Game of Thrones Thread

[nc0gnet0]

Bronn is with Jamie. We saw him riding with Jamie and old man Tarley late in the episode. Speaking of old man Tarley, someplace down the road, he's gonna find out that his kid is helping Jon and Cersei and probably wants his sword back

nope, he will never find out.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yeah I grasp what they are asking me to believe, I am saying I think it is ridiculous under any circumstances lol

The "time period".... this is not Earth, it is a fantasy world with Dragons and Ice Zombies.

Regardless of context, women don't get over rape and fall in love at the drop of a hat.... that is a ridiculous concept regardless of context.

your second and third statements contradict themselves, and while I admit it is highly unlikely, it is not completely impossible. In the books I think she is much younger at the time of the Rape.

Time period is still relative to the storyline, as it would correlate to the social climate of our Medieval period

 

[nc0gnet0]

Not being into it and being raped are 2 very different things.... a bad fuck is something you consent to and tough it out.... a rape is something you reject and it is forced upon you.... if she saw what he did as rape she doesn't fall in love with him, that doesn't make sense.

I'm surprised I am the only one thinking this way.... if it affected her so much she yelled it at Jon Snow, it obviously hurt her deep, yet it wasn't so bad cause she fell in love right after.... that does not compute.

Your going to take this into a tangent on what constitutes rape, aren't you?

 

[ShiftyDevil]

• My best guess is Euron's fleet was split in two, otherwise your right. Euron wasn't pictured in Casterly Rock scenes so I am guessing this to be the case.
  It wasn't clear were the attack on Yara's fleet was at, could have been much closer to Dorne, but at the very least he had to travel very close to Dragonstone to bring The sand snakes back to Cersei, so, on that account it makes no sense.
  Was not happy with Bran's scene at all, yikes, creepy indeed, stalker like material there.
  To be honest, that was Jamie that made those plans, not Cersei.
  The Bravos thing is a huge plot hole.

What drives me nuts is that Euron started out in King's Landing when he was buttering up Cersei. From that point no matter what he does he HAS to sail past Dragon Stone. So unless everyone in Danny's administration are complete morons they'd have to know Euron left King's landing and knew which way his ships were going. And it's not like they didn't know Euron was trying to get up in Cersei's business, which means they knew he was the enemy.

It's just such a huge hole it drives me insane. And to get to Casterly Rock you gotta sail around the continent, unless it's possible to go up the river past the Twins, I don't know if that's been covered yet, but, at that point you're taking a whole fleet up a river right through the continent, there's no way you could keep that a secret. Maybe this is bothering me more than it should, but it seems like just mega sloppy writing which makes me wonder about what's going to happen in coming episodes.

It really feels like they're forcing the Lannisters to be scarier than they should be. They're broke, their only allies are Euron and the Tarleys, all of Dorn is against them, all the Northern Houses, they lost the Freys. So really all they have for an actual land army is whatever is in their own garrisons, plus whatever the Tarlys have, but remember the Tarlys were subservient to the Tyrells, so they can't have THAT many dudes. The Lannisters SHOULD get shit stomped but I think the writers are forcing them to be the big bads when it doesn't make any sense at all.

Really feels like the plotting has gone off the rails.

EDIT: And it's not like I noticed a hole no one else has, the banker guy basically told Cersei all this shit so the writers HAVE to know they're forcing shit. Maybe next week's episode will make it all clear. (I hope so, I have really enjoyed GoT thus far, it's other missteps haven't really bothered me and felt minor, not sure why this episode is bothering me so much)

 

[ShiftyDevil]

Not being into it and being raped are 2 very different things.... a bad fuck is something you consent to and tough it out.... a rape is something you reject and it is forced upon you.... if she saw what he did as rape she doesn't fall in love with him, that doesn't make sense.

I'm surprised I am the only one thinking this way.... if it affected her so much she yelled it at Jon Snow, it obviously hurt her deep, yet it wasn't so bad cause she fell in love right after.... that does not compute.

While she ended up falling for Drogo, doesn't change the fact she was sold to him like an object. Which would obviously be incredibly violating. Even if we take the best case scenario of the book where Drogo was a 'decent dude' about it all, he still bought her. I mean, think about it. Drogo was essentially a murderer, thief and slave master, yeah he was nice to Danny, but it was an entirely fucked situation. I can see how she'd be super conflicted about it, no reasonable person would look back on that situation and be all super smiles about it.

 

[Ares]

your second and third statements contradict themselves, and while I admit it is highly unlikely, it is not completely impossible. In the books I think she is much younger at the time of the Rape.

Time period is still relative to the storyline, as it would correlate to the social climate of our Medieval period

Your going to take this into a tangent on what constitutes rape, aren't you?

Nah, I will stay away from that discussion.

She called it rape, she was obviously upset by it, then she fell in love with the dude who raped her (according to the show).... I don't think it makes sense and it contradicts the book.

She does not get raped in the book, she is terrified he is going to savage her but then Drogo is gentle/kind which is why she falls in love with him.

In the show it obviously does not play out that way.

 

[Ares]

While she ended up falling for Drogo, doesn't change the fact she was sold to him like an object. Which would obviously be incredibly violating. Even if we take the best case scenario of the book where Drogo was a 'decent dude' about it all, he still bought her. I mean, think about it. Drogo was essentially a murderer, thief and slave master, yeah he was nice to Danny, but it was an entirely fucked situation. I can see how she'd be super conflicted about it, no reasonable person would look back on that situation and be all super smiles about it.

No doubt about it, but they had her make a point of saying she was raped which naturally leads to "I was raped, but then it was ok and we fell in love"

No matter how you slice this she was sold/enslaved/forced marriage, then according to her she was raped, then she easily fell in love with Drogo.

The course of events don't really make sense now that I am playing them out in my head, they may not have made sense and I glazed over it in the show/book.

 

[Ares]

What drives me nuts is that Euron started out in King's Landing when he was buttering up Cersei. From that point no matter what he does he HAS to sail past Dragon Stone. So unless everyone in Danny's administration are complete morons they'd have to know Euron left King's landing and knew which way his ships were going. And it's not like they didn't know Euron was trying to get up in Cersei's business, which means they knew he was the enemy.

It's just such a huge hole it drives me insane. And to get to Casterly Rock you gotta sail around the continent, unless it's possible to go up the river past the Twins, I don't know if that's been covered yet, but, at that point you're taking a whole fleet up a river right through the continent, there's no way you could keep that a secret. Maybe this is bothering me more than it should, but it seems like just mega sloppy writing which makes me wonder about what's going to happen in coming episodes.

It really feels like they're forcing the Lannisters to be scarier than they should be. They're broke, their only allies are Euron and the Tarleys, all of Dorn is against them, all the Northern Houses, they lost the Freys. So really all they have for an actual land army is whatever is in their own garrisons, plus whatever the Tarlys have, but remember the Tarlys were subservient to the Tyrells, so they can't have THAT many dudes. The Lannisters SHOULD get shit stomped but I think the writers are forcing them to be the big bads when it doesn't make any sense at all.

Really feels like the plotting has gone off the rails.

EDIT: And it's not like I noticed a hole no one else has, the banker guy basically told Cersei all this shit so the writers HAVE to know they're forcing shit. Maybe next week's episode will make it all clear. (I hope so, I have really enjoyed GoT thus far, it's other missteps haven't really bothered me and felt minor, not sure why this episode is bothering me so much)

Just to tack on... was the entire Tyrell army destroyed defending Highgarden or was it not yet mustered or is it off marching to King's Landing while Highgarden falls?

Where is this fucking army that was going to besiege King's Landing for Dany? And how did it miss a big fucking army heading for Highgarden?

EDIT: I didn't state it directly, but if an army big enough to lay siege to King's Landing was defending High Garden, they don't ever storm Highgarden.

Highgarden had to be almost undefended to storm it.... seeing as this is like Middle Age technology, they would have had to lay siege to Highgarden like they did with Riverrun or risk losing most of their troops storming the battlements.

So it leads me to believe Highgarden was left undefended when the army headed to lay siege to King's Landing.... which means a big ass Tyrell army marched off to King's Landing, passed the Tarly/Lannister Army (apparently all the Tarly forces wore Lannister red btw) and just waved as they went by like

"Hey there Lannisters, where u off to? Not to siege Highgarden right?"

 

[nc0gnet0]

What drives me nuts is that Euron started out in King's Landing when he was buttering up Cersei. From that point no matter what he does he HAS to sail past Dragon Stone. So unless everyone in Danny's administration are complete morons they'd have to know Euron left King's landing and knew which way his ships were going. And it's not like they didn't know Euron was trying to get up in Cersei's business, which means they knew he was the enemy.

True, hard to believe he sailed into dragonstone undetected, it's possible, but hard to believe they wouldn't have had patrols. The distance between dragonstone and KL is roughly 200-250 miles.

It's just such a huge hole it drives me insane. And to get to Casterly Rock you gotta sail around the continent, unless it's possible to go up the river past the Twins, I don't know if that's been covered yet, but, at that point you're taking a whole fleet up a river right through the continent, there's no way you could keep that a secret. Maybe this is bothering me more than it should, but it seems like just mega sloppy writing which makes me wonder about what's going to happen in coming episodes.

The iron islands and Castelry rock are actually pretty close, again, Euron split up his fleet. Now, had Euron been pictured in the ambush of the unsullied ships, then you have a point.

It really feels like they're forcing the Lannisters to be scarier than they should be. They're broke, their only allies are Euron and the Tarleys, all of Dorn is against them, all the Northern Houses, they lost the Freys. So really all they have for an actual land army is whatever is in their own garrisons, plus whatever the Tarlys have, but remember the Tarlys were subservient to the Tyrells, so they can't have THAT many dudes. The Lannisters SHOULD get shit stomped but I think the writers are forcing them to be the big bads when it doesn't make any sense at all.

The lannisters had the second largest army in Westeros, but the best trained army. Not sure how losing the Tarley faction hurt the reach's numbers, but Tarley was the general, and his forces were essentially intermingled with the reach forces when they turned on them. But i will agree, it does seem a bit of a stretch, but then again Dany hasn't mobilized her biggest force yet.

Really feels like the plotting has gone off the rails.

It's starting to feel a bit rushed, that's for sure.

 

[Ares]

True, hard to believe he sailed into dragonstone undetected, it's possible, but hard to believe they wouldn't have had patrols. The distance between dragonstone and KL is roughly 200-250 miles.



The iron islands and Castelry rock are actually pretty close, again, Euron split up his fleet. Now, had Euron been pictured in the ambush of the unsullied ships, then you have a point.



The lannisters had the second largest army in Westeros, but the best trained army. Not sure how losing the Tarley faction hurt the reach's numbers, but Tarley was the general, and his forces were essentially intermingled with the reach forces when they turned on them. But i will agree, it does seem a bit of a stretch, but then again Dany hasn't mobilized her biggest force yet.



It's starting to feel a bit rushed, that's for sure.

7 episodes instead of 10.... I presume budget reasons.

And keep in mind they are now writing it themselves, not adapting RR Martin's writing into episodes.

RR Martin gave them the basic outline of how he intends to finish the story, but they don't have his last 2 books in front of them where they can just read his writing, condense it for the TV series, and then chop it up into episodes.

They have to take a basic outline from him, turn it into detailed episodes, and then produce the episodes.

I am not surprised it feels a bit rushed/choppy TBH.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Just to tack on... was the entire Tyrell army destroyed defending Highgarden or was it not yet mustered or is it off marching to King's Landing while Highgarden falls?

Where is this fucking army that was going to besiege King's Landing for Dany? And how did it miss a big fucking army heading for Highgarden?

EDIT: I didn't state it directly, but if an army big enough to lay siege to King's Landing was defending High Garden, they don't ever storm Highgarden.

Highgarden had to be almost undefended to storm it.... seeing as this is like Middle Age technology, they would have had to lay siege to Highgarden like they did with Riverrun or risk losing most of their troops storming the battlements.

So it leads me to believe Highgarden was left undefended when the army headed to lay siege to King's Landing.... which means a big ass Tyrell army marched off to King's Landing, passed the Tarly/Lannister Army (apparently all the Tarly forces wore Lannister red btw) and just waved as they went by like

"Hey there Lannisters, where u off to? Not to siege Highgarden right?"

The show didn't do a very good job of describing how things went down, not at all. It is my understanding, the Reach had mobilized it forces and started to march towards KL. These forces, included the Tarleys and a few other small vassel houses of the Reach that we saw meeting Jamie and Cersei in episode 2. So, ,lets say you have 10K forces from the Reach marching towards KL, but of those 10k, 3k are traitors (Tarley's/etc). They encounter the Lannister forces just outside of the Reach, waiting in ambush, and then, the Tarley forces themselves turn on the loyal forces of the reach. It would be a massacre. It was a betrayal much like the red wedding, they just didn't show it.

And, it was the Reach and Dorne forces together that would assault KL.

One huge plot hole however, would be for them to execute this plan, they would have essentially had to have left KL undefended, which seems a bit nuts considering there is a huge dothraki force just off there shores, not to mention 3 dragons.

 

[nc0gnet0]

7 episodes instead of 10.... I presume budget reasons.

And keep in mind they are now writing it themselves, not adapting RR Martin's writing into episodes.

RR Martin gave them the basic outline of how he intends to finish the story, but they don't have his last 2 books in front of them where they can just read his writing, condense it for the TV series, and then chop it up into episodes.

They have to take a basic outline from him, turn it into detailed episodes, and then produce the episodes.

I am not surprised it feels a bit rushed/choppy TBH.

One thing it is not is buget restrained lol, unless they are saving up for a few huge episodes (budget wise). I just think D & D are wanting to get it finished to move on.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/31/hbo...-thrones-episode-script.html?_source=facebook

 

[number51]

7 episodes instead of 10.... I presume budget reasons.

The last two seasons were always set to be a total of 13 episodes. I believe they considered making it one 13 E last season but went with S7 7 episodes, S8 6 episodes.

If this was about making money they would have dragged it out to two 10 episode seasons. That would have sucked harder than the current pace. Like I said I enjoyed the episode, at the time I was bothered by none of the flaws mentioned. The Bran thing is fucked up, but the military inconsistencies don't bother me at all.

If TV show Dany says she was raped, I believer her. She certainly felt used and abused, did not enjoy her wedding night. She was the one getting boned, she can call it whatever she wants. Could she later come to love her attacker, she did on the show. Is that a flaw, Ares hates it, i don't love it, but I can look past it.

 

[Ares]

One thing it is not is buget restrained lol, unless they are saving up for a few huge episodes (budget wise). I just think D & D are wanting to get it finished to move on.

I keep hearing they are budget restrained, Game of Thrones does not have the budget you might think.

Like people are saying Ghost has been entirely absent in Jon's scenes because it saves money.... apparently the CGI Direwolves are very expensive.

If it isn't budget, then why 7 episodes and 6 for the final season?

They are obviously rushing things.... leaving plot holes.... not showing things happening (assuming the Lannister/Tarly ambush happened as you described)

If you have the money to produce more episodes and better tell the story, why not do it? Hell why not milk it for 3 more seasons instead of 2?

RR Martin isn't gonna write the last 2 books in a couple hundred pages, they will be as massive as his other books....

Gotta remember GoT is on HBO.... they don't get ad revenue.... their budget is w/e it is.... HBO doesn't have a huge incentive to break the bank producing GoT.... they know people will want to see it regardless and no matter how popular it gets, they won't get a ton more revenue off the episodes since there is no ad revenue.

If GoT was a show on AMC or one of the cable networks.... its budget would have gotten huge by now.

EDIT: GoT has 10M per episode which is pretty high.... maybe not high enough because of a a variety of unique costs to GoT?

I am guessing HBO puts out the money, but perhaps this is why they limited the episodes.... 70M this year 60M next year instead of 100M each year they were spending.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

I keep hearing they are budget restrained, Game of Thrones does not have the budget you might think.

Like people are saying Ghost has been entirely absent in Jon's scenes because it saves money.... apparently the CGI Direwolves are very expensive.

If it isn't budget, then why 7 episodes and 6 for the final season?

They are obviously rushing things.... leaving plot holes.... not showing things happening (assuming the Lannister/Tarly ambush happened as you described)

If you have the money to produce more episodes and better tell the story, why not do it? Hell why not milk it for 3 more seasons instead of 2?

RR Martin isn't gonna write the last 2 books in a couple hundred pages, they will be as massive as his other books....

Gotta remember GoT is on HBO.... they don't get ad revenue.... their budget is w/e it is.... HBO doesn't have a huge incentive to break the bank producing GoT.... they know people will want to see it regardless and no matter how popular it gets, they won't get a ton more revenue off the episodes since there is no ad revenue.

If GoT was a show on AMC or one of the cable networks.... its budget would have gotten huge by now.

I'm pretty sure these shorter seasons are for two intertwined reasons. Martin only has the outlines of the end game of the series, which means they can't get to 20 episodes unless they really stretch stuff, and HBO wants two seasons because GoT gets subscribers.

I don't think it has anything to do with budget, but rather not enough content for two whole seasons, but too much for one, and that's perfectly find with HBO.

 

[Ares]

The last two seasons were always set to be a total of 13 episodes. I believe they considered making it one 13 E last season but went with S7 7 episodes, S8 6 episodes.

If this was about making money they would have dragged it out to two 10 episode seasons. That would have sucked harder than the current pace. Like I said I enjoyed the episode, at the time I was bothered by none of the flaws mentioned. The Bran thing is fucked up, but the military inconsistencies don't bother me at all.

If TV show Dany says she was raped, I believer her. She certainly felt used and abused, did not enjoy her wedding night. She was the one getting boned, she can call it whatever she wants. Could she later come to love her attacker, she did on the show. Is that a flaw, Ares hates it, i don't love it, but I can look past it.

I do hate it.... in large part because they already trampled on the book story of how her and Drogo fell in love, but now they kick Drogo's corpse while he already dead.

poor ded Drogo

 

[Ares]

I'm pretty sure these shorter seasons are for two intertwined reasons. Martin only has the outlines of the end game of the series, which means they can't get to 20 episodes unless they really stretch stuff, and HBO wants two seasons because GoT gets subscribers.

I don't think it has anything to do with budget, but rather not enough content for two whole seasons, but too much for one, and that's perfectly find with HBO.

I am inclined to agree....

But I do feel like this season has more holes than others and idk if it is rushed writing or what.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

The show didn't do a very good job of describing how things went down, not at all. It is my understanding, the Reach had mobilized it forces and started to march towards KL. These forces, included the Tarleys and a few other small vassel houses of the Reach that we saw meeting Jamie and Cersei in episode 2. So, ,lets say you have 10K forces from the Reach marching towards KL, but of those 10k, 3k are traitors (Tarley's/etc). They encounter the Lannister forces just outside of the Reach, waiting in ambush, and then, the Tarley forces themselves turn on the loyal forces of the reach. It would be a massacre. It was a betrayal much like the red wedding, they just didn't show it.

And, it was the Reach and Dorne forces together that would assault KL.

One huge plot hole however, would be for them to execute this plan, they would have essentially had to have left KL undefended, which seems a bit nuts considering there is a huge dothraki force just off there shores, not to mention 3 dragons.

I might need to rewatch the first two episodes, but I was also under the impression that the Dornish + the Tyrells and their bannermen were meeting up to prepare to fuck up King's Landing, and that Yara was sailing to hook up with this whole group.

Yara got her shit rocked, but the missing Tyrell/Dorn army is MIA. I feel like they only showed us half of what they needed to last night. Also, why the hell didn't Danny blockade Blackwater Bay?

Also, Euron's second fleet shit rocked the ships the Unsullied sailed on, why in the hell would you wait for the Unsullied to make their beach landing THEN attack the ships. In the episode we clearly see Euron's fleet winning that fight, so why not sink the boats with the Unsullied on them? It's not like the Unsullied would have helped in a navel battle. This whole gambit with Casterly Rock feels super forced and really dumb.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I keep hearing they are budget restrained, Game of Thrones does not have the budget you might think.

Like people are saying Ghost has been entirely absent in Jon's scenes because it saves money.... apparently the CGI Direwolves are very expensive.

If it isn't budget, then why 7 episodes and 6 for the final season?

They are obviously rushing things.... leaving plot holes.... not showing things happening (assuming the Lannister/Tarly ambush happened as you described)

If you have the money to produce more episodes and better tell the story, why not do it? Hell why not milk it for 3 more seasons instead of 2?

RR Martin isn't gonna write the last 2 books in a couple hundred pages, they will be as massive as his other books....

Gotta remember GoT is on HBO.... they don't get ad revenue.... their budget is w/e it is.... HBO doesn't have a huge incentive to break the bank producing GoT.... they know people will want to see it regardless and no matter how popular it gets, they won't get a ton more revenue off the episodes since there is no ad revenue.

If GoT was a show on AMC or one of the cable networks.... its budget would have gotten huge by now.

EDIT: GoT has 10M per episode which is pretty high.... maybe not high enough because of a a variety of unique costs to GoT?

I am guessing HBO puts out the money, but perhaps this is why they limited the episodes.... 70M this year 60M next year instead of 100M each year they were spending.

I'm pretty sure these shorter seasons are for two intertwined reasons. Martin only has the outlines of the end game of the series, which means they can't get to 20 episodes unless they really stretch stuff, and HBO wants two seasons because GoT gets subscribers.

I don't think it has anything to do with budget, but rather not enough content for two whole seasons, but too much for one, and that's perfectly find with HBO.

Shifty nailed it. They plain ran out of material as Grmm stoped writing. 2016 budget was 10 mill per episode, this year I heard it approached 12-13mil. I don't think GRRM will ever finish the books to be honest, and HBO already has 4 spin-offs in the works, so there is no need to stretch it out.

Plot holes started popping up like crazy as soon as they ran out of published material.

and by the way, it is estimated that GOT generates somewhere near 1 billion in revenue a year for HBO.