Fire Sale!

Jntg4

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It's a Quade fail to put a #8 or #9 hitter in the #2 spot.

Exactly, so he's still a decent player who would be pretty legit batting 8th, where his OBP will go up. His OBP goes up there because of pitching around him and intentionally walking him to get to the pitcher.
 

Jntg4

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No but he doesn't offer any other offensive value. He has no power as was shown early. And if you can't get on base at an above average rate and you have below average power, that makes you a below average offensive player.

But what CO asked was how can you defend him if he has a 32% OBP... and I said that that OBP isn't really bad... and see my most recent post before this for the rest.
 

Rice Cube

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I think Barney has decent plate discipline that he can take a walk if it's there. The problem is that when he's in the #2 spot and you know he probably won't get more than a base at a time on a ball in play, you might as well pepper the strike zone and hope for the best. That's part of the reason I think he's not walking as much.
 

Jntg4

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Ok, I entered all of our regular starters (injuries aside) into Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis.

Our best lineup this season would have been:
Kosuke Fukudome
Starlin Castro
Carlos Pena
Alfonso Soriano
Marlon Byrd
Geovany Soto
Aramis Ramirez
Darwin Barney
Pitcher (or Barney 9th, Pitcher 8th, I entered fake stats for the pitcher, so IDK, if it is Z, Barney goes 9th)

That would be 4.588 runs/game

Our current line-up (injuries aside) wasn't one of best or worst ones listed, so I'm not sure how it is supposed to be, probably about 4.2. Our worst line-up was 3.929, and Barney was batting second (behind the pitcher though) in some of the worst line-ups.
 

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I wouldn't say ignorant either... if they know how the game works, like sacs are good and stuff, they are normal... while saber knowledge goes towards expertise.

2011 OBP:
Barney: .321
Soriano: .299 (WTF? I didn't think it was that low!)

Sacs are good? That's news to me.

I said walks at the same rate as Soriano, not gets on base. Kudos again on the whole reading thing.

2011 OBP:
Barney: .321
Soriano: .299
NL Average OBP: .319
MLB Average OBP: .320

So he's average, not terrible at getting on.

He is average. However, let's look at OPS or wOBA and you will see that he is below average.

I don't think he is a good fielder for LF. Just because there are other bad fielders playing LF doesn't mean Soriano is good. I say that based upon watching him play. He was always a guy that relied on athleticism more than instincts and not that a lot of that athleticism is gone he looks really bad out there.

Stats also don't paint a pretty picture. UZR of 0.8 is really pretty bad. There are worst ones out there, but he isn't good at fielding. His 4 errors isn't exactly great either with only Juan Pierre having more amongst LFs.

OBP is one of many tools to measure a player's worth. Here is another measure 2011 SLG:
Barney: .359
Soriano: .529

Having a high OBP is always a good thing, and my preference would be to load the team with guys with high OBP. However, it isn't the only necessary skill, and guys that can hit for power have value even if their OBP is really, really low.

I would disagree with that statement. It's all in comparison to the position. In comparison to the position, Soriano is above average.

Yeah, 4 errors is 2nd most for LFers, but consider in relation to Soriano himself. Since 07, he has been worth -7.9 runs because of his errors. The next person... -3.6. He has made 12 more errors than anyone else in LF in that time span. So considering that he has been worth more than -1 runs(-0.9 I believe) from errors, that's really saying something. But, a UZR of 0.8 is average. That's not bad at all.

No that's the only that needs to be said. Pujols has been the best hitter for the last decade. Soto had 2 decent years and 2 crappy years.

I said that he was a beast last year. Not his career.

Braun is NOT a shitty LF. He can hit a lot more than Soriano can dream of. He's not the best fielder, but his bat more than makes up for it.

We're talking about defense here. Bats are irrelevant. Braun is a shitty LFer. He makes Soriano look like a God.

Soriano missed 3 weeks this season. It's like saying Blake Dewitt has 0 errors in the outfield, so therefore he is a good LF

Soriano has also missed time in each of his other seasons with the team.

I think Barney has decent plate discipline that he can take a walk if it's there. The problem is that when he's in the #2 spot and you know he probably won't get more than a base at a time on a ball in play, you might as well pepper the strike zone and hope for the best. That's part of the reason I think he's not walking as much.

Barney said something along the lines of "I take walks in strides." That right there gives me no confidence in his ability to take a walk. I will believe that one when I see it.
 

Jntg4

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Jntg4

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Again, move Barney to 8th and his OBP goes up.
 

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I said that he was a beast last year. Not his career.

OK That makes more sense.

We're talking about defense here. Bats are irrelevant. Braun is a shitty LFer. He makes Soriano look like a God.
Still wrong. Braun is a shitty defender of LF, but not a shitty LF. I'd take Braun and his contract with it to the Cubs for any piece the Cubs have.
 

Jntg4

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Again, move Barney to 8th and his OBP goes up.
 

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Then say he is a shitty defender. He is not a shitty outfielder.

But this has a lot to do with what I was saying about Soriano.

Both Soriano and Braun are bad defenders. However, Soriano is a good LFer, whereas Braun sucks there too. I was saying that Braun is a shitty LF, because he is. When I say I'm talking about defense... I mean that I am talking about defense.
 

bleacherbum54

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But this has a lot to do with what I was saying about Soriano.

Both Soriano and Braun are bad defenders. However, Soriano is a good LFer, whereas Braun sucks there too. I was saying that Braun is a shitty LF, because he is. When I say I'm talking about defense... I mean that I am talking about defense.

Fonso is a shity defender bottom line
 

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Prince Fielder is a shitty hitter. I can say things and not back them up with anything, too. Try backing up what you say with something sometime.
OK Braun has 99% fielding percentage for his career, and Soriano has 97%. Braun is a better LF than Soriano.
 

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Wouldn't use fielding percentage or range factor as the end-all for evaluating defense. It's how Derek Jeter got the Gold Glove last year...anyone really think Jeter's a good shortstop anymore?

You could probably argue that Soriano was a good OF in 2006 and 2007, but every other year? I don't think it works as well.
 

Jntg4

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BJax 2 for 5 with an HR, 2B, and 2 RBI today. Average back up to .273, OBP about .400.

Call him up.
 

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