decent yet. Wilson's scouting report is still fresh because the draft was a month and a half ago whereas you probably have to google Darnold's USC scouting/draft profile to refresh.

Spoiler alert--minus size which you've alluded to--they're pretty parallel. And FWIW--I'm not defending Darnold and know he's nothing special/a bust with a great chance to be out of the league in 2 years. I feel for him because he was put in a pretty shitty situation in NY--a year of a defensive-minded coach followed by Cocaine Eyes Gase. A lot like Mitch except Nagy's playbook is lots more complex than Gase's.


Back in 2018 pundits said Darnold had the tools. Again, we've seen him suck for 3 years--and given the state of NFL prospect (namely QB) development in 2021, 3 years for a QB to figure it out as a starter is generous for fans, media, and lots of teams.

Mahomes played against the Big 12, which wasn't elite by any stretch, but has far better competition than what BYU played in 2020. He struggled too, but he also had a unique opportunity that Wilson isn't going to have the luxury of--a HOF coach who wasn't going anywhere and one of the most efficient QBs of the last decade while he got to sit and watch/learn from. He put the rest together himself

Mahomes also faced 4 ranked opponents in the 5-7 season (Oklahoma, TCU, WV, and Ok St.) If we want to get overly technical--Mahomes faced 5 'top-half defenses' (so top 65 defenses) in the NCAA in 2016-17 (including two in the top 30), whereas Wilson faced only 1 (Coastal Carolina) in 2020.

but did he win all those? Anything can be spun. My point was it's a team game and not just about QB record or competition. I like Wilson but could see him fail and I personally didn't like Darnold that high before he was drafted but he may still succeed. It's not science. Just my opinions on them.

I suspect Wilson throws a lot of picks this year but figures it out in a year or 2. I have some question in his ability to read because of that competition level but that's hard to project for any college QB. The other thing is his size/build but if he stays relatively healthy and doesn't flinch, I think he'll be good. Wouldn't be the 1st time I was wrong if not.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

but did he win all those? Anything can be spun. My point was it's a team game and not just about QB record or competition

Your initial question was why Darnold was drafted high as he was, which was #3 overall and I was alluding to Zach Wilson's meteoric rise from being maybe a mid-late round pick at the start of 2020 to being the #2 overall pick on draft day. I see parallels between the two of them from the end of the season to draft days 2018 and 2021.

I liked each for certain reasons and disliked each for certain reasons coming out of college. You like Wilson more than Darnold whereas for me its 6 in one, half a dozen in the other. There's nothing wrong with that.

You brought up Mahomes' college record when I mentioned Wilson at BYU, like Darnold at USC could bum slay with the best bust looked pedestrian more often than not against superior competition. I just brought up context about the position Mahomes was put in when KC drafted him versus the position Darnold was put in NY--now Wilson in NY. Darnold had it worst--but he still has to play well and hasn't which is why the Jets moved on. Wilson is better off than Darnold--because short of being a criminal Saleh isn't going anywhere anytime soon (though OCs may change if he's good enough). Mahomes was put in the best position to succeed.

 

[Bearly]

I said I didn't understand why he was ranked so high but it was an expression of disagreement. I don't need a run down. I thought he was too inconsistent with his mechanics and reads for the spot.

Why I brought up Mahomes competition. He slayed bums and lost to the ranked teams. The point was it's not about team records with QBs. I'm fully aware Wilsons stats are inflated due to competition level. That's not why I like him. And before anything else gets misinterpreted, I liked Mahomes. I like Fields more than Wilson overall due to build if nothing else and I liked Mitch fine coming out. I was hoping the Bears trad down and take the best available QB at 8-12 in 2017. I didn't see that much between them. Just different attributes and issues. Had no idea Mitch was so vapid.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Did you bother to research anything? Darnold played with Ronald Jones, Juju and a young Micahel Pittman Jr. That is 2 WRs drafted in the 2nd round and a 2nd round RB. So no Fields did not play with much better skill position players. You are 100% full of shit there. Juju was a 1,000 yard WR in college. Olave and Wilson have yet to put up 1k yard seasons and we don't know how they will fare in the NFL although they may end up drafted early if they continue to progress just as Pittman did after Darnold left.

There is no fact remains. You asked who we would take if we were Pace. I am telling you I would take Fields. I don't give a shit if others have Darnold higher just like I didn't give a shit that draft experts, the Browns and the Bears apparently had Trubisky higher than Watson and Mahomes.

In looking at their passing ability, there isn't a single thing Darnold does that Fields can't do. And once again the fact remains that Fields had better production and is a much better runner. So rather than trumpet draft experts who are wrong all the time when it comes to QBs, what are you claiming makes Darnold better?

Blah Blah Blah.


Kiper
"
Despite a strong showing by Justin Fields in last Friday's Sugar Bowl and College Football Playoff semifinal rout of Clemson, which Mel Kiper Jr. believes solidified the Ohio State junior quarterback's 2021 NFL Draft stock as a high-first-round pick, should the New York Jets take Fields with the No. 2 overall selection? Kiper favored the Jets sticking with quarterback Sam Darnold for a fourth year in 2021 and either shopping the pick or taking Oregon offensive tackle Penei Sewell.

"No, I would not," Kiper said Tuesday morning on ESPN's Get Up when asked by show host Mike Greenberg if the Jets should make a move for Fields. "I think the Jets move forward with Sam Darnold. Greeny, when I go back and check, the rating on Sam Darnold is right behind (Buffalo Bills') Josh Allen on my (2018 NFL Draft) quarterback board. His rating will be higher than Justin Fields' rating, end ranking. So I think you look at that. They already know Sam Darnold. He knows them. He's shown promise. He needs the right coach, the right people around him. I would move forward with Sam Darnold.

"Hopefully, Cincinnati is thinking, 'Hey, we need Penei Sewell. We can move up from five to two, make that deal with the Jets, get a tackle, the Jets are stuck there, take Sewell.' You've got two of the best bookend tackles in the league in Mekhi Becton and Penei Sewell, helping out Sam Darnold. So, no, I would not take Justin Fields at two if I'm the Jets. I would either trade down or take the offensive tackle and move forward — like I said, Greeny — with Sam Darnold."

Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
·
Mar 29

(Let me try this again) Interesting to insert Sam Darnold’s availability into this draft class. Obviously, that will determine what the Jets do at pick 2. For me, he would be 3rd.
1) Trevor Lawrence
2) Zach Wilson
3) Sam Darnold
4) Trey Lance
5) Justin Fields
6) Mac Jones

Fields Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com



How ready is he for the NFL game?

“It’s all the full-field read stuff and making decisions, just quickening up the pace,” an AFC scout said. “He’s one of those pre-programmed guys: When it’s clean and everything’s there, it’s easy for him. And he’s got arm talent. He can spin it deep. But it’s more blitz recognition and just seeing it.”

“It’s just going to require a commitment to an offensive system that’s going to tailor to his strengths,” an AFC executive said. “Asking him to drop back and read it and go through progressions -- you’re asking for disappointment.”

 

[Bearly]

Goes on to trumpet more draft experts.

Darnold threw 26 TDs and 13 INTs his last year in college. Fields had 2 bad games this year but he was still instrumental in winning those. One of those, he still threw for 300 yards and had a 146 rating. (Darnold's last year in college was a 148 rating). The other was a stinker against NW that likely had him drop to us. In that game neither int was a bad throw. One should have easily been an incompletion at worst (end zone) and the other was him and the WR on different pages. He threw an out and the WR went up. Ohio state RB had huge holes because NW was concentrating on stopping Fields. They succeeded at the Fields part but it cost them the game as Sermon ran for 331 yards.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Blah Blah Blah.


Kiper
"
Despite a strong showing by Justin Fields in last Friday's Sugar Bowl and College Football Playoff semifinal rout of Clemson, which Mel Kiper Jr. believes solidified the Ohio State junior quarterback's 2021 NFL Draft stock as a high-first-round pick, should the New York Jets take Fields with the No. 2 overall selection? Kiper favored the Jets sticking with quarterback Sam Darnold for a fourth year in 2021 and either shopping the pick or taking Oregon offensive tackle Penei Sewell.

"No, I would not," Kiper said Tuesday morning on ESPN's Get Up when asked by show host Mike Greenberg if the Jets should make a move for Fields. "I think the Jets move forward with Sam Darnold. Greeny, when I go back and check, the rating on Sam Darnold is right behind (Buffalo Bills') Josh Allen on my (2018 NFL Draft) quarterback board. His rating will be higher than Justin Fields' rating, end ranking. So I think you look at that. They already know Sam Darnold. He knows them. He's shown promise. He needs the right coach, the right people around him. I would move forward with Sam Darnold.

"Hopefully, Cincinnati is thinking, 'Hey, we need Penei Sewell. We can move up from five to two, make that deal with the Jets, get a tackle, the Jets are stuck there, take Sewell.' You've got two of the best bookend tackles in the league in Mekhi Becton and Penei Sewell, helping out Sam Darnold. So, no, I would not take Justin Fields at two if I'm the Jets. I would either trade down or take the offensive tackle and move forward — like I said, Greeny — with Sam Darnold."

Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
·
Mar 29

(Let me try this again) Interesting to insert Sam Darnold’s availability into this draft class. Obviously, that will determine what the Jets do at pick 2. For me, he would be 3rd.
1) Trevor Lawrence
2) Zach Wilson
3) Sam Darnold
4) Trey Lance
5) Justin Fields
6) Mac Jones

Fields Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com



How ready is he for the NFL game?

“It’s all the full-field read stuff and making decisions, just quickening up the pace,” an AFC scout said. “He’s one of those pre-programmed guys: When it’s clean and everything’s there, it’s easy for him. And he’s got arm talent. He can spin it deep. But it’s more blitz recognition and just seeing it.”

“It’s just going to require a commitment to an offensive system that’s going to tailor to his strengths,” an AFC executive said. “Asking him to drop back and read it and go through progressions -- you’re asking for disappointment.”

This is completely non-objective.. lol Mel Kiper is a moron. You can't go back and erase Sam Darnold's NFL career and pretend you never saw that shit and check out his QB rankings.. fuck this guy and fuck the lions.

 

[MikeDitkaPolishSausage]

And also, the reason Wilson had a "game manager" type rookie season is because Lynch ran for 1600 yards. He didn't have to throw as much with running production like that. And he still threw for 8 yards a pop and a 100 QB rating.

Good point. I can care less if Fields is a game manager his rookie season as long as he shows something like Wilson did. Like I mentioned, complete deep passes, accuracy on all sorts of passes, pocket presence, etc.

 

[remydat]

Blah Blah Blah.


Kiper
"
Despite a strong showing by Justin Fields in last Friday's Sugar Bowl and College Football Playoff semifinal rout of Clemson, which Mel Kiper Jr. believes solidified the Ohio State junior quarterback's 2021 NFL Draft stock as a high-first-round pick, should the New York Jets take Fields with the No. 2 overall selection? Kiper favored the Jets sticking with quarterback Sam Darnold for a fourth year in 2021 and either shopping the pick or taking Oregon offensive tackle Penei Sewell.

"No, I would not," Kiper said Tuesday morning on ESPN's Get Up when asked by show host Mike Greenberg if the Jets should make a move for Fields. "I think the Jets move forward with Sam Darnold. Greeny, when I go back and check, the rating on Sam Darnold is right behind (Buffalo Bills') Josh Allen on my (2018 NFL Draft) quarterback board. His rating will be higher than Justin Fields' rating, end ranking. So I think you look at that. They already know Sam Darnold. He knows them. He's shown promise. He needs the right coach, the right people around him. I would move forward with Sam Darnold.

"Hopefully, Cincinnati is thinking, 'Hey, we need Penei Sewell. We can move up from five to two, make that deal with the Jets, get a tackle, the Jets are stuck there, take Sewell.' You've got two of the best bookend tackles in the league in Mekhi Becton and Penei Sewell, helping out Sam Darnold. So, no, I would not take Justin Fields at two if I'm the Jets. I would either trade down or take the offensive tackle and move forward — like I said, Greeny — with Sam Darnold."

Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
·
Mar 29

(Let me try this again) Interesting to insert Sam Darnold’s availability into this draft class. Obviously, that will determine what the Jets do at pick 2. For me, he would be 3rd.
1) Trevor Lawrence
2) Zach Wilson
3) Sam Darnold
4) Trey Lance
5) Justin Fields
6) Mac Jones

Fields Mike Rosenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com



How ready is he for the NFL game?

“It’s all the full-field read stuff and making decisions, just quickening up the pace,” an AFC scout said. “He’s one of those pre-programmed guys: When it’s clean and everything’s there, it’s easy for him. And he’s got arm talent. He can spin it deep. But it’s more blitz recognition and just seeing it.”

“It’s just going to require a commitment to an offensive system that’s going to tailor to his strengths,” an AFC executive said. “Asking him to drop back and read it and go through progressions -- you’re asking for disappointment.”

Are you mental? Your claim was Fields had a better supporting cast. That claim is wrong as Darnold had Juju, Pittman and Jones.

I already said I dont care about draft experts and you respond with draft experts. It is like you are arguing with someone else. You did not ask what draft experts said. You asked what we would do as Pace. The draft experts were wrong about Trubisky over Watson. I was right. So again I dont give a shit about what they say. I am aware draft experts get QB rankings wrong so not sure your point.

Ok, so in some alternate universe, where both Fields and Darnold are in the same draft class, and both are available when Pace makes his selection, who do you think he picks? And this is without any knowledge of how he did with NY.

I answered your original question as stipulated. Your are moving goalposts now. You asked for our opinion not for what fallible draft experts thought.

So again, Fields can do everything as a passer that Darnold can but he is a better runner and had better production. You have yet to offer a substantive rebuttal to that.

Instead you default to the logical fallacy of appealing to authority except in this case you are relying on draft experts many of whose opinions I do not value so your use of this logical fallacy is worthless. Not only is it an appeal to authority but it is an appeal to false authority as there is little evidence that Kiper or DJ have any special ability to predict QB success.

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Bearly]

The thing I am most concerned about with Fields is pocket presence vs the rush. It's difficult to know what that will be like based on his college O so I'm not overly concerned but it's something I'll look for. He has said that he's into extending plays and going for the jugular but he'll need to be more rush aware to continue that maturation.

 

[remydat]

The thing I am most concerned about with Fields is pocket presence vs the rush. It's difficult to know what that will be like based on his college O so I'm not overly concerned but it's something I'll look for. He has said that he's into extending plays and going for the jugular but he'll need to be more rush aware to continue that maturation.

Given his penchant for throwing downfield I expect like Wilson and Watson, it is something we will have to live with. The question is whether his big plays will outweigh the negative ones in the long run.

 

[Bearly]

Given his penchant for throwing downfield I expect like Wilson and Watson, it is something we will have to live with. The question is whether his big plays will outweigh the negative ones in the long run.

My view as well. I've always been less pick adverse than many if they're of an aggressive nature. I have no problem with a more complete Darryl Lamonica.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Are you mental? Your claim was Fields had a better supporting cast. That claim is wrong as Darnold had Juju, Pittman and Jones.

I already said I dont care about draft experts and you respond with draft experts. It is like you are arguing with someone else. You did not ask what draft experts said. You asked what we would do as Pace. The draft experts were wrong about Trubisky over Watson. I was right. So again I dont give a shit about what they say. I am aware draft experts get QB rankings wrong so not sure your point.


I answered your original question as stipulated. Your are moving goalposts now. You asked for our opinion not for what fallible draft experts thought.

So again, Fields can do everything as a passer that Darnold can but he is a better runner and had better production. You have yet to offer a substantive rebuttal to that.

Instead you default to the logical fallacy of appealing to authority except in this case you are relying on draft experts many of whose opinions I do not value so your use of this logical fallacy is worthless. Not only is it an appeal to authority but it is an appeal to false authority as there is little evidence that Kiper or DJ have any special ability to predict QB success.

Argument from authority - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Reading comprehension, never was one of your strong points.

No, I did not ask what you would do, I specifically asked what PACE would do. You know, the same guy that brought you Glennon/Trubisky/Foles/Dalton. Yeah, that QB genius. And I don't give a rats ass what you say you would do after the fact as you try to pretend that having seen Darnold perform over the last three years isn't clouding your judgement.

My rebuttal is Darnold was widely held as a better prospect than Fields. The fact you want to dismiss any opinion pieces by draft pundits on the matter is irrelevant, Many of these same "Draft Experts" had Fields slotted as the 3-5th best QB in this draft as well, and that was further demonstrated correct by the position in which he was taken.

Spare me the fanboi, "He is a Bear now, so he must have been a steal" mentality.

And learn what a fallacy is first before resulting to that argument. Demonstrating an overall consensus by people educated in the field of discussion is not an example of fallacy. Actually, quite the opposite is true, as your trying to make a case that you know more than them, or at least your opinion is a valid as theirs, and you bring with you an opinion of one.

*edit

Typical Remy argument.

1) Change the question
2) Try to anticipate the answer and spew some bullshit why it won't be valid
3) Cherry pick stats that support his argument
4) The accuse the other or moving the goalposts

 

[remydat]

Reading comprehension, never was one of your strong points.

No, I did not ask what you would do, I specifically asked what PACE would do. You know, the same guy that brought you Glennon/Trubisky/Foles/Dalton. Yeah, that QB genius. And I don't give a rats ass what you say you would do after the fact as you try to pretend that having seen Darnold perform over the last three years isn't clouding your judgement.

My rebuttal is Darnold was widely held as a better prospect than Fields. The fact you want to dismiss any opinion pieces by draft pundits on the matter is irrelevant, Many of these same "Draft Experts" had Fields slotted as the 3-5th best QB in this draft as well, and that was further demonstrated correct by the position in which he was taken.

Spare me the fanboi, "He is a Bear now, so he must have been a steal" mentality.

And learn what a fallacy is first before resulting to that argument. Demonstrating an overall consensus by people educated in the field of discussion is not an example of fallacy. Actually, quite the opposite is true, as your trying to make a case that you know more than them, or at least your opinion is a valid as theirs, and you bring with you an opinion of one.

*edit

Typical Remy argument.

1) Change the question
2) Try to anticipate the answer and spew some bullshit why it won't be valid
3) Cherry pick stats that support his argument
4) The accuse the other or moving the goalposts

You are asking us fans which means we will answer based on our opinion of what Pace would do not draft experts. If all you wanted was to regurgitate what experts said then you should not ask the question. Since you did I will answer based on my opinion not yours or theirs.

Yours is an appeal to false authority because:

1) You have offered no actual reason for Darnold to be better beyond experts have said so. That is by definition an appeal to authority.

2) You have offerred no evidence to suggest these exeperts are actually experts as they routinely are wrong about how good a QB will be. What is their success rate in predicting the best QBs?

So again, if I am Pace, I dont make the same mistakes as the past. I take the guy that is just as good a passer who was more productive and who is a much better runner. You have yet to offer anything of substance to dispute this beyond trying to lie and say Fields had better weapons despite Darnold having Juju, Pittman and Jones.

In your own words, explain what makes Darnold better? It is clear you dont really know hence why you were relying on alleged experts.

 

[nc0gnet0]

You are asking us fans which means we will answer based on our opinion of what Pace would do not draft experts. If all you wanted was to regurgitate what experts said then you should not ask the question. Sinxe you did I will answer based on my opinion not yours or theirs.

Yours is an appeal to false authority because:

1) You have offered no actual reason for Darnold to be better beyond experts hace said so.

2) You have offerred no evidence to suggest these exeperts are actually experts as they routinely are wrong about how good a QB will be.

So again, if I am Pace, I dont make the same mistakes as the past. I take the guy that is just as good a passer who was more productive and who is a much better runner. You have yet to offer anything of substance to dispute this beyond trying to lie and say Fields had better weapons despite Darnold having Juju, Pittman and Jones.

In your own words, explain what makes Darnold better?

"If I am Pace."

Yawn

Show me where I once asked that?

It's a moronic opening statement. If you were Pace, and then chose to act in a different manner than Pace, you would not be Pace. Don't bother to try to build an argument when your foundation is shit.

/argument you lose.

 

[remydat]

"If I am Pace."

Yawn

Show me where I once asked that?

It's a moronic opening statement. If you were Pace, and then chose to act in a different manner than Pace, you would not be Pace. Don't bother to try to build an argument when your foundation is shit.

/argument you lose.

Pace picks Fields because Nagy is sold on Fields due to his discussions with Day. Nagy is also sold on Fields because again he can make every throw Darnold can make, is a better runner and had better college production.

Your claim that it is in a different manner than Pace when Pace did in fact chose Fields is fucking moronic. You are literally making up a scenario that did not happen and presuming based on worthless draft experts that your scenario would come to pass when the reality is Pace and Nagy chose Fields.

You need really compelling evidence beyond Mel Kiper had Darnold ranked higher to ignore the actual reality that occurred in this universe where Pace and Nagy did in fact trade up for Fields. The hubris of a Lions fan pretending he knows what Pace would do in an alternate reality when it is quite obvious they loved Fields is amazing.

 

[hyatt151]

Unfortunately that has been disproven many times, but nice try.

True, Lions lost due to terrible defensive play, not because of Stafford